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Enabling TMC in the UK - is it possible?

Lth0ms0n

Go Kart Newbie
Location
United Kingdom
Car(s)
2013 Golf GTD
Right, I really fell down a rabbit hole with this last night (thanks, ADHD) and gleaned a LOT of information about it. It's still not working, but I think I'm one hell of a lot closer to understanding why that is...

If this doesn't interest you, look away - now.

First off, let's start with the codes.

To enable this on the MIB, these 5F adaptations/long coding have to be set:
  • Byte 13 RDS - Not Deactivated
  • Byte 13 Radio Text Plus - Activated
  • Fee-based Traffic Information (TMC) - See below
This is the easy bit. With all of this information set correctly (and the corresponding settings in the Radio section switched on approriately) the MIB should begin to receive traffic information and display it under the Traffic menu.
The codes which are needed for the TMC adaptation channel are actually indicated in the navigation database. On the SD card, if you browse to Maps\00\cfg\mapcfg\VW\Traffic\TMC, there are two files in here relevant to this.
  • ~TMCProviders\TMCProviders.xml
  • ~TMCProviderSets\TMCProviderSets.xml
There is also a General Config file - I'll get to that.

The TMC Providers file lists all the service providers for the navigation region (Europe, in this case) which VW has partnered with to provide this data for the system. It's broken down like this (with corresponding ID numbers [bulleted] - which I'll also get to):
  1. TMC Pro - DE
  2. Trafficmaster - GB
  3. ViaMichelin - FR
  4. MMM - FI
  5. BeMobile - PT
  6. Inrix - GB
  7. Hungary_Pay - HU
The file is broken down into 2 sections, paid for and free services. There are no free services in the UK (shock) as there are in a great number of European countries because the UK was late to the party, missed the boat with being able to piggy-back this off the BBC's FM radio transmitter network and ended up having to make use of a private system - in this case, Global Radio, the parent company of Classic FM... I haven't covered the free ones so there will be providers referenced below not stated.

The TMC Provider Sets file is the one we're really interested in - using numeric values, this aggregates lists of the providers which are then referenced in the MIB's adaptations, instructing it on which region to be used. I've listed them underneath with the corresponding providers listed in brackets, afterwards.
  • "Free TMC" - 0 (Doesn't work in the UK)
  • "VW TMCPro" - 3 (Providers 1, 2, 5)
  • "VW w/o TMCPro" - 4 (Providers 2, 5)
  • "Bentley w/o TMCPro w/o MediaMobile - 7 (Provider 2)
  • "TMCPro + TrafficMaster + infoBlu + viaMichelin + MediaMobile Nordic" - 15 (Providers 1, 2, 5, 9, 13)
  • "PayTMC Ger" - 19 (Provider 1)
  • "PayTMC France" - 20 (Provider 5)
  • "PayTMC UK" - 21 (Provider 2)
  • "PayTMC PT" - 22 (Provider 11)
  • "VW PayTMC All" - 1023 (Providers 1, 2, 5, 9, 11, 13)
Where available, the above codes will make use of both subscription/chargeable services PLUS free TMC tables to provide the data from various providers across the continent - where it's available. The file breaks them down into 2 sections, however - offline and online. The following Provider Sets will make use of online traffic, as follows:
  • "Only free TMC" - 32768 (Provider set 12)
  • "VW TMCpro" - 32771 (Provider 1, 2, 5, 12)
  • "WV w/o TMCPro" - 32772 (Providers 2, 5, 12)
  • "Bentley w/o TMCPro w/o MediaMobile - 32775 (Provider 2, 12)
  • "TMCPro + TrafficMaster + infoBlu + viaMichelin + MediaMobile Nordic" - 32783 (Providers 1, 2, 5, 9, 13)
  • "PayTMC Ger" - 32787 (Provider 1, 12)
  • "PayTMC France" - 32788 (Provider 5, 12)
  • "PayTMC UK" - 32789 (Provider 2, 12)
  • "PayTMC PT" - 32790 (Provider 11, 12)
  • "VW PayTMC All" - 33791 (Providers 1, 2, 5, 9, 11, 12, 13)
It states the unit will prefer online traffic first and will fall back to using TMC where online services are not available. Based on that, I've deduced that for this to work in the UK (and also require the least dicking around, if you're the sort who takes their car to Europe) you can theoretically make use either of a load of these, the best ones however:
  • 1023
  • 32771
  • 32772
  • 32789
There is an addendum to this - it states in the TMC Providers file that the TMC Encryption Manager contains the Attention Service Key. This is used to decrypt the signals as they are broadcasted and I imagine (I will attempt to find out/prove this today) this is code into the firmware of the MIB itself. This may also play a factor in determining which code is needed to enable the service in the car.

