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DerHase's 2019 GTI Rabbit Edition: HPDE shenanigans

DerHase

Go Kart Champion
Location
Hampton Roads, VA
Car(s)
2019 GTI Rabbit
These DS2500s aren't the worst I've ever seen, but you can tell they're not happy about the abuse they saw 😂 Still probably fine enough to throw back on after the event for daily purposes.

Struts are out and being taken to work by a friend who will be putting the 034 camber mounts on. To be reinstalled and toe set tomorrow night. DS3.12s are already on, going to bleed the brakes again once it's all back together too.
 

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Dyoshi

New member
Location
WA
Car(s)
2017 Golf GTI Sport
Ah, good point. I don't have OEM brakes on any corner of my car anymore. I have a Baer front BBK which use C5 Corvette shaped pads which luckily are supported by every brake pad company these days.

I still use DS2500 for the rears as they don't get worked anywhere near as hard, sure it moves the brake bias forward as a result but it didn't appear to negatively impact my track day so far but will refine thought a bit as the season goes on.
Is it just me, or do you get squeaky brakes just before coming to stops? I ran DS2500 fronts for several months w/ no noise, then added rears recently and noticed it coming to a stop every time. I also agree the DS2500 does not cut it for continuous lapping in a single session. You can slowly feel the brake fade come on with each lap (also running RBF600).
 

gboticus

Drag Racing Champion
Location
Vancouver, BC
Car(s)
2019 R DSG
Is it just me, or do you get squeaky brakes just before coming to stops? I ran DS2500 fronts for several months w/ no noise, then added rears recently and noticed it coming to a stop every time. I also agree the DS2500 does not cut it for continuous lapping in a single session. You can slowly feel the brake fade come on with each lap (also running RBF600).
Squeaky brakes w/ the 2500? I do sometimes if there’s a big lull between track days and the rotors get wet a bunch of times but otherwise it’s whisper quiet.

The DS1.11 are like a banshee howling while someone is nails on chalkboard next to you while cold.
 

DerHase

Go Kart Champion
Location
Hampton Roads, VA
Car(s)
2019 GTI Rabbit
Is it just me, or do you get squeaky brakes just before coming to stops? I ran DS2500 fronts for several months w/ no noise, then added rears recently and noticed it coming to a stop every time. I also agree the DS2500 does not cut it for continuous lapping in a single session. You can slowly feel the brake fade come on with each lap (also running RBF600).
Not really. I've had a few times I thought I've heard something like a quick chirp, bit nothing I've been able to duplicate or really care about.

I've daily driven on G Loc R8/10/12s before. Noise doesn't bother me, but dust that embeds itself to the wheels does. Every set of wheels I ran on my Mazda2 were ruined (not that I cared TOO much because it was basically a dedicated track car), BUT I'd like to keep the GTI looking decent for a while. I just spent as much on 17in wheels as what two sets would have cost me in 15s 😂
 

DerHase

Go Kart Champion
Location
Hampton Roads, VA
Car(s)
2019 GTI Rabbit
Camber plates on, DS3.12s installed, brakes bled again, and toe was eyeballed straight. Going to recheck with toe plates tomorrow evening.

Big thanks to my buddy Bryan for installing the mounts at work (he's a VW tech) and throwing the strut assemblies back in tonight.

We pulled the brake backing plates while swapping pads.

I took it for a quick 8mi test drive. The pads are actually very tame. I got them hot to the point of smelling awful, they definitely bite harder when warm but it's nowhere near as grabby as GLoc R10s or 12s.

I was getting into ABS but may be from cold tires + TONS of OPR on the fronts (just rotated them front to back). Definitely wasn't over-sensitive or anything though.

Camber mounts are quiet aside from a bit of added NVH(no clunking or noises though). We put a thin dab of RTV between the (brand new) strut mount bearings and the 034 camber mounts. I figured hard plastic on aluminum was asking to spin/slip and make potential noises that some people complain of with these. This should make them "stick" to each other so that the only movement is the bearing itself as it should be.
 

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DerHase

Go Kart Champion
Location
Hampton Roads, VA
Car(s)
2019 GTI Rabbit
Washed the car last night just in time for the rain to start. Got engine oil temp and knock retard being loggable. Got OBDFusion set up to auto log CSV files to track stuff... On track. Main benefit is it'll just plain work. No futzing around or anything. Syncing with AIM data will be easy by just overlaying the vehicle speed and GPS speeds.

