First Time Buyer Research (GTI/R)

[KayN920]

Hey guys, first post here and a newbie to the forum...seems to be a very active community, which is great! Hopefully, I'll be able to join this community in the near future.

Let me start by saying that I've never owned a Golf (or any other VW cars for that matter) before so my knowledge of the car is very minimal. I currently drive a TL, which is an alright car that gets the job done but is really missing the whole notion of "fun". As such, I've started looking into buying a new car which will serve as my new long term daily driver, the occasional (3-5 sessions per year, maybe more if it's not too hard on my wallet) track day fun and a return into the world of AutoX. With that said, I've considered quite a few other options but so far, the GTI/R seems to be checking the most boxes for me, starting with the DSG. Word around town is that in the price range, that transmission is one of the best, if not the best out there. That alone put it at the top of my list because I don't want a MT. So here are some questions that I have for now.

- I'm probably going with a used model (model year 17-19), besides some of the obvious "general/usual" concerns that usually come into play when buying a used car, what are some things that are specific to the MK7 that I should absolutely keep an eye out for when I start looking for my GTI or R?
- It seems like the GTI is the more popular model based on what I've seen online and out on the road. Is it really that much more fun or better than the R or is it just a matter of price difference or perhaps just personal preference?
- Looking at just the basic stats, I'm kinda leaning more toward the R since it has more power and is AWD which would be quite useful during the snowy winters here in Canada. However, In some online reviews, they are saying that because of the AWD system in the car, the R is a lot heavier than the GTI therefore is not as nimble to drive and that the system really hampers the car performance around the track, is that true? If so, are those points really that noticeable when driving the car?
- For anyone who tracks their GTI/R with a DSG gearbox, does it suffer from any overheating issues after running a few laps? Would adding more cooling be a mod that I would need to look into if I do want to track the GTI/R with a DSG?
- When it comes to consumables (brake pads, tires etc), how does the GTI/R hold up? I know some cars go through those items like there's no tomorrow even when you try to "baby" them on track.
- Is the GTI/R an easy or difficult car to work on? I do like to tinker on my cars every now and then so just trying to get an idea of what to expect.
- How's the aftermarket support for the 17-19 model year?

I'm sorry if some of those questions have probably been asked before but I've tried searching through the forum but just found myself going down a rabbit hole so I figured I'd just post this and ask. Would really appreciate some feedback, even if it is just a link to another thread that may already have the answers to the above questions.

 

[Jumpy]

Just want to point out that 2017 is Mk7, while 2018-20 is Mk7.5

 

[PLF8593]

1. I currently drive a TL, which is an alright car that gets the job done but is really missing the whole notion of "fun".
2. starting with the DSG. Word around town is that in the price range, that transmission is one of the best, if not the best out there.

3. I'm probably going with a used model (model year 17-19), besides some of the obvious "general/usual" concerns that usually come into play when buying a used car, what are some things that are specific to the MK7 that I should absolutely keep an eye out for when I start looking for my GTI or R?
4. It seems like the GTI is the more popular model based on what I've seen online and out on the road. Is it really that much more fun or better than the R or is it just a matter of price difference or perhaps just personal preference?
5. However, In some online reviews, they are saying that because of the AWD system in the car, the R is a lot heavier than the GTI therefore is not as nimble to drive and that the system really hampers the car performance around the track, is that true?
6. For anyone who tracks their GTI/R with a DSG gearbox, does it suffer from any overheating issues after running a few laps? Would adding more cooling be a mod that I would need to look into if I do want to track the GTI/R with DSG?
7. When it comes to consumables (brake pads, tires etc), how does the GTI/R hold up? I know some cars go through those items like there's no tomorrow even when you try to "baby" them on track.
8. Is the GTI/R an easy or difficult car to work on? I do like to tinker on my cars every now and then so just trying to get an idea of what to expect.
9. How's the aftermarket support for the 17-19 model year?

1. What model year TL? The 2009+ generation is a grandpa car that’s ugly, slow, and inefficient. I LOVE the 07-08 ones though, especially the Type-S. Fantastic cars imo

2. You’re correct, the DSG is arguably the best automatic transmission for under 50K in the last 20 years.

3. Since you’re looking at DSG models, I would just make sure the DSG was flushed on a car that has over 40K miles. Verify via carfax. Frankly, other than that there isn’t anything to “watch out for.” These cars don’t have inherent problems which is real nice compared to the MK5/6 gens (so many design flaws).

4. lol, it’s 99% cost and 1% preference. I’m sure MOST people would get a Golf R over a GTI if they could afford a 45K AWD GTi (which is what an R is, lol). There are definitely those who prefer GTI for how “flickable” it is, but 99% of folks either A) can’t afford a 45K car, or B) can, but don’t see the VALUE in paying 45K for an AWD GTI, when they just don’t need the AWD.