If you've got a retrofit MIBII, 1023 really is your best bet - as we cannot have access to Car-Net (which I'm going to investigate at some stage, I saw someone saying it's actually the MAC address of the MIB which is used to identify the car, not the VIN - but I need to fact check that) if you set a value which makes use of online services, you have to wait for it to time out and fall back to TMC each time. I'm not sure how long that is exactly, it's covered off in the General Config file I think.

I also think that the content of the General Config file is responsible for some of the supposedly random delays (seen by @DV52, as I've seen him commenting on other forums) when he's helped people code it. For example, I think the car has to search for the data when it firsts starts operating; it builds a list of countries where it can obtain the information from and it does this using a saved list of 3. In Europe, the car seems to start with "DE" and then works from there. This could be why it takes almost 24 hours for a Golf in the UK to start pulling the data down; although once it's started, it should theoretically be a lot faster at obtaining it, because it's stored whatever frequency it's pulling the information down on in the first memory slot and bumped one of the other entries for it.

So, now I've got that out of the way...this is where it gets messy.

VW makes use of Trafficmaster data in the UK to supply this information to the MIB. As we know, this is broadcast by Classic FM. The car is ideally supposed to have 2 tuners built-in - one who's job is fully responsible for scanning for this information and pulling it down, regardless of the radio station/media input being used. Last night I came across a reference to the transmitters are used, and their locations... (I have no idea how relevant this is.)

page7image2172022448


This table comes from a license application PDF I came across, for an application from INRIX to OffCom to maintain their service. They're also making use of the Classic FM network to broadcast their information. I don't know how to look up grid references but the general consensus in my house this morning is that Meldrum (20 miles North West of Aberdeen) is a broadcasting site up here and should be where my car gets this information from. Looking at the Wikipedia entry for this location however, it's not where Classic FM is coming from up here, which could well be why...

I think I came across @golfdave posting on another forum about this; he made very similar comments about the way we get treated by stuff like this, up here in the North East, which he's made to me in the past. If it turns out there are 2 Meldrums in the UK and this is one further south, nothing would surprise me!

I'm going to have a look and see if I can get some kind of logging/tracing out of the car today. I found an entry in the engineering menu yesterday which looks as though it might write that to an SD card; either the nav one that's already in it or an additional one - not sure if it will allow me to choose. This is either going to come down to it not working in the area I'm in at all (poor show, but not surprising) or the antenna for this being missing/using the wrong amplifier, as I stumbled across something about it yesterday.
 
Last edited:

IWMTom

Autocross Newbie
Right, I really fell down a rabbit hole with this last night (thanks, ADHD) and gleaned a LOT of information about it. It's still not working, but I think I'm one hell of a lot closer to understanding why that is...

If this doesn't interest you, look away - now.

First off, let's start with the codes.