I made a separate thread here regarding logging with this app, my main motivation for using it is I can use it with ALL my vehicles. I have VCDS and ODIS already for VW specific stuff. I needed something generic that was iOS compatible.

https://www.golfmk7.com/forums/inde...ing-to-be-testing-obdfusion-next-week.401821/
 

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Mini7

Autocross Champion
Location
Charlotte, NC
Car(s)
2017 GTi Sport PP
Not really. I've had a few times I thought I've heard something like a quick chirp, bit nothing I've been able to duplicate or really care about.

I've daily driven on G Loc R8/10/12s before. Noise doesn't bother me, but dust that embeds itself to the wheels does. Every set of wheels I ran on my Mazda2 were ruined (not that I cared TOO much because it was basically a dedicated track car), BUT I'd like to keep the GTI looking decent for a while. I just spent as much on 17in wheels as what two sets would have cost me in 15s 😂
Subscribed.
R8’s embedded into my Enkie RPF 1’s on my Cooper S.

Have fun this weekend. I’ll be taking some RR on the weekend. Curious what the data logging will reveal.

I may do the FSR event. Got to fix a secondary air code And get new tires mounted. This will be my second Kombi valve.
 

DerHase

Go Kart Champion
Location
Hampton Roads, VA
Car(s)
2019 GTI Rabbit
Mostly packed and ready. Rain-Xed the windshield, threw new vinyl numbers on, and also decided to replace the battery (been intermittently throwing low voltage codes in multiple modules when I scanned it the last couple times).
Made a slight "downgrade" in capacity/size. Codes it as an AGM(fleece type), changed aH to 60, and changed the serial with VCDS. This battery was in stock, and has 3yr free replacement which I'm good with.

Greeted with dashboard lights but turning the wheel lock to lock took care of the SAS learn.

Now I gotta find time tomorrow to throw the old battery in the ocean before I head to VIR.
 

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DerHase

Go Kart Champion
Location
Hampton Roads, VA
Car(s)
2019 GTI Rabbit
Quick update on the VIR weekend - was a great time, will give a more in depth analysis of everything tomorrow but the brakes are much better, though I think the rear needs to be more aggressive now since the brake bias balance changes throughout the session (pushes more and more trying to get into ABS most notably in T1 and T11).

My data experiment was mostly successful. Need an intercooler, maybe an oil cooler, coolant temps are absolutely fine (at least until it gets tuned). Unfortunately it failed to record my 2nd Saturday session which had my fastest lap of the weekend (new PB of 2:20.93)... could have been quicker but I think the GT350 that wouldn't give a point by slowed me down just a tiny bit from T4-6.

Camber is great. I need more of it. Suspension feels really good although floaty of course but it has grip. I was working my speed up more and more - very end of this video I was going through part of the esses at 114mph.

Fastest overall lap was #4 - there was traffic on every other lap, so I mostly just focused increasing speed on T3-6, the upper esses, exiting Oak Tree, and Rollercoaster - Hog Pen.

 

DerHase

Go Kart Champion
Location
Hampton Roads, VA
Car(s)
2019 GTI Rabbit
So for more details now:

I was typically targeting a hot pressure of 32 or 33psi up front, and 32-33psi out back. I'm not generally too picky about it. I'd use 33psi if I came right off track without as much of a cooldown, or 32psi if I had almost an entire cooldown lap and/or if I drove all around paddock and up to the bridge and back. Seemed to work reasonably well. Was mostly just concentrating on driving the car.

So one of the things I was trying to accomplish (in the background and not having to think about it) was data. Temperatures for IAT vs AAT, coolant temp, and oil temps.

What a lot of people seem to say is that coolant temp is not able to be kept under control, and fixing that sometimes fixes the oil temps... on a STOCK tune my data at least says otherwise. Note that this was an incredibly slow session because of a ton of traffic. First session of Saturday... so it is mostly only useful for IAT monitoring.

Refresh rates are intentionally slow for the temperature channels because really they don't need to be super fast... the engine RPM was more important to log as a higher refresh rate. Speed and G Forces come from my AIM data.


I've got at least one more video where I have the temperature data, but I THINK it's the same session my AIM decided to shut off (because there was a black flag for a short while mid-session since someone crashed)... so GPS data may be non-existent... I am logging speed on both the OBDFusion and AIM... it makes it super easy to sync the data to each other and vs video (using the AIM lap segments). This last video will be good because it'll show how badly the stock IC heatsoaks, and how quickly(or not) it comes back down.

In a nutshell, stock intercooler has to go, though as far as track duty goes... it's better than I expected it to be (at 30-50F over ambient at times). I was honestly expecting to see it heatsoak to +70-80 over ambient. Not ideal... but not dangerous by any means. On a stage 1 tune... I imagine it would absolutely be an issue.

