Downpipe without stage 2 software... good or bad?

[art_mark7]

I am apr stage 1 with basic intake , TIP, res delete and wanna get a downpipe
Since mine is 6 sp. and happy with power and the way stock clutch is holding, so I wanna keep running stage 1 tune.

Any downside running the DP without patching the tune to stage 2?
Also will there be any realistic power gain ? Anyone run such setup?
Thanks.

To clarify, question should be, does anyone run Stage 1 tune with a DP? if yes, what will be the gain and if is good for the car long term. If no, then maybe i should forget that idea.

 

[Saleta]

Estoy en la misma situación, estaré alerta.
Greetings from Spain.

 

[Subliminal]

dont do that. get an intercooler instead

 

[starsmith]

dont do that. get an intercooler instead

Seconding this. From what I've read on these forums a downpipe without a Stage 2 tune gets you more sound, the possibility of CELs to troubleshoot, and not much else. If you want to send that thing for more than a single good pull in the Texan summer, you'll be adding much more power for your money with an intercooler.

 

[jimlloyd40]

Seconding this. From what I've read on these forums a downpipe without a Stage 2 tune gets you more sound, the possibility of CELs to troubleshoot, and not much else. If you want to send that thing for more than a single good pull in the Texan summer, you'll be adding much more power for your money with an intercooler.

Not technically adding more power with an IC. Just not losing as much power because of heat soak.

 

[GTI Jake]

dont do that. get an intercooler instead

This 100%, not even specifically to you’re situation or goals, but as a blanket statement you should upgrade your intercooler before considering a downpipe or stage 2.

Specifically to your situation, my personal car was stage 1 with full bolt ons for 49k miles before I decided to upgrade the clutch and flash stage 2. The OEM clutch was still in great condition, so given proper driving techniques (no high load situations at low RPM) you can hang out at this power level indefinitely.

This might be helpful to anyone checking out this thread as well. Not just a list, but a full explanation on why the list falls in that order.

 

[art_mark7]

Thanks all it was an interesting discussion ... certainly appreciate diff respomses.

DP without stage 2 seems to be just an exhaust upgrade - intercooler will be best bang for the buck performance wise (since i live in TX), clutch will be needed sooner if I am having too much fun with my stage1 power.
but if say im selling my car in 3 years or so, would you have changed any plan?

any other suggestions there?

 

[jimlloyd40]

Thanks all it was an interesting discussion ... certainly appreciate diff respomses.

DP without stage 2 seems to be just an exhaust upgrade - intercooler will be best bang for the buck performance wise (since i live in TX), clutch will be needed sooner if I am having too much fun with my stage1 power.
but if say im selling my car in 3 years or so, would you have changed any plan?

any other suggestions there?

I would still get the downpipe and the stage 2 tune after the intercooler and clutch upgrade. Make sure to keep the OEM DP if you'll need it to pass emissions.

 

[ZuMBLe]

Not technically adding more power with an IC. Just not losing as much power because of heat soak.

And the car thinking its too hot and pulling timing.

 

[hotbascosauce]

What is your goal for the downpipe? Sound? More power? If you are planning on selling the car in 3 years, will you be removing all the parts before you sell?
If you just want more sound, get an exhaust, but it wont give you any more power.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I dont think Stage 2 software actually does anything different from Stage 1 besides removing the check engine light. I know there are people on this forum that have run a downpipe with just the O2 spacer and JB4 without any ill effects.

 

[Subliminal]

What is your goal for the downpipe? Sound? More power? If you are planning on selling the car in 3 years, will you be removing all the parts before you sell?
If you just want more sound, get an exhaust, but it wont give you any more power.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I dont think Stage 2 software actually does anything different from Stage 1 besides removing the check engine light. I know there are people on this forum that have run a downpipe with just the O2 spacer and JB4 without any ill effects.

stage 2 tunes add about +20hp

 

[GTI Jake]

What is your goal for the downpipe? Sound? More power? If you are planning on selling the car in 3 years, will you be removing all the parts before you sell?
If you just want more sound, get an exhaust, but it wont give you any more power.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I dont think Stage 2 software actually does anything different from Stage 1 besides removing the check engine light. I know there are people on this forum that have run a downpipe with just the O2 spacer and JB4 without any ill effects.

Stage 2 is slightly more aggressive, thanks to the added flow and lower EGT from the downpipe.

If you didn’t watch the video I posted, engine and transmission mounts are a big deal as well as tires. At the very least I’d recommend a dog bone insert from BFI.

The video was made to be like a podcast, so you can just listen to it and get every bit of info as if you’d sat down and watched it.

 

[hotbascosauce]

stage 2 tunes add about +20hp

I was under the impression that this was due to the hardware, not the software? This is just what I was told with my APR stage 2 MK5 GTI and Unitronic stage 2 B7 A4 I had in the past.

 

[Subliminal]

I was under the impression that this was due to the hardware, not the software? This is just what I was told with my APR stage 2 MK5 GTI and Unitronic stage 2 B7 A4 I had in the past.

From ShopDap:
"Let’s play devil’s advocate first. You can equip this part on a bone stock Mk7 GTI and notice instant improvements in throttle response from reduced back-pressure. We’ve also seen performance benefits of anywhere from 5 to 25whp from a downpipe only. However, we can’t really recommend this route to anyone.

Adding a downpipe without a tune will push the ECU out of its comfort zone. For instance, because boost is so much “easier” to make, it’s possible that the car can temporarily over-boost. This can throw an EPC light, sending your car into limp mode. For some this can happen the first pull, others might make it 10,000 miles safely. Either way, the proper way to keep your GTI running happy and healthy is with software that matches the hardware."

https://www.shopdap.com/blog/post/mk7-gti-downpipes.html

tldr- you're correct but that doesn't mean it's a good idea

 

[GTI Jake]

My car trapped 110mph with stage 1 FBO, and 111mph stage 2 FBO (no hardware changes, basically identical conditions).

Trap speed is a indication of performance that just flat out doesn’t lie.

With that said, 1mph isn’t a massive difference, but you also have better/stronger power delivery under the curve.