To enable this on the MIB, these 5F adaptations/long coding have to be set:
  • Byte 13 RDS - Not Deactivated
  • Byte 13 Radio Text Plus - Activated
  • Fee-based Traffic Information (TMC) - See below
This is the easy bit. With all of this information set correctly (and the corresponding settings in the Radio section switched on approriately) the MIB should begin to receive traffic information and display it under the Traffic menu.
The codes which are needed for the TMC adaptation channel are actually indicated in the navigation database. On the SD card, if you browse to Maps\00\cfg\mapcfg\VW\Traffic\TMC, there are two files in here relevant to this.
  • ~TMCProviders\TMCProviders.xml
  • ~TMCProviderSets\TMCProviderSets.xml
There is also a General Config file - I'll get to that.

The TMC Providers file lists all the service providers for the navigation region (Europe, in this case) which VW has partnered with to provide this data for the system. It's broken down like this (with corresponding ID numbers [bulleted] - which I'll also get to):
  1. TMC Pro - DE
  2. Trafficmaster - GB
  3. ViaMichelin - FR
  4. MMM - FI
  5. BeMobile - PT
  6. Inrix - GB
  7. Hungary_Pay - HU
The file is broken down into 2 sections, paid for and free services. There are no free services in the UK (shock) as there are in a great number of European countries because the UK was late to the party, missed the boat with being able to piggy-back this off the BBC's FM radio transmitter network and ended up having to make use of a private system - in this case, Global Radio, the parent company of Classic FM... I haven't covered the free ones so there will be providers referenced below not stated.

The TMC Provider Sets file is the one we're really interested in - using numeric values, this aggregates lists of the providers which are then referenced in the MIB's adaptations, instructing it on which region to be used. I've listed them underneath with the corresponding providers listed in brackets, afterwards.
  • "Free TMC" - 0 (Doesn't work in the UK)
  • "VW TMCPro" - 3 (Providers 1, 2, 5)
  • "VW w/o TMCPro" - 4 (Providers 2, 5)
  • "Bentley w/o TMCPro w/o MediaMobile - 7 (Provider 2)
  • "TMCPro + TrafficMaster + infoBlu + viaMichelin + MediaMobile Nordic" - 15 (Providers 1, 2, 5, 9, 13)
  • "PayTMC Ger" - 19 (Provider 1)
  • "PayTMC France" - 20 (Provider 5)
  • "PayTMC UK" - 21 (Provider 2)
  • "PayTMC PT" - 22 (Provider 11)
  • "VW PayTMC All" - 1023 (Providers 1, 2, 5, 9, 11, 13)
Where available, the above codes will make use of both subscription/chargeable services PLUS free TMC tables to provide the data from various providers across the continent - where it's available. The file breaks them down into 2 sections, however - offline and online. The following Provider Sets will make use of online traffic, as follows:
  • "Only free TMC" - 32768 (Provider set 12)
  • "VW TMCpro" - 32771 (Provider 1, 2, 5, 12)
  • "WV w/o TMCPro" - 32772 (Providers 2, 5, 12)
  • "Bentley w/o TMCPro w/o MediaMobile - 32775 (Provider 2, 12)
  • "TMCPro + TrafficMaster + infoBlu + viaMichelin + MediaMobile Nordic" - 32783 (Providers 1, 2, 5, 9, 13)
  • "PayTMC Ger" - 32787 (Provider 1, 12)
  • "PayTMC France" - 32788 (Provider 5, 12)
  • "PayTMC UK" - 32789 (Provider 2, 12)
  • "PayTMC PT" - 32790 (Provider 11, 12)
  • "VW PayTMC All" - 33791 (Providers 1, 2, 5, 9, 11, 12, 13)
It states the unit will prefer online traffic first and will fall back to using TMC where online services are not available. Based on that, I've deduced that for this to work in the UK (and also require the least dicking around, if you're the sort who takes their car to Europe) you can theoretically make use either of a load of these, the best ones however:
  • 1023
  • 32771
  • 32772
  • 32789
There is an addendum to this - it states in the TMC Providers file that the TMC Encryption Manager contains the Attention Service Key. This is used to decrypt the signals as they are broadcasted and I imagine (I will attempt to find out/prove this today) this is code into the firmware of the MIB itself. This may also play a factor in determining which code is needed to enable the service in the car.

