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Crank walk / class action (we need to get together)

jimlloyd40

Autocross Champion
Location
Phoenix
Car(s)
2018 SE DSG
I can't see this getting certified as a class action

Completely agree. Just not nearly enough complaints to justify it especially when it seems like it's more likely with an aftermarket clutch which wouldn't be VW's problem. For every OEM clutched car that experiences crank walk there's probably thousands of Golfs that have the thermostat housing leak and that hasn't resulted in a class action suit that I'm aware of.
 

kak

Go Kart Newbie
Location
Morgantown, WV
Car(s)
2019 R 6MT
OK, I'm confused. We have a problem that happens only on cars with aftermarket clutches (with very few exceptions), which sounds like it isn't a VW problem.

Who are you going to sue? VW? The aftermarket clutch company? The distributor of said aftermarket clutch?
Being a realist, an aftermarket clutch shouldn’t cause crank walk.

Also being a realist, there’s no way this meets the threshold for class action or a recall. VW will repair those that fall under valid warranty claims (virgin drivetrains and no flags) as they arrive. Otherwise they’ll have garage after garage filled with engine bays being torn apart.

Good thing the 2019s still have a good warranty :)
 

jimlloyd40

Autocross Champion
Location
Phoenix
Car(s)
2018 SE DSG
Being a realist, an aftermarket clutch shouldn’t cause crank walk.

Also being a realist, there’s no way this meets the threshold for class action or a recall. VW will repair those that fall under valid warranty claims (virgin drivetrains and no flags) as they arrive. Otherwise they’ll have garage after garage filled with engine bays being torn apart.

Good thing the 2019s still have a good warranty :)

Why would they have garage after garage filled up when this is such an uncommon problem? Especially with the OEM clutch.
 

dietcokefiend

Master of Disaster
Location
Ohio
To put this stuff in perspective, look at my stalling thread and the main highlights.

1. I had a huge grass roots awareness campaign that came about right as the 2019 GTI picked up steam.
2. Replies to the thread here and Reddit were insane... thousands and thousands of replies.
3. Cases were persued at many dealers, attempts were made to repair and lots of informal and formal discussion on the topic from car owners and dealers alike.
4. I got 150+ tracked complaints submitted to the NHTSA. All publicly visible.
5. I submitted a huge petition for defect investigation letter and got the federal gears turning myself.

All that might sound cocky and awesome, but at the end of the day zero... and I mean zero law firms cared. The group was too small, even if it was all 2019 GTIs produced. Compare that to a Camry or something, which probably sells more in a month or even week than the GTI sells in a year and you get the picture. This crankwalk affected owners pool is even smaller. My biggest moment of awareness was just getting an idea of how no one really cared lol.

Get complaints submitted, see if you can move the needle. I wish this wasn't so negative sounding, but to be honest the same guys running the Facebook poll were the ones that didn't care 1% of the stalling issue. I reached out to them to build awareness, they didn't really care. The door swings both ways, but now that it is apparently hitting them they want the community to rally behind them. It's even trickier when you throw the aftermarket parts situation, where most of the stalling guys were arguing about if 5w40 oil could cause warranties to be voided. Most, if not the entire pool of crankwalk cars are heavily modified and tuned. The upgrade clutch and pressure plate, which puts an insane amount of force on the bearing over stock is the root of the issue for most.

Lastly, as much as I would like to help this or the coolant leak issue (my Passat even has that problem), no one wants to go that NHTSA complaint step to push the issue formally to a head to have evidence that a petition can use to try to start something.
 

Hunter1Lane

New member
Location
Louisville
Almost all the failures have been with the twin disk clutch that's rated for 690ft pounds of torque. Yes other clutches have caused the issue and stock cars too, but that clutch and smf clutches are at least 90% of failures

All the mechanics I talk to say no matter what happened is that upgrading a clutch should not cause crank walk? So if manuals, other clutch companies, DSG walked and considering the fact that VW put a GTI clutch in the R’s which is way under rated for that car then they have to of known something. I had an RSR that went out after 1yr and then I went DKM on a brand new R and 6mo later on a brand new car I have had engine failure. I also have a clutch stop/harmonic balanced and honestly was easy on the engine. So I’m say VW
 

dietcokefiend

Master of Disaster
Location
Ohio
All the mechanics I talk to say no matter what happened is that upgrading a clutch should not cause crank walk? So if manuals, other clutch companies, DSG walked and considering the fact that VW put a GTI clutch in the R’s which is way under rated for that car then they have to of known something. I had an RSR that went out after 1yr and then I went DKM on a brand new R and 6mo later on a brand new car I have had engine failure. I also have a clutch stop/harmonic balanced and honestly was easy on the engine. So I’m say VW

Not supposed to is not the same thing as was designed to. If the car stock can handle its rated performance levels with normal failure rates, its not really the fault of the manufacturer that it starts to fail as soon as people upgrade it. Some engines through the years have been designed to be very upgrade friendly through specific design choices or just being over-built in general. You find that a lot in diesel engines and many older blocks that were just built like brick shit houses cause it was easier to overbuild than not.

