Everbody's second favorite topic...yet another WHICH CLUTCH???

[dunkelweizen]

The stage 3 ringer is rated to 575 lb ft... even with the hybrid disk, the pedal will still be stiffer than the Sachs SRE with it's matching organic disk, right ?

edit: That one is rated for a lot less, <405 lb ft.... Do we know if all the ringer disks come sprung? that's a nice touch, I might get it over the SRE just for that...

Weird thing is the same stage 3 setup on the Ringer website has it at 475 lb/ft... It is the EQT website that has it listed at 575 lb/ft. Not sure what/why the discrepancy.

And according to Ringer's website, they do have a sprung disc, but only for SMF. If using factory DMF, it is unsprung.

I had my mind made up to get the TTRS PP & Sachs SRE organic disc like @jaystonewee, but now I think @El_bigote_AJ and @RudyH have talked me into going with Ringer Stage 3 if it is factory or TTRS/Sachs like for driveability and feel.

 

[El_bigote_AJ]

Yeah I went over that with eqt before cause they got stuff listed goofy.

much better to go by ringers site.

from what I’ve read the stage 3 and 4 has a softer pedal than Sachs SRE with the ringer HD plate (same plate used in clutch master fx-kits so I can say that pedal not bad or heavy at all)
Stage 3+ is a organic hybrid dics with a XX pressure plate,
stage 4 is HD plate with a gripper disc since it’s feramic on both sides.
Then 5 is the XX plate with the feramic disc.


Yeah the smf kit has a sprung disc to help with the vibrations since you dump the springs in the DMF… I have the dmf kit with the unsprung disc.

 

[hans611]

... I decided to go with the stage 5 to be fully sure it would hold as the stage 4 used the same pressure plate that was on my fx500 so I wanted to worried about pedal pressure. So I went with the stage 5, it’s all broken in now and I can say it’s an absolute blast to drive that has fit my needs perfect since I wanted my cake and to eat it, it’s grabby since it’s sinistered metal/ceramic but it’s full faced so it still really easy to be smooth, it’s within 10% of the noise levels as factory and holds the power with ease, and quick shifts soo much better than the dkm ever could.

only thing is the pedal is very stiff and will kick your ass after and long city commute lol. But that’s expected as a stage 5.

from what I’ve read the stage 3 and 4 has a softer pedal than Sachs SRE with the ringer HD plate (same plate used in clutch master fx-kits so I can say that pedal not bad or heavy at all)
Stage 3+ is a organic hybrid dics with a XX pressure plate,
stage 4 is HD plate with a gripper disc since it’s feramic on both sides.
Then 5 is the XX plate with the feramic disc.

So the Stage 5 pedal is a lot stiffer than the one on the Stage 3 / Stage 4 kit....? "Not bad or heavy at all" vs "Very stiff"
Hmmm so all things considered, I might try the stage 4 then, as I plan to stay with my IS38...

Do you think the stage 4 with the full feramic disk but weaker PP will be easier to slip for slow speed driving / traffic / parking lot / backing out etc, than the stage 5 with the stiffer PP?
Logic tells me the weaker PP will allow more slip, and the much lighter pedal will allow better modulation / control.....

 

[El_bigote_AJ]

So the Stage 5 pedal is a lot stiffer than the one on the Stage 3 / Stage 4 kit....? "Not bad or heavy at all" vs "Very stiff"
Hmmm so all things considered, I might try the stage 4 then, as I plan to stay with my IS38...

Do you think the stage 4 with the full feramic disk but weaker PP will be easier to slip for slow speed driving / traffic / parking lot / backing out etc, than the stage 5 with the stiffer PP?
Logic tells me the weaker PP will allow more slip, and the much lighter pedal will allow better modulation / control.....

Yeah the pedal is pretty heavy compared to stock for sure , but easily manageable in the stage 5 (3+ Would be the same)

Yes the softer pedal will be easier for sure, when I had the fx500 I never had issues with the pedal feel for slow speed slip type movement it was just that the disc being Full ceramic and puck style was the fighting element - it forced you to being either on or off the grab point and it would judder like crazy of you tried to fight that, lol.

is38 I would for sure just do stage 4.

this is a stage 4 disc after 63k on a big turbo set up… tons of meat left.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CMr9uCznKAy/?igshid=1d0wtnd3gyhv0

 

[PowerDemon]

Idk why everyone is getting into “stage 9” clutches and beyond... Stock motor takes about ~400wtq reliably so you most likely won’t go beyond that. So 450-475tq at the crank? So let’s be generous and say you need 500ft lbs of capacity. That’s Ringers stage 3+ clutch at best. I have no idea why you guys think you needs all this clutch capacity... Y’all wildin.

 

[the]

That’s Ringers stage 3+ clutch at best

Looks like a material concern to me. Not about holding the power, but longevity of the hardware

 

[hans611]

Idk why everyone is getting into “stage 9” clutches and beyond... Stock motor takes about ~400wtq reliably so you most likely won’t go beyond that. So 450-475tq at the crank? So let’s be generous and say you need 500ft lbs of capacity. That’s Ringers stage 3+ clutch at best. I have no idea why you guys think you needs all this clutch capacity... Y’all wildin.