If you've got a retrofit MIBII, 1023 really is your best bet - as we cannot have access to Car-Net (which I'm going to investigate at some stage, I saw someone saying it's actually the MAC address of the MIB which is used to identify the car, not the VIN - but I need to fact check that) if you set a value which makes use of online services, you have to wait for it to time out and fall back to TMC each time. I'm not sure how long that is exactly, it's covered off in the General Config file I think.

I also think that the content of the General Config file is responsible for some of the supposedly random delays (seen by @DV52, as I've seen him commenting on other forums) when he's helped people code it. For example, I think the car has to search for the data when it firsts starts operating; it builds a list of countries where it can obtain the information from and it does this using a saved list of 3. In Europe, the car seems to start with "DE" and then works from there. This could be why it takes almost 24 hours for a Golf in the UK to start pulling the data down; although once it's started, it should theoretically be a lot faster at obtaining it, because it's stored whatever frequency it's pulling the information down on in the first memory slot and bumped one of the other entries for it.

So, now I've got that out of the way...this is where it gets messy.

VW makes use of Trafficmaster data in the UK to supply this information to the MIB. As we know, this is broadcast by Classic FM. The car is ideally supposed to have 2 tuners built-in - one who's job is fully responsible for scanning for this information and pulling it down, regardless of the radio station/media input being used. Last night I came across a reference to the transmitters are used, and their locations... (I have no idea how relevant this is.)

View attachment 219940

This table comes from a license application PDF I came across, for an application from INRIX to OffCom to maintain their service. They're also making use of the Classic FM network to broadcast their information. I don't know how to look up grid references but the general consensus in my house this morning is that Meldrum (20 miles North West of Aberdeen) is a broadcasting site up here and should be where my car gets this information from. Looking at the Wikipedia entry for this location however, it's not where Classic FM is coming from up here, which could well be why...

I think I came across @golfdave posting on another forum about this; he made very similar comments about the way we get treated by stuff like this, up here in the North East, which he's made to me in the past. If it turns out there are 2 Meldrums in the UK and this is one further south, nothing would surprise me!

I'm going to have a look and see if I can get some kind of logging/tracing out of the car today. I found an entry in the engineering menu yesterday which looks as though it might write that to an SD card; either the nav one that's already in it or an additional one - not sure if it will allow me to choose. This is either going to come down to it not working in the area I'm in at all (poor show, but not surprising) or the antenna for this being missing/using the wrong amplifier, as I stumbled across something about it yesterday.
Nice work.

"which I'm going to investigate at some stage, I saw someone saying it's actually the MAC address of the MIB which is used to identify the car, not the VIN - but I need to fact check that"

Whoever said that is an idiot. You need to provide the VIN when going through the CarNet registration process.
 

Lth0ms0n

Go Kart Newbie
Location
United Kingdom
Car(s)
2013 Golf GTD
Nice work.

"which I'm going to investigate at some stage, I saw someone saying it's actually the MAC address of the MIB which is used to identify the car, not the VIN - but I need to fact check that"

Whoever said that is an idiot. You need to provide the VIN when going through the CarNet registration process.
Pahahaha! Well, consider that fact, checked, then. 🤣🤣

I’ve already gotten a step further - you don’t need to extract logs from the unit to see what I wanted to see. In the Green Engineering Menu (I have to stop and laugh at the fact that’s actually what they call it) you can see the following:

44B64F6C-6323-4C93-9B41-CC07EC993873.jpeg


You get there via AnalogTuner > 03_tmc_list - it displays Classic in entry 1 regardless of what station the FM radio is actually playing, so that would suggest there is indeed a second tuner in the unit dedicated to this, which you’d want, otherwise what’s the point…

I can also see this:

76AAB000-B312-4047-9546-7F56B700AAF7.jpeg


Same as above, you select 10_tmc_tuner this time. There you can see what system is being tapped, right now - INRIX.

