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Difficulties With Power Stop Brakes - Can I change newish pads without resurfacing rotors?

Belthasar

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
PA (USA)
Car(s)
Mk7 GSW 4Mo 6MT
I'm about ready to give up on Power Stop Brakes. About 2 months and 1000 miles ago ago installed a full set of Z23 Evolution Sport pads all around and since day one, they were clunky AF. That is, as is the case with many aftermarket pads, the fit is so poor that I get a loud clunk sound the first time I brake in a certain direction, as the pad shifts in place on the caliper carrier.

Today I finally pulled the pads off with the intention of bending the mounting tabs forward a bit so that they seat more firmly. Lo and behold, two of them broke right off when I did this :mad:

IMG_6499.jpg



This is beyond irritating, as this was already a replacement set that I ordered after the ones that arrived already had broken tabs. As you might suspect, with these broken tabs, the brake pads shift and clunk even worse than before.

I'm about ready to give up on this brand, but I wanted to ping the mind hive here regarding what's involved in switching pads. Specifically, I replaced the rotors at the time of the brake job and properly bed them with the power stop pads. If I switch to a different type of pad (or go back to OEM VW), will I have to have have the rotors resurfaced in order to accept the material of the new pad in the new bedding process?

While I'm on the subject, can anyone recommend an alternative OEM+ type of pad. This is a family hauler it's going on, with the standard 312mm alltrack/non-PP GTI rotors. I know there are millions of threads on this, but my last bout of research led me to the power stop pads, and here I am...
 

YamR1rider

Drag Racing Champion
Location
Tampa, FL
Car(s)
2017 GTI Sport DSG
I'd just change pads and give them a good fairly aggressive bedding in. Done it many times over my 3+ decades driving and motorcycling - never resurfaced rotors if not replacing, never had a problem. I personally like the EBC yellows. They have a coating of what they call a break-in compound, seems to serve to scrub the rotors before transferring the new pad material.
 

Belthasar

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
PA (USA)
Car(s)
Mk7 GSW 4Mo 6MT
It sounds like I'm fine changing to any pad as long as it gets an aggressive bedding.

I think I might throw on a set of TRW pads. I've been doing a deep dive with this clunking pad problem and it seems like having a soft backing plate that wraps around the side is key to softening the clunk like the factory pads do. TRW pads seem to have backing like this, no?

Also, why do the OEM pads and OEM supplier pads like TRW have a partial circular notch on one of the backing plates (presumably to line up with the caliper piston)? Does this further help eliminate the irritating pad clunk by holding the back pad in place better? The Power Stop Z23 pads do not have this notch, I noticed.
 

tigeo

Autocross Champion
It's fine, really not an issue. Swap pads and drive it. The bedding etc. isn't so critical with most street pads but always follow whatever instructions they come with...most street/OE type pads dont' have any particular procedure but as mentioned above, EBC pads do. If you just want quiet low dust OEM type pad, I like Centric Posi-Quiets and even whatever Napa etc. sell will be fine as well. No reason to spend a bunch on pads for a daily driver/street car. If you want more heat management for hard driving in the mountains for example, I too like EBC Yellows.
 

YamR1rider

Drag Racing Champion
Location
Tampa, FL
Car(s)
2017 GTI Sport DSG
Going on a tangent slightly, I feel as though EBCs rather long winded, high mileage 'street bedding process' is perhaps somewhat driven by concerns over potential lawsuits caused by what might be considered reckless driving in inappropriate circumstance if they advised otherwise...."Well I was only bedding my pads in as I was told to by EBC, officer :D " I continue to bed them as I always have, i.e. pretty much (after gently warming up pads and rotors first...but nowhere even near 'hundreds of miles....more like 5), I get into my series of 80-20mph progressively harder slow downs....then cruise around for a while to cool off, then rinse/repeat for at least another 2-3 go-rounds. I often will even continue on the following day for another go to be sure.

Obviously, goes without saying, you need the roads to do it, but where I live in the burbs but on the edge of rural Florida I've got quick access to plenty of empty, straight (and has to be said, boring for a GTI driver who spent the first half of his life in rural England) roads to get it done, including without the need to come to full stops to risk creating uneven spots on the rotors.
 

tigeo

Autocross Champion
Going on a tangent slightly, I feel as though EBCs rather long winded, high mileage 'street bedding process' is perhaps somewhat driven by concerns over potential lawsuits caused by what might be considered reckless driving in inappropriate circumstance if they advised otherwise...."Well I was only bedding my pads in as I was told to by EBC, officer :D " I continue to bed them as I always have, i.e. pretty much (after gently warming up pads and rotors first...but nowhere even near 'hundreds of miles....more like 5), I get into my series of 80-20mph progressively harder slow downs....then cruise around for a while to cool off, then rinse/repeat for at least another 2-3 go-rounds. I often will even continue on the following day for another go to be sure.

Obviously, goes without saying, you need the roads to do it, but where I live in the burbs but on the edge of rural Florida I've got quick access to plenty of empty, straight (and has to be said, boring for a GTI driver who spent the first half of his life in rural England) roads to get it done, including without the need to come to full stops to risk creating uneven spots on the rotors.
The reason EBC's pad bedding has a higher mileage (200 miles) is b/c of the bed-in coating on the pads that helps prep the rotors for bedding/pad material transfer. Their bed-in is to drive easy for the first 50 miles, then at 200 miles do the multi-slow downs from 60mph or whatever it is repeatedly to get them hot then drive without using the brakes for about 5 minutes. Not too complicated really.
 