5. This is horseshit lol, I have owned 2 MK7 GTIs, both manual and DSG, and now I have an Alltrack (so, same bones as a Golf R, just diff engine/suspension), and the Alltrack drives so much better than either of my GTIs. The AWD only helps, it doesn’t take away from anything. It helps rotate the car great around highway ramps and low-speed, 2nd gear turns.

6. Unless you’re going superduperduper hard on your car, no you don’t need an aux DSG cooler. Most people do fine without it

7. I mean, the track is the track. It’s the most intense conditions possible for brakes, and performance brakes are NOT designed for longevity, lol. If you wanna track, be prepared to change pads every couple track days. That said - for daily driving, if you take advantage of the DSG’s engine braking capabilities, you can make the OEM pads/rotors last 80K+ miles. I was at 90K on originally pads/rotors when I traded my 2015 GTI in 3 months ago.

8. Yes, very easy to work on.

9. There’s two pieces to this question: you said “17-19 model years.” Well, the 17 model year is the last year of the pre-facelift MK7 (2015-2017), and 2018-19 is the MK7.5 gen. There ARE distinct differences (6 vs 7 speed DSG, different ECUs, different VCDS coding pathways, etc).

The aftermarket support for the 17 is better than the 18/19, as the newer ECUs couldn’t be cracked for a long time, even by APR. simply put, the 17’s have a wider swath of options, and the 18-19’s have a smaller pool of options.

Regardless, aftermarket support is fantastic on the Golf platform in general so I wouldn’t really base my decision on that. There’s still better aftermarket support for the 18-19 GTI than whatever model year TL you own.

My opinion: if you’re mainly a DD, get a MK7.5. The 7 speed DSG is better than the 6-speed for daily driving. But if you’re a real performance freak the 6-speed is more reliable, tried-and-true (they haven’t changed it aside from manufacturing updates for QC since 05)

 

[vj123]

Welcome to the forum.

- I'm probably going with a used model (model year 17-19), besides some of the obvious "general/usual" concerns that usually come into play when buying a used car, what are some things that are specific to the MK7 that I should absolutely keep an eye out for when I start looking for my GTI or R?

MY2018+ will get you the MK7 facelift with updated features. MK7 is a reliable platform and there isnt too many concerns. Most common issue is with sunroof and MY2019 had stalling issues with MT.

- It seems like the GTI is the more popular model based on what I've seen online and out on the road. Is it really that much more fun or better than the R or is it just a matter of price difference or perhaps just personal preference?
- Looking at just the basic stats, I'm kinda leaning more toward the R since it has more power and is AWD which would be quite useful during the snowy winters here in Canada. However, In some online reviews, they are saying that because of the AWD system in the car, the R is a lot heavier than the GTI therefore is not as nimble to drive and that the system really hampers the car performance around the track, is that true? If so, are those points really that noticeable when driving the car?

GTI is much more nimble than a R. I have owned two MK7 GTIs and have a better fun / money ratio. R is a great vehicle but i could not justify myself spending the extra money. Can i afford one? yes. Would i buy one? no. Finally, its a matter of personal preference. GTI with a set of snow tires handles MI winters perfectly.

- For anyone who tracks their GTI/R with a DSG gearbox, does it suffer from any overheating issues after running a few laps? Would adding more cooling be a mod that I would need to look into if I do want to track the GTI/R with a DSG?
- When it comes to consumables (brake pads, tires etc), how does the GTI/R hold up? I know some cars go through those items like there's no tomorrow even when you try to "baby" them on track.

Plenty of people track their GTIs / Rs and adding an intercooler will help cooling. Consumables cost like any other VW and you are not going to pay a premium like the big german threes.

- How's the aftermarket support for the 17-19 model year?

Lots of people DYI their mods on their vehicles and plenty of info is out there in several sections of this forum.

- How's the aftermarket support for the 17-19 model year?

There might be more options with pre facelift MYs (before 2018) but most aftermarket companies would develop their products for MY2018+ in coming years as thats a huge market in coming years as well.

Most of your questions would have discussions / answers in the forum and search function might be your best friend.

Good luck with your search.

 

[jimlloyd40]

1. What model year TL? The 2009+ generation is a grandpa car that’s ugly, slow, and inefficient. I LOVE the 07-08 ones though, especially the Type-S. Fantastic cars imo

2. You’re correct, the DSG is arguably the best automatic transmission for under 50K in the last 20 years.

3. Since you’re looking at DSG models, I would just make sure the DSG was flushed on a car that has over 40K miles. Verify via carfax. Frankly, other than that there isn’t anything to “watch out for.” These cars don’t have inherent problems which is real nice compared to the MK5/6 gens (so many design flaws).

4. lol, it’s 99% cost and 1% preference. I’m sure MOST people would get a Golf R over a GTI if they could afford a 45K AWD GTi (which is what an R is, lol). There are definitely those who prefer GTI for how “flickable” it is, but 99% of folks either A) can’t afford a 45K car, or B) can, but don’t see the VALUE in paying 45K for an AWD GTI, when they just don’t need the AWD.