Set to 1023, INRIX is one of the provider tables my unit is currently configured to use for traffic info. When the site I have access to is back up and running, I’ll download the f/W my unit is running currently and see if there’s anything in there to indicate that it can unscramble the data they broadcast.

That could potentially be my issue, INRIX seems to be used by Traffic Scotland so I see no reason why this isn’t working now, given I know the unit is operating correctly.
 

DV52

Drag Race Newbie
Location
Australia
hmmm......not sure if it helps, but I have 2 x hex5F admaps in my database that are from Europe and that have the channel Fee-based traffic information (TMC) active.

For this channel:
  • the 5Q0 series module has the value 1023, and
  • the 3G0 series module has the value 32768

Don
 
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Lth0ms0n

Go Kart Newbie
Location
United Kingdom
Car(s)
2013 Golf GTD
hmmm......not sure if it helps, but I have 2 x hex5F admaps in my database that are from Europe and that have the channel Fee-based traffic information (TMC) active.

For this channel:
  • the 5Q0 series module has the value 1023, and
  • the 3G0 series module has the value 32768

Don
That makes sense, 3G0 would be the MIB2 and 5Q0 is the MIB1.

This will be for Car-Net provisioning. If you look at the TMCProviderSets.xml file in the Navigation Data, you will see both of those listed - the difference being that set 32768 states use_online_traffic="true", 1023 doesn't.

I was chatting to a guy who seems to have had some kind of malfunction with his Audi unit which has enabled Audi Connect (at least, I think). It did make me wonder if there might be a way of...modifying...the software, to by-pass that check and allow it through.

That would be nice! 😅 Even if only for the traffic data, I don't give a damn about anything else really!
 
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DV52

Drag Race Newbie
Location
Australia
hmm..... I'm totally confused!! I had understood from your first post that the current hex5F module in your MY13 Golf is a retrofit MIB2 unit (which has been hacked to address CP errors). If my understanding is is correct - wouldn't 32768 be a more appropriate setting for the adaptation channel setting?

With absolutely no offense intended in my question - why do you persist in using a MIB1 setting on a MIB2 module -what am I missing?

Don
 

Lth0ms0n

Go Kart Newbie
Location
United Kingdom
Car(s)
2013 Golf GTD
hmm..... I'm totally confused!! I had understood from your first post that the current hex5F module in your MY13 Golf is a retrofit MIB2 unit (which has been hacked to address CP errors). If my understanding is is correct - wouldn't 32768 be a more appropriate setting for the adaptation channel setting?

With absolutely no offense intended in my question - why do you persist in using a MIB1 setting on a MIB2 module -what am I missing?

Don
I have no idea how it’s been done tbh. My understanding was it was being done as it would have been in the factory, with ODIS, but I digress…

The reason I wouldn’t suggest using 32771 is because it, according to TMCProviderSets.xml, prefers Online data first.

133638A0-AA79-4E6B-831D-2AF066AD3C92.jpeg

53B4CB5A-242D-4D13-A1F6-FD502F96CACB.jpeg


The general config seems to indicate it waits for a set period before falling back from online to TMC/TPEG.

Or, that’s how I interpret this:

0BD181F2-ADE4-4DA3-81FC-3ED972C590A2.jpeg


I need to interrogate the MIB F/W and see if I can determine what decryption keys for the 2 providers are hard-coded in. I’m not 100% sure the provider the unit is picking up (INRIX) broadcasts over FM and isn’t online only.

81C3D0A6-1716-439E-A53B-502F7A74BD3E.jpeg


According to a license application recently submitted to OfCom, INRIX is broadcast by at least one transmisster in NE Scotland, so the answer to that question should be a resounding yes. But the only evidence I’ve found of VW + INRIX working together had been for the 2014 Passat (MIB1) including their parking data in the OG Discover Pro.