El Bigote answered it a few pages ago imo, he puts its pretty well:

I’ve said it before with clutch ratings and assumed “xxx” holding. That’s not a set in stone number… the manufactures didn’t have a way to specifically pinpoint what xxxx weight PP + xx friction coefficient rated disc can hold exactly hold as driving conditions play a bigger role in this. A stage 3 clutch that’s said to hold say 475 is rated at the flywheel and it’s not accounting for how each car hits that assumed 475… a hybrid car in corn hits max TQ very abrupt and rapid.

if you are set in SMF and soundbend at least get the endurance as the headroom is important on these cars when build with such and strong power band.

I was torn between the SRE and the TTRS... but its been made pretty clear around here they dont even take spicy IS38 tunes well.... im not gonna spend 3 grand and then still have to baby around my clutch..... So this Ringer Racing one seems like the perfect solution, I had stumbled on Rudy's build before and seen him recommending it.

El Bigote's experience with the stage 3 / 4 PP pedal (on the clutchmaster's) being actually decent and similar to the SRE and TTRS, kinda of a great option... Honestly I don't get the hybrid disks, it just makes no sense to have two different materials slipping/clamping and wearing down at different rates.... if i'm going for the ceramic/feramic, might as well all the way.

The lighter PP on the stage 4 also means the thrust bearing is under less stress... dont think is a good idea to have such strong pressure plates.....

This Stage 4 kinda seems the one for me with my IS38....

 

[El_bigote_AJ]

Idk why everyone is getting into “stage 9” clutches and beyond... Stock motor takes about ~400wtq reliably so you most likely won’t go beyond that. So 450-475tq at the crank? So let’s be generous and say you need 500ft lbs of capacity. That’s Ringers stage 3+ clutch at best. I have no idea why you guys think you needs all this clutch capacity... Y’all wildin.

The reason you don’t know why, is probably cause you don’t know how these ratings are even conceived by the various manufactures, lol. Let alone The whole “stage” system has not real continuity across brands or platforms it’s just a product filing method,haha.

I went with a “stage 9” because I have PERSONAL experience with the HD plate used on the stage 3 and 4. And after discussing and showing mike and ringer what happened with the fx500 he suggested I go with 5, I mean 9,

 

[PowerDemon]

I understand “stage x” does not mean everything, I just don’t understand why someone needs or wants a clutch rated for 650lb ft on a car that makes maybe 500lb ft lol. I understand having a little extra is a good thing but I think your bottom end is going to go far sooner than that clutch pushing 500lb ft consistently. My 2c

 

[El_bigote_AJ]

The lighter PP on the stage 4 also means the thrust bearing is under less stress... dont think is a good idea to have such strong pressure plates.....

Yeah, that’s always a concern when I start the car each morning lol. But the same can be said about a SMF….the cars drivetrain was alway built around and bulky but efficient (in respects to vibration dampening) DMF, so the theory that a SMF being mixed into the picture now become a cause extra vibrations and shock from the rest of the drivetrain that are now transmitted to the thrust bearing and further exasperate the variances in the materials that cause the bearing to fail and allow the play in it enough to the let the crank move more that it’s got got clearances for.

while we all know crank walk has happened on car with even stock setups - the continuity that’s always there with the dkm and southbend cars that had crank walk was not just the PPs high load rating but they also have smf’s with those kits… as easy as it is to speculate that the crank walk happens from and heavy plate having to be compressed, the same speculation about vibrations is easy too.

 

[El_bigote_AJ]

I understand “stage x” does not mean everything, I just don’t understand why someone needs or wants a clutch rated for 650lb ft on a car that makes maybe 500lb ft lol. I understand having a little extra is a good thing but I think your bottom end is going to go far sooner than that clutch pushing 500lb ft consistently. My 2c

Again… how do you think that “650” number was determined? And how come clutch’s rated to 400+ slip on some cars making less? That rating hold close the same water as the “stage” name does.

better yet HS tunings RSR is a fun one… go look at the non hybrid version ratings. Interesting how one when it’s used on one engine the rating is under 400 but on another engine the rating is for close to 500. That’s a good example of how there more to the holding power that the companies “calculate” like how the power is delivered and how the cars driven.

So for me I’m not chasing a clutch cause it’s says 650 TQ… I’m ignoring that as I don’t trust those ratings, and we’ll considered all the money spent and clutch issues and luck I’ve had in the last year I’d rather not change it.

 

[PowerDemon]

Again… how do you think that “650” number was determined?

Plate pressure and material construction

 

[El_bigote_AJ]

Plate pressure and material construction

Calculated… not tested

 

[hans611]

better yet HS tunings RSR is a fun one… go look at the non hybrid version ratings. Interesting how one when it’s used on one engine the rating is under 400 but on another engine the rating is for close to 500. That’s a good example of how there more to the holding power that the companies “calculate” like how the power is delivered and how the cars driven.

Yeah that's an odd one, it honestly makes no sense though... why is the MQB (MK7) rated for 100 lb ft less...

edit: Maybe they are assuming the MK7's make that peak torque earlier? Its not just torque, its also rpm...

 

[jaystonewee]

After much debate I pulled the trigger on the Ringer 3+ over Southbend stage 3. Keeping the DMF and going Ringer is 1/3rd the cost of SB when a Fluidamper is factored in.

Keep the conversation up. I'll keep this thread updated with impressions once the Ringer gets here.