5. This is horseshit lol, I have owned 2 MK7 GTIs, both manual and DSG, and now I have an Alltrack (so, same bones as a Golf R, just diff engine/suspension), and the Alltrack drives so much better than either of my GTIs. The AWD only helps, it doesn’t take away from anything. It helps rotate the car great around highway ramps and low-speed, 2nd gear turns.

6. Unless you’re going superduperduper hard on your car, no you don’t need an aux DSG cooler. Most people do fine without it

7. I mean, the track is the track. It’s the most intense conditions possible for brakes, and performance brakes are NOT designed for longevity, lol. If you wanna track, be prepared to change pads every couple track days. That said - for daily driving, if you take advantage of the DSG’s engine braking capabilities, you can make the OEM pads/rotors last 80K+ miles. I was at 90K on originally pads/rotors when I traded my 2015 GTI in 3 months ago.

8. Yes, very easy to work on.

9. There’s two pieces to this question: you said “17-19 model years.” Well, the 17 model year is the last year of the pre-facelift MK7 (2015-2017), and 2018-19 is the MK7.5 gen. There ARE distinct differences (6 vs 7 speed DSG, different ECUs, different VCDS coding pathways, etc).

The aftermarket support for the 17 is better than the 18/19, as the newer ECUs couldn’t be cracked for a long time, even by APR. simply put, the 17’s have a wider swath of options, and the 18-19’s have a smaller pool of options.

Regardless, aftermarket support is fantastic on the Golf platform in general so I wouldn’t really base my decision on that. There’s still better aftermarket support for the 18-19 GTI than whatever model year TL you own.

My opinion: if you’re mainly a DD, get a MK7.5. The 7 speed DSG is better than the 6-speed for daily driving. But if you’re a real performance freak the 6-speed is more reliable, tried-and-true (they haven’t changed it aside from manufacturing updates for QC since 05)

I won't go over all your points but two that I will mention is that the GTI is definitely more nimble than the R and I have a MK7.5 18 SE and it has the 6 speed DSG.

 

[KevinC]

GTI is much more nimble than a R.

Advice to OP: scour the forums here and at vwvortex, and watch YouTube reviews from the reputable reviewers - generally meaning the ones with a high subscriber count (Scotty Kilmer being a notable exception!). Here are a few to get you started...

Savagegeese on the GTI:

Savagegeese on the R:

TheStraightPipes on the R, manual vs DSG:

TFL on GTI vs R:

 

[jimlloyd40]

Advice to OP: scour the forums here and at vwvortex, and watch YouTube reviews from the reputable reviewers - generally meaning the ones with a high subscriber count (Scotty Kilmer being a notable exception!). Here are a few to get you started...

Savagegeese on the GTI:

Savagegeese on the R:

TheStraightPipes on the R, manual vs DSG:

TFL on GTI vs R:

No time to watch all of those but I assume you are disagreeing with the GTI being more nimble. Throttle House is a reputable reviewer and they say the GTI is more nimble.

 

[GolfR-BA]

I would suggest discounting the GTI owner input in the R. I’ve owned both. The diff in nimbleness is is not drastic. The R feels and is a higher performance vehicle.

 

[jimlloyd40]

I would suggest discounting the GTI owner input in the R. I’ve owned both. The diff in nimbleness is is not drastic. The R feels and is a higher performance vehicle.

How would you know if the GTI input isn't from people who have also owned R's? Stock the R is higher performance but the GTI has the same potential.

 

[vj123]

OP had tons of questions and i wonder why last two responders (R owners) have nothing to contribute to this thread other than responding to one single sentence of mine.

I didnt quote anyones post above mine about GTIs but just shared my opinion and responded to lot of other questions from OP as well.

 

[GolfR-BA]

How would you know if the GTI input isn't from people who have also owned R's? Stock the R is higher performance but the GTI has the same potential.

You seem to be nitpicking what I said. If a person owned both a GTI and R as I have then I’d take their input over a person who only owned a GTI.
And a GTI will never accelerate out of a tight turn or from a start like an R. The R’s AWD gets knocked a lot, but it really hooks up compared to FWD.

 

[DarkArrow]

As an R owner, I don't see why it's so hard to believe a smaller turbo and lighter weight would make the GTI feel more nimble when the platforms are so similar.

 

[JerseyDrew77]

You seem to be nitpicking what I said. If a person owned both a GTI and R as I have then I’d take their input over a person who only owned a GTI.
And a GTI will never accelerate out of a tight turn or from a start like an R. The R’s AWD gets knocked a lot, but it really hooks up compared to FWD.

Well duh, any car with AWD will hook up better than FWD and RWD. If you want to see what a real AWD platform can do, go drive an EVO.

 

[GolfR-BA]

Op, GTI/R, DSG/manual trans and oil have derailed many a thread. Sorry if my opinion derailed yours. Fine the right vehicle to buy and you should be happy with either car.

 

[eajr]

IMHO a Gti/R will be an investment that I promise you wont regret. Short and simple.