The investigation continues…
 

DV52

Drag Race Newbie
Location
Australia
@Lth0ms0n: hmmm......... again, with absolutely no offense intended in my reply - and with due respect to the logic in your explanation above - why not simply try another value in Fee-based traffic information (TMC) channel?

What's the worst that can happen? This is a relatively mature tweak now and I'm aware of lots of folk that have tampered with this channel multiple times. It's an easy try and you won't break anything. And, If it doesn't work (after resetting the hex5F module and waiting a period of time to allow the tables to be established) simply restore the value 1023 and move forward!!!
:)

Don
 

Lth0ms0n

Go Kart Newbie
Location
United Kingdom
Car(s)
2013 Golf GTD
@Lth0ms0n: hmmm......... again, with absolutely no offense intended in my reply - and with due respect to the logic in your explanation above - why not simply try another value in Fee-based traffic information (TMC) channel?

What's the worst that can happen? This is a relatively mature tweak now and I'm aware of lots of folk that have tampered with this channel multiple times. It's an easy try and you won't break anything. And, If it doesn't work (after resetting the hex5F module and waiting a period of time to allow the tables to be established) simply restore the value 1023 and move forward!!!
:)

Don
That's no problem. :)

It just doesn't seem to work with any of them. I may arrive at the point where this does indeed become a geographic (read: political) problem, in that - as with many things - despite being the economic powerhouse of Scotland, the North East just gets left by the wayside when it comes to...well...everything.

But that doesn't correlate with what I understand to be coming from one of the radio towers in the area, so that's enough (almost) nationalist, victim mindset for now :ROFLMAO:

Looking at the history from OBD11, the original value on the unit was 32771. It's been in-situ and working since early June, so it's had plenty time to pull the info down using that adaptation before I started messing around with it. There are no keys referenced in that provider set so I'm 99.9% certain that the only thing which is different about that one, from 1023, is that the latter does not make reference to the use of any online sources to download the information from.

The next thing I want to try and do is pull logs (or a TMC trace) from the unit to the SD card. I spent a couple of hours yesterday trying to do this with it, I can get it to save IRC data to the SD card slot but no logging. I'm going to put it into Developer Mode and see if that gives me any extra buttons in the "Test & Erprobrung" menu because nothing else, to date, has worked as far as that's concerned!

The other thing I also need to consider is that the unit is also throwing a fault with the GPS antenna at the moment. This is quite common with Delphi units, apparently, when using a third-party aerial for the nav. As this isn't used for this, it's unlikely, however I now know that it's the reason the MFD says "No GPS Reception" so the unit may be incorrectly telling the TMC service it doesn't know where it is, despite the nav working perfectly when guidance is activated...

That's at the bottom of the list though, I really don't think that's the cause of the problem.
 
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KFiddy

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Adelaide
I've been trying to activate the TMC feature in Aust. using code 1024 is this correct? after doing all the steps when I select the traffic button it shows TMC with a line through it at the top of the screen
 

Lth0ms0n

Go Kart Newbie
Location
United Kingdom
Car(s)
2013 Golf GTD
I've been trying to activate the TMC feature in Aust. using code 1024 is this correct? after doing all the steps when I select the traffic button it shows TMC with a line through it at the top of the screen
I had a quick look - as I'm not an Aussie, I'm not familiar but SUNA is available in Adelaide, so at least we know that's not the issue.

What do you see, in the Green Engineering Menu, if you go into AnalogTuner and then check:
  • TMC_3.0 table
  • TMC_list
  • TMC_stat
If you're not sure how to get there, hold down the Menu key for 10 seconds and then tap Test Mode. It's the first option there.

I can't remember if it's been listed above but this would be in addition to also having the Traffic Programme, Radio Text, RDS and Automatic Frequency Control all ticked in the radio settings on the unit.

Out of interest, what software version is your unit running and what navigation database do you have? This may be unrelated - I’m trying to determine if my problem is software related..
 
