Crank walk / class action (we need to get together)

[cb1111]

Is there a clear pattern to which clutches are seeing the highest rates?

I think it is from the vendor who started the poll on VWVortex - which is why I said that this may backfire on them.

 

[dosjockey]

Is there a clear pattern to which clutches are seeing the highest rates?

That would go a long way to determining just what that bearing can take.

 

[dietcokefiend]

Is there a clear pattern to which clutches are seeing the highest rates?

There is a brand that used an exceptionally strong pressure plate that had the highest failures. Like almost all initial failures mentioned that brand by name, and as crankwalk issues came up and people said what they had installed it was a common trend.

Someone on VWVortex has a thread with estimates or actual pressure plate spring rates, where the worst offenders were also one in the same with the failures centered on them.

I still don’t agree with the continued phrasing of the thrust bearing having a poor design or defective design. For the stock intended usecase it has low and normal failure rates. For the DSG transmission, you can go sky’s the limit without failing it. It’s a corner case of modifying the car, needing a stronger clutch, using one that gets better torque rating through clamping force that ultimately kills it.

Maybe I’m getting old in my ripe age of nearing 40, but I remember the time when tuning a car actually demanded lots of work. New camshafts, new fuel systems, projects taking a summer to finish. Now it’s turned into buy a system off Amazon or other sites (or drive to a APR dealer), get a tune program and be at like 40% more HP/torque in less than an hour of work. Then complain when stock parts fail or that it needs actual mechanical work to follow through. Tuning as never been this easy and people seem to be forgetting the times of busting knuckles or building up a garage of tools to get things done.

 

[dosjockey]

At least as copied on the first page of this thread, the numbers weren't high enough to mean much of anything.

Can someone on facebook paste a screen cap of the current poll?

 

[RichardCranium]

I see your devils advocate play and ignore it because it’s silly. Borderline forcing the consumer to buy the OEM clutch instead of a potentially better aftermarket one, i regardless of tune, or face face the consequence of engine failure is ridiculous design.

Maybe I won’t change my tires. Don’t want any additional rotational weight shredding my drivetrain.

Right?

While we're at it, VW should build the motor much stronger in these cars too, because I want to make 600 hp.

 

[Ridebjj]

I can't say that it contributes to crank walk but if it does the magnets thing someone posted in another thread which allows him to start his car without pushing in the clutch would certainly help.

That was me and it is why I did it. My stock clutch started slipping shortly after going stage 2. I've got an rsr replacement sitting in the garage, waiting to be put in (waiting for warmer weather).

Shortly after starting my research into what clutches I might go with I stumbled onto the crank walk / upgraded clutch hypothesis and decided figuring out a solution was a worthwhile side project before putting the new one in and subjecting the bearings to all that additional force at cold start.

Now I'm considering what would be involved in opening up the bottom and swapping in a sturdier thrust bearing for even more future proofing.

 

[RichardCranium]

You own a car company - are you going to engineer your engines/transmissions with possible non-OEM/aftermarket parts in mind/part of your design? And the total user-ship that *may* upgrade is probably 1% of all owners. Come on man - it's just not realistic.

And they'll charge more for it too, because their profit margin is going to be the same. Do you want to pay more for an overbuilt car or one that's price competitive with its competition?

 

[dosjockey]

That was me and it is why I did it. My stock clutch started slipping shortly after going stage 2. I've got an rsr replacement sitting in the garage, waiting to be put in (waiting for warmer weather).

Shortly after starting my research into what clutches I might go with I stumbled onto the crank walk / upgraded clutch hypothesis and decided figuring out a solution was a worthwhile side project before putting the new one in and subjecting the bearings to all that additional force at cold start.

Now I'm considering what would be involved in opening up the bottom and swapping in a sturdier thrust bearing for even more future proofing.

Got a link to your thread?

How do the starter and battery respond to having to spin up part of the transmission as well as the engine?

 

[Ridebjj]

Got a link to your thread?

How do the starter and battery respond to having to spin up part of the transmission as well as the engine?

Thread is on page 2 somewhere. "clutch start defeat solved (maybe)" is the title.