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SouthFL_Mk7.5

Autocross Champion
Location
South Florida
Car(s)
2019 GTI S
I once made the mistake of swapping in a new set of EBC yellow (front) at the track. A worn in set of HP Plus was in back. Chaos ensued when I went back out on my next session. Rears were biting harder than the front. Had to come back in and put on the thin HP Plus fronts to finish the day.
 

YamR1rider

Drag Racing Champion
Location
Tampa, FL
Car(s)
2017 GTI Sport DSG
Yeah I get the bed-in coating, I just don't think it takes all those miles to get it done... mileage seems a loose, odd metric to me regarding brakes as 200 miles city would be different to 200 miles interstate driving. Never had a problem getting them bedded (much) sooner, doing it how I do although I acknowledge that EBC says it is longer than usual.

I can see how a pad swap at a track would be an issue, but you'd also have similar issues if you hot swapped non EBC yellow pads (albeit not for as long if you swapped like for like). All new pads need some cycling.
 

victorofhavoc

Autocross Champion
Location
Kansas City
If you get the metallic clink first time braking in either direction, that's an indicator the pad isn't sitting correctly. The spring clips are supposed to prevent the movement, but on the these cars there's a lot of tolerance on the rears for some reason and aftermarket pads almost never get it right. If you use the pp pad on non pp or non pp on the pp caliper (yes they can interchange) it will cause the movement and clink regardless of spring adjustment.

The oem pads are actually halfway decent and made by ferodo. Powerstop pads are pretty much trash. I've used them across 3 vehicles and never had good results. Ferodo, pagid, textar all make oe stuff for various brands and they're a far superior pad.

Hawk is cheap and okay, but tears up rotors and you end up changing rotors with nearly every pad change. Ebc is absolute garbage, don't buy the reds. (if anyone wants my ebc reds, they're nearly brand new and you're welcome to have them for free along with the rotors they ruined - just pay me shipping or pick them up). 🤣
 

Belthasar

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
PA (USA)
Car(s)
Mk7 GSW 4Mo 6MT
Dropping in for an update. I decided to just get the OEM front pads. Everything I read seems to be spot on: the clunk is always there, but the OEM pads have an extra layer of backing material that's softer than the metal plate, and it wraps around to the side of the pad that clunks in the carrier:

IMG_6555.jpg


It also appears that the seating springs are stainless or some higher quality metal than the brittle springs found on the power stop pads (that keep breaking and are easily bent out of shape). I also followed the iSweep's note about keeping the proper angle, along with their video that illustrates the proper way to install these pads without bending the springs out of shape:


I don't understand why it's so hard to find aftermarket pads that use similar backing and spring materials to the OEM ones, but it does seem to make a huge difference. If I listen hard enough, I can hear them clunk, but it's far more muted. In fact, the rear pads are loud AF in comparison, so I might just change those back to OEM.
 

victorofhavoc

Autocross Champion
Location
Kansas City
Dropping in for an update. I decided to just get the OEM front pads. Everything I read seems to be spot on: the clunk is always there, but the OEM pads have an extra layer of backing material that's softer than the metal plate, and it wraps around to the side of the pad that clunks in the carrier:

View attachment 276915

It also appears that the seating springs are stainless or some higher quality metal than the brittle springs found on the power stop pads (that keep breaking and are easily bent out of shape). I also followed the iSweep's note about keeping the proper angle, along with their video that illustrates the proper way to install these pads without bending the springs out of shape:


I don't understand why it's so hard to find aftermarket pads that use similar backing and spring materials to the OEM ones, but it does seem to make a huge difference. If I listen hard enough, I can hear them clunk, but it's far more muted. In fact, the rear pads are loud AF in comparison, so I might just change those back to OEM.
It's not that hard to find pads that have quality spring clips, you just have to expect to spend more than oem. Oem is the perfect compromise of quality to cost to cold grip because the engineers spent time to choose the best option for you. You can get more grip (with less life) and with a quality material/design, but you'll spend more...

The gloc pads i ran before came with tabs that had no springs, but I had to grind them down with a dremel to get them to fit. Once they fit they were super snug and weren't going anywhere, but they were also over 300$ for a set. The ferodo pads i run now are wonderful and make virtually no noise, but again costly...
 

Belthasar

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
PA (USA)
Car(s)
Mk7 GSW 4Mo 6MT
Actually, never mind. The OEM pads clunk pretty loudly, too, as I found out at the start of this cold morning.

Oh well.
 

Belthasar

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
PA (USA)
Car(s)
Mk7 GSW 4Mo 6MT
Are you using paste? Is the spring clip a tight fit?

Spring clip is very tight; I followed the procedure in the iSweep video to get it to seat without deforming it. Each pad is snug and will not move by finger force.

I used some grease at the contact points for the springs, as detailed in the erWin shop manual procedure for brake pad service.
 

tigeo

Autocross Champion
I have never had issues with the EBC pads w/r to spring retainers - I use them out back only now as I have a BBK but even when I ran them on my OE fronts, no issues with noise.
 
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