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KFiddy

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Adelaide
TMC 3.0 table ecc=0 sid=7 spiv=atsafm ltn=57 msc=262, flashes every 3 sec
TMC list ps =SAFM sid= 7 q=97 u=0 PI=5071 pro=0 cc=5 eec=0 iso=- int=57 sup=0
TMC stat ?
all boxes ticked
s/w ver0241
map MRM3 2021
 

Lth0ms0n

Go Kart Newbie
Location
United Kingdom
Car(s)
2013 Golf GTD
TMC 3.0 table ecc=0 sid=7 spiv=atsafm ltn=57 msc=262, flashes every 3 sec
TMC list ps =SAFM sid= 7 q=97 u=0 PI=5071 pro=0 cc=5 eec=0 iso=- int=57 sup=0
TMC stat ?
all boxes ticked
s/w ver0241
map MRM3 2021

The plot thickens! Unfortunately, this means I have more questions for you...
  • When was the last time this worked, do you know? Has it ever worked for you?
  • Is this a Discover Nav, or a Discover Pro? Has it been modded, or hacked, in any way, or has it been in your car since it was built?
  • Are these the latest maps available? Do you have a back-up copy of an old database we could potentially interrogate?
  • Can you confirm the full s/w details for the unit, like I have for mine?
1626958833453.png


Before I wrote this, I downloaded the latest maps for ROW from VW's website. To be clear, the ones I downloaded were the same as what would-be for my car (in it's current configuration) if it were over there - Discover Media, 2015 onwards.

I've been through the database and I can't see a reference to SUNA in either of the TMC config files - it should be noted in:
  • ~\TMCProviders.xml
  • ~\TMCProviderSets.xml
The fact that it's not makes me wonder if either the subscription on the unit is perhaps temporary OR have VW severed ties with SUNA?

I find that hard to believe, but...

1626985596794.png


@DV52 I presume you still use this in your Golf, how do you do it - does it still work and are your maps the latest and greatest?

A quick search tells me SUNA's broadcast works differently to INRIX's. SUNA encrypt their broadcast and that means there's a need for an assembly key on the receiver to decode it. With INRIX, the location table required for their service is proprietary - to access it, all you need is the table so the receiver can decode the messages against it. The OEM simply puts A version of the table on their units when they're manufactured.

If my car doesn't pick up the very blatantly broadcasted INRIX service where I am now (and the only evidence I see of people using it seems to be TrafficMaster data coming through RDS) then I wonder if that means VW have partnered with INRIX for TPEG (TPEG coincidentally is a newer protocol and is used on both DAB & internet broadcasted traffic/travel data, to devices like Smartphones OR connected services, like Car-Net) only.

That would explain why, at least in my case, no one receives traffic information this far north - I checked this week, TrafficMaster's broadcasting stops in Perth and I'm 62 miles beyond that.

TPEG has the bandwidth available to it such that a pre-staged location table isn't required on the receiver end. The problem with this is that, in the UK, we had a dedicated TPEG DAB channel, only OfCom decided to revoke it's license and give it to the alt-right for their news radio station. I guess that's because, once Priti Patel's regime really takes over, there will be no need for traffic information here because immigration will be so heavily restricted that no one is going to be driving anywhere...

ALTHOUGH...(can you tell I'm thinking this through as I write it?)...that doesn't explain this:


1626986622580.jpeg
1627027459278.jpeg


If it didn't support it, would it still be referred to in the TMC config files? 🤔
 

Lth0ms0n

Go Kart Newbie
Location
United Kingdom
Car(s)
2013 Golf GTD
TMC 3.0 table ecc=0 sid=7 spiv=atsafm ltn=57 msc=262, flashes every 3 sec
TMC list ps =SAFM sid= 7 q=97 u=0 PI=5071 pro=0 cc=5 eec=0 iso=- int=57 sup=0
TMC stat ?
all boxes ticked
s/w ver0241
map MRM3 2021