I don't understand your second question. The car starts exactly the same from all appearances. If anything it seems to fire up even faster. Is there a big difference between neutral via clutch in VS neutral with tranny not in gear?

I'm not the first person to figure out the concept. Just (I think) the first to create an automated solution. Other people are putting magnets at the end of a stick and holding them into the right place.

 

[A7xogg]

That was me and it is why I did it. My stock clutch started slipping shortly after going stage 2. I've got an rsr replacement sitting in the garage, waiting to be put in (waiting for warmer weather).

Shortly after starting my research into what clutches I might go with I stumbled onto the crank walk / upgraded clutch hypothesis and decided figuring out a solution was a worthwhile side project before putting the new one in and subjecting the bearings to all that additional force at cold start.

Now I'm considering what would be involved in opening up the bottom and swapping in a sturdier thrust bearing for even more future proofing.

Local guy has I believe 60-70k on his rsr clutch upgrade, 90+k miles on him apr tuned mk7.

 

[nonegiven]

Local guy has I believe 60-70k on his rsr clutch upgrade, 90+k miles on him apr tuned mk7.

The RSR has a very mild pressure plate that won't add much pressure.

 

[Hoon]

I still don’t agree with the continued phrasing of the thrust bearing having a poor design or defective design. For the stock intended usecase it has low and normal failure rates. For the DSG transmission, you can go sky’s the limit without failing it. It’s a corner case of modifying the car, needing a stronger clutch, using one that gets better torque rating through clamping force that ultimately kills it.

Maybe I’m getting old in my ripe age of nearing 40, but I remember the time when tuning a car actually demanded lots of work. New camshafts, new fuel systems, projects taking a summer to finish. Now it’s turned into buy a system off Amazon or other sites (or drive to a APR dealer), get a tune program and be at like 40% more HP/torque in less than an hour of work. Then complain when stock parts fail or that it needs actual mechanical work to follow through. Tuning as never been this easy and people seem to be forgetting the times of busting knuckles or building up a garage of tools to get things done.

Completely understand your point, but keep in mind VW is using a single 180 degree bearing on the #3 main cap. It's only sandwiched in place between the crank and webbing in the block, nothing to retain it or prevent it from falling right out of the block with a bit of wear.

It may be something VW cheaped out on because manual cars don't sell very well anymore, and DSGs have no thrust load.

Maybe they are running such a small thrust bearing for MPG (reduced contact area means reduced friction). In tearing down my motor I've come across several things that clearly emphasize MPG over long term reliability.

Regardless of the thought behind it, the design really looks like bare minimum. VW could have done better, but they certainly aren't responsible for failure with a heavy clutch.

 

[A7xogg]

The RSR has a very mild pressure plate that won't add much pressure.

Which makes it a great option for 6mt guys who need a clutch and are worried about cw

 

[Twist1]

Is there a clear pattern to which clutches are seeing the highest rates?

DKM twin disc

 

[GroceryGTIer]

Which makes it a great option for 6mt guys who need a clutch and are worried about cw

There is a brand that used an exceptionally strong pressure plate that had the highest failures. Like almost all initial failures mentioned that brand by name, and as crankwalk issues came up and people said what they had installed it was a common trend.

Someone on VWVortex has a thread with estimates or actual pressure plate spring rates, where the worst offenders were also one in the same with the failures centered on them.

I still don’t agree with the continued phrasing of the thrust bearing having a poor design or defective design. For the stock intended usecase it has low and normal failure rates. For the DSG transmission, you can go sky’s the limit without failing it. It’s a corner case of modifying the car, needing a stronger clutch, using one that gets better torque rating through clamping force that ultimately kills it.

Maybe I’m getting old in my ripe age of nearing 40, but I remember the time when tuning a car actually demanded lots of work. New camshafts, new fuel systems, projects taking a summer to finish. Now it’s turned into buy a system off Amazon or other sites (or drive to a APR dealer), get a tune program and be at like 40% more HP/torque in less than an hour of work. Then complain when stock parts fail or that it needs actual mechanical work to follow through. Tuning as never been this easy and people seem to be forgetting the times of busting knuckles or building up a garage of tools to get things done.

Yep, may as well let the clutch take the hit instead of a major issue in the engine