The crankwalk issue that the EA888 apparently has in some areas is the 180-degree thrust bearing (which is a very common design these days) isn't as strong for upgraded clutches as past 360-degree bearings. Some failures are sprinkled in on stock cars, but if you look at the entire production versus those stock cars, its barely a blip. Manufacturing flaws could easily encompass those, and be totally normal versus like model vehicles.

I think the tuning market in general is focusing their energy in the wrong area. Crankwalk is a problem on upgraded clutches, the issue is a small bearing, not a faulty bearing. Performance junkies will spend countless dollars on upgraded parts, sweet looking exhaust systems, ECU tunes, etc etc... why not budget to include machine shop time to machine a full diameter bearing? The problem has been solved for the most part by many independent outfits as we've seen linked to across the various threads. Machine a bearing cap, include a larger or additional thrust washer, reinstall. A sub $500 solution is already out there, which a competent machine shop could handle. If the aftermarket sees this as a large enough opportunity, maybe someone should start a commercial process of upgrading existing crank bearing caps (ship yours in, they machine it and ship it back).

These are the same guys that swap in metal oil pans vs plastic, upgrade turbos, hell... upgrade the clutch itself in the first place. Why can't they also account for an upgraded bearing in the process?
 

GroceryGTIer

Drag Racing Champion
Location
Tri-state
Not supposed to is not the same thing as was designed to. If the car stock can handle its rated performance levels with normal failure rates, its not really the fault of the manufacturer that it starts to fail as soon as people upgrade it. Some engines through the years have been designed to be very upgrade friendly through specific design choices or just being over-built in general. You find that a lot in diesel engines and many older blocks that were just built like brick shit houses cause it was easier to overbuild than not.

The crankwalk issue that the EA888 apparently has in some areas is the 180-degree thrust bearing (which is a very common design these days) isn't as strong for upgraded clutches as past 360-degree bearings. Some failures are sprinkled in on stock cars, but if you look at the entire production versus those stock cars, its barely a blip. Manufacturing flaws could easily encompass those, and be totally normal versus like model vehicles.

I think the tuning market in general is focusing their energy in the wrong area. Crankwalk is a problem on upgraded clutches, the issue is a small bearing, not a faulty bearing. Performance junkies will spend countless dollars on upgraded parts, sweet looking exhaust systems, ECU tunes, etc etc... why not budget to include machine shop time to machine a full diameter bearing? The problem has been solved for the most part by many independent outfits as we've seen linked to across the various threads. Machine a bearing cap, include a larger or additional thrust washer, reinstall. A sub $500 solution is already out there, which a competent machine shop could handle. If the aftermarket sees this as a large enough opportunity, maybe someone should start a commercial process of upgrading existing crank bearing caps (ship yours in, they machine it and ship it back).

These are the same guys that swap in metal oil pans vs plastic, upgrade turbos, hell... upgrade the clutch itself in the first place. Why can't they also account for an upgraded bearing in the process?

I’m not pointing fingers, but on the Evos, a lot of people complained about the stock clutch, however, there are some who just can’t drive a manual, though, they think they can.
 

Ridebjj

Autocross Champion
Location
lasVegas
Can replacing the suspect thrust bearings be done in-situ from underneath like the BMW guys do with rod bearings?
 

dietcokefiend

Master of Disaster
Location
Ohio
I’m not pointing fingers, but on the Evos, a lot of people complained about the stock clutch, however, there are some who just can’t drive a manual, though, they think they can.

Its been a while since I went down the path of the 4g63 issue, but I seem to recall that problem was a number of issues. Too little oilflow to the main bearings, some blocked passages found during teardowns, sloppy thrust bearing machining. Lots of weird things people were trying to fix to get it in working order.
 

dietcokefiend

Master of Disaster
Location
Ohio
Can replacing the suspect thrust bearings be done in-situ from underneath like the BMW guys do with rod bearings?

Yes. Remove the oil pan, remove the windage tray and you can pull the bearing to inspect or replace from below. A few people on the Facebook groups have done it, some found increased wear and swapped in a new bearings.
 
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