Dogbone fill instead of inserts

[wlfpck]

Tossed this idea around a while back in another thread but figured I'd post this up as a separate thread.

The idea is that instead of putting in an insert and dealing with re-torquing everything, people could just fill it.

The idea would be to NOT fill the entire insert but rather just the front and the back leaving the sides unfilled.

For material, RTV sealant or even silicon caulk could be used.

This wouldn't be as stiff as an aluminum insert but would provide some cushion. The stiffer the material, the more it will be similar to a metal insert.

I found this thread on VWVortex. Apparently someone has already filled in the whole insert.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...dogbone-mount-Thoughts!&p=86726441&viewfull=1

Not sure if anyone else has tried this.

 

[worldacgti]

Use 3M window weld. I filled the mounts with this on my old civic and it was just like buying aftermarket mounts.

 

[Finglonga]

It is literally a single bolt to fit the insert and 10minutes from tart to finish to do once you are under the car..

 

[PLF8593]

It is literally a single bolt to fit the insert and 10minutes from tart to finish to do once you are under the car..

Yeah. And it sounds like what you're saying would be irreversible. Definitely more time consuming, and introducing higher likelihood for something to go wrong.

 

[wlfpck]

I'm not doing any of this. I was just throwing the idea out there. I don't track my car since it's my DD so I'm pretty comfy.

Only reason I brought this up was due to multiple issues that some people have had:

1. People not torquing it down correctly.
2. The engine moves and they is not lined up properly when tightening everything down.
3. Version 1 versus Version 2 (which even though you can look at it and tell, there are still people that question which one they have).
4. I think there was someone who couldn't get one delivered to their country.
5. Bending/cracking of the 034, CTS, BFI, Torque Solutions, etc. inserts.

Granted any of these points besides #5 could be solved just by taking your time and doing things properly.

Comparing this to the HPA dogbone mount replacement... it seems like if you fill the WHOLE thing in, you would have a cheap version of this and not have to worry about #1-4.

Either way... was just a thought I had.

It is literally a single bolt to fit the insert and 10minutes from tart to finish to do once you are under the car..

I've installed the insert before. As long as you have a torque wrench you're good. Not to belittle anyone or whatever, but even though this is an easy install, people have still managed to muck it up, buy the wrong one, etc. etc.

Filling it in with silicon or whatever would eliminate any error from occurring. There's no misaligning the bolt. No Torquing to the wrong spec. No preload due to engine shifting when the bolt was removed the first time. No need for a torque wrench. Etc Etc.

Not saying this is going to be better than the 034 or CTS insert. Just saying that this would really, REALLY eliminate user error.

Or... for the people that need a FULL solid "insert" like the HPA replacement... this could be a way to do it.

Just throwing out ideas.

 

[0bLiViOuS]

I'll probably try some silicone for fun. I used to do the window weld stuff on my beater Hondas but they're too stiff for DD imo. Whenever I get around to trying it I'll report back

 

[wlfpck]

I'll probably try some silicone for fun. I used to do the window weld stuff on my beater Hondas but they're too stiff for DD imo. Whenever I get around to trying it I'll report back

Nice. I remember you mentioning this in the CTS thread where I originally made the post. Figured I'd start a new thread as to not hijack anyone's.

Been seeing a couple people here and there breaking/bending their inserts which as a result eliminates/reduces the benefits of the inserts.

Silicon should increase the stiffness since it compresses less than the air filling the void. Either way should provide some stiffness. Maybe try RTV Silicone since it'll be stiffer than something like Silicone caulk? Not sure what you had planned.

 

[2slowvw]

Use 3M window weld. I filled the mounts with this on my old civic and it was just like buying aftermarket mounts.

I read this comment, then looked at your signature and saw that you actually bought the insert. So is your stance that the insert is better, or you just got the insert because it is reversible and the window weld would take a lot of time trying to remove it?

Either way I would just get an insert, they are cheap and easy enough.

 

[0bLiViOuS]

I have the insert myself, but have heard reports of breakage and bending so that's why I'd be tempted. I'm looking for the holy grail.. more stiffness to control torque, but no added NVH lol. Since we don't have rubber aftermarket mounts yet, that's why I want to experiment

 

[wlfpck]

I have the insert myself, but have heard reports of breakage and bending so that's why I'd be tempted. I'm looking for the holy grail.. more stiffness to control torque, but no added NVH lol. Since we don't have rubber aftermarket mounts yet, that's why I want to experiment

HPA Motorsports has a full dogbone mount replacement.

http://www.hpamotorsports.com/product_motormounts.html

 

[0bLiViOuS]

Ya I know but I believe it's poly like the others. If I went anything it would probably be superpro since it's a poly rubber hybrid

 

[worldacgti]

I read this comment, then looked at your signature and saw that you actually bought the insert. So is your stance that the insert is better, or you just got the insert because it is reversible and the window weld would take a lot of time trying to remove it?

Either way I would just get an insert, they are cheap and easy enough.

Imo the insert is better cause it can be removed. Filling the dogbone with window weld will cause the car to be very stiff. From a mere performance standpoint, I believe the window weld will be better simply because all the gaps will be filled with essential a very hard durometer polyurethane substance


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[Chowderhead72]

HPA Motorsports has a full dogbone mount replacement.

http://www.hpamotorsports.com/product_motormounts.html

Yup.. I have one and love it. However if I had to do it again I would have bought the super pro full set before going stage 1. I can believe how terrible the stock mount was. Mine was making tons of noise on the first test drive. Any bump in the road under acceleration and it sounded like the motor and trans were going to come out, stage 1 then stage 2 didn't help. The HPA mount made a huge difference but it still needs more. IMO the super pro system will get it done without turning the car into a rattle trap; at least I hope it does.

 

[wlfpck]

Imo the insert is better cause it can be removed. Filling the dogbone with window weld will cause the car to be very stiff. From a mere performance standpoint, I believe the window weld will be better simply because all the gaps will be filled with essential a very hard durometer polyurethane substance


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Yeah. My thought is that instead of filling it with window weld... you go with something like RTV silicon.

Other idea is you get those hard plastic/rubber bumpers and stick a couple in there. That will fill up that space and is "reversible".