The plot thickens! Unfortunately, this means I have more questions for you...
  • When was the last time this worked, do you know? Has it ever worked for you?
  • Is this a Discover Nav, or a Discover Pro? Has it been modded, or hacked, in any way, or has it been in your car since it was built?
  • Are these the latest maps available? Do you have a back-up copy of an old database we could potentially interrogate?
  • Can you confirm the full s/w details for the unit, like I have for mine?
View attachment 220406

Before I wrote this, I downloaded the latest maps for ROW from VW's website. To be clear, the ones I downloaded were the same as what would-be for my car (in it's current configuration) if it were over there - Discover Media, 2015 onwards.

I've been through the database and I can't see a reference to SUNA in either of the TMC config files - it should be noted in:
  • ~\TMCProviders.xml
  • ~\TMCProviderSets.xml
The fact that it's not makes me wonder if either the subscription on the unit is perhaps temporary OR have VW severed ties with SUNA?

I find that hard to believe, but...

View attachment 220483

@DV52 I presume you still use this in your Golf, how do you do it - does it still work and are your maps the latest and greatest?

A quick search tells me SUNA's broadcast works differently to INRIX's. SUNA encrypt their broadcast and that means there's a need for an assembly key on the receiver to decode it. With INRIX, the location table required for their service is proprietary - to access it, all you need is the table so the receiver can decode the messages against it. The OEM simply puts A version of the table on their units when they're manufactured.

If my car doesn't pick up the very blatantly broadcasted INRIX service where I am now (and the only evidence I see of people using it seems to be TrafficMaster data coming through RDS) then I wonder if that means VW have partnered with INRIX for TPEG (TPEG coincidentally is a newer protocol and is used on both DAB & internet broadcasted traffic/travel data, to devices like Smartphones OR connected services, like Car-Net) only.

That would explain why, at least in my case, no one receives traffic information this far north - I checked this week, TrafficMaster's broadcasting stops in Perth and I'm 62 miles beyond that. The nearest INRIX broadcasting station to me right now, however, is the one located in Meldrum - 16 miles north-west of Aberdeen. There is also at least one other, in Inverness.

So the North East has plenty of coverage - there is something else causing a problem here.

TPEG has the bandwidth available to it such that a pre-staged location table isn't required on the receiver end. The problem with this is that, in the UK, we had a dedicated TPEG DAB channel, only OfCom decided to revoke it's license and give it to the alt-right for their news radio station. I guess that's because, once Priti Patel's regime really takes over, there will be no need for traffic information here because immigration will be so heavily restricted that no one is going to be driving anywhere...

ALTHOUGH...(can you tell I'm thinking this through as I write it?)...that doesn't explain this:

View attachment 220484 View attachment 220485

Ehh...wait...hang on a second...I think I've just had a MASSIVE eureka!

Hold that thought!
 
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DV52

Drag Race Newbie
Location
Australia
@Lth0ms0n: Re your questions - yes TMC is still active and operates on the mk7 - which is now owned by a friend.

If I use normal FM radio, I see TP on the top line as per the first picture below and if I press the "Traffic" button on the MIB escutcheon plate - I get a list of entries as per the second pic below (sorry for the sloppy focus):



If I select one of the entries, I get something like this:



Notice the triangles with a man digging - these refer to the TMC entries related to roadworks (the alpha characters A, B,... relate to the alphas on the list entries). There are other triangles to indicate traffic congestion and the like.

On the normal navigation screen, these same triangles appear to indicate that there is an entry on the Traffic-button list

And here is a pic showing the FM set-up screen on my mk7 for TMC (again, yes - sloppy focus) :



No - I don't bother regularly updating the maps - in fact, I find using the Waze App on my mobile much more effective as a navigation tool - it tells me when I'm speeding and it tells me stuff like speeding camera locations and traffic problems more directly

Don
 
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