For the time being, here is the raw data from that session:
https://datazap.me/u/derhase/vir-full-temp-logs-0?log=0&data=1-2-3-5-7

As mentioned above, front pads are amazing. Rotors up front are starting to show minor heat checking so I'm guessing 2-4 more days left on them (already have a pair new in box waiting). The only issue is they grip harder and harder with heat as the session goes on... and the rear starts to drop off and it becomes VERY easy to get into just the front ABS. It beats losing the pedal entirely... but could be better with more aggressive rear pads. Going to buy some DS3000s some time in the next month or two. The DS3.12 pads never felt like a "race" pad daily driving them a bit beforehand... I can't speak for COLD temperatures just yet (been 60F+ mostly), but on track the first couple applications you could tell they didn't bite as hard as you'd expect (but still better than the DS2500s when kind of warm). They get better after a lap or so and seemed to stay pretty consistent. I think my problem is rears getting hot and front tires greasing up.

I don't believe oil temps ever exceeded 270F over the weekend (I keep it on the dash and check on the straights). Probably partially because of the traffic in the intermediate/novice mixed group. Coolant temps were solid at 210F or so the entire time while actually moving on track. So a radiator at THIS time is not even being considered. IF I do an oil cooler, I think I'll go with the iAbed kit, because frankly I hate the idea of deleting the OEM oil filter. IF I were to go with the VWR kit, I'd probably have just as much or more money into it because I'd relocate the oil filter so it can take a regular spin on type that does NOT drip all over the engine when changed. Perhaps behind a fog light using a large capacity mopar filter or something. But again... not crazy about messing with the oiling system on this motor.

I never noticed any issues with smoking, etc. I added a tiny bit of oil before the event and never needed to do anything else. Going to avoid having to go to a catch can for as long as I can get away with it. If I do one, it'll probably be one that retains the OEM PCV.

In the last session or two of the day I noticed the car feeling very floaty on the back straight - like if I slowly moved the wheel the car would want to turn WAY more than anticipated. I can feel it just driving at highway speeds a bit as well. I'm not sure if it's because the tires are worn primarily on the outsides and I have basically very little inside contact patch, or if there may be something loose up front. My toe is the same as I set it up front right before leaving at 1mm toe in. (Was targeting 0 but honestly I'm not super picky, as long as it won't murder tires). Getting ready to go on a cruise next week so I'll probably put it up on jacks in the garage for a quick once-over and then investigate when I come back if it's not something obvious.

Next steps for the car are an intercooler and DS3000 rear pads, plus some wheel studs. Probably won't happen this year, but CSS knuckles may be a future move as well. The added camber I got is great, but more will be betterer.
 

scrllock

Autocross Champion
Location
MI
Kinda interesting data. Looks like your ambient was pretty similar as up here on Sunday. You get a lot more high speed sections though, really drives oil temps up. The lower cylinder head temp targeting tables do seem to make a difference, but the R bumper and aux rad likely do more for this car than any of the aftermarket main radiators would.


IMO the intercooler is definitely the way to go. Like the idea of the iabed cooler but prefer to maintain my heat exchanger here up north.

So the 3.12 is streetable in warm temps? Interesting. Assumed it would be even more hardcore than 1.11 (which as noted, is quite loud on the road). Haven't considered much besides 2500 and 1.11 to swap in on the front.
 

DerHase

Go Kart Champion
Location
Hampton Roads, VA
Car(s)
2019 GTI Rabbit
Kinda interesting data. Looks like your ambient was pretty similar as up here on Sunday. You get a lot more high speed sections though, really drives oil temps up. The lower cylinder head temp targeting tables do seem to make a difference, but the R bumper and aux rad likely do more for this car than any of the aftermarket main radiators would.


IMO the intercooler is definitely the way to go. Like the idea of the iabed cooler but prefer to maintain my heat exchanger here up north.

So the 3.12 is streetable in warm temps? Interesting. Assumed it would be even more hardcore than 1.11 (which as noted, is quite loud on the road). Haven't considered much besides 2500 and 1.11 to swap in on the front.

Yeah in all reality the less non-OE plumbing of slippery liquids I can get away with... The better. Probably won't be running in such hot temps again this year, but perhaps next summer I'll try running straight water(and a bit of water wetter) since it SHOULD also make the water to oil heat exchanger more efficient in pulling heat from the oil.

I haven't notice any real issues. I'll get a video in a few weeks (departing for a cruise on Saturday!). Honestly may be a difference in harmonics for the PP vs base brakes.

Also here is more temp data overlaid as mentioned above:


The Aim Solo shut off when sitting in the pits halfway through the session due to the black flag, so I added the OBDII speed info as well (and you can see how far off it is up until the Aim shut down). The 245/40R17 is a little smaller than stock FWIW.
 
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