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Consolidated Macan Brembo upgrade thread (READ FIRST POST)

emichel6888

Go Kart Champion
Location
TX
Today I drove a friend's 19 Rabbit Edition with the stock PP brakes. With the red rubber grease and bleeding in the VW order, then going back and doing 29psi simultaneously bleeding the fronts, mine felt about the same.
I am not surprised, if you look at my post doing the RPV's alone only gave a slight improvement. It wasn't until I greased the seals with the RPV's installed that I got a big improvement where now the pedal does not go soft with the engine running. It is about keeping the MC in stage 1, doing both is what gets you there. Doing each separately provides only a slight improvement, sorry I thought I made that clear, but perhaps not.

Once the MC piston travels past a certain point it goes to stage 2 and drastically changes the MC/caliper displacement ratio. See below, that is what causes the pedal to soften, see image below. The lube or the RPV alone reduce the gap between the pad and rotor which helps a little but the MC still moves into stage 2, it is when you do both and you reduce the pad/rotor gap even further that prevents the MC from moving into stage 2 and you get a much firmer and higher pedal with significantly better feel. You have to use more muscle but in a good way for threshold braking. Make sense?

Brake pedal theory.jpg


If you recall when I had the RPV's at the MC it felt awesome but I was getting drag at the rear, then I put the RPV's in the wheel well and it helped but I was not exactly thrilled after feeling what it was like with the RPV's at the MC. Then when I greased the seals with the RPV's that is when it gave the results I was looking for, not quite as good as having the RPV's at the MC but still a huge improvement where the pedal does not go soft with the engine vacuum assist on.
I showed you all pedal measurements, but that is only half the story, I can't really demonstrate the improved feel, but I am telling you...

If you look at my test data the grease and the RPV's separately each give similar reduction in piston retraction. Do both then tell me what you think.

Post reference: Post #6 How to fix/improve low soft Brake pedal with Residual Pressure Valves and seal lube

2020-12-06 14_54_39-How to fix_improve low soft Brake pedal with Residual Pressure Valves and ...jpg

.0005" doesn't seem like much but trust me...

As for the stock single piston caliper I found very similar results:
2020-12-06 15_01_59-How to fix_improve stock caliper.jpg

I am fairly certain you will get the same results with the stock calipers. The main difference with the stock calipers is they have no piston coating, which is why the OEM requires seal lube. Out of curiosity I tested them with no lube just brake fluid on the seal and the retraction jumped to .024" you definitely don't want that, I bet the pedal would almost be to the floor.
 

GTIfan99

Autocross Champion
Location
FL
I am not surprised, if you look at my post doing the RPV's alone only gave a slight improvement. It wasn't until I greased the seals with the RPV's installed that I got a big improvement where now the pedal does not go soft with the engine running. It is about keeping the MC in stage 1, doing both is what gets you there. Doing each separately provides only a slight improvement, sorry I thought I made that clear, but perhaps not.

Once the MC piston travels past a certain point it goes to stage 2 and drastically changes the MC/caliper displacement ratio. See below, that is what causes the pedal to soften, see image below. The lube or the RPV alone reduce the gap between the pad and rotor which helps a little but the MC still moves into stage 2, it is when you do both and you reduce the pad/rotor gap even further that prevents the MC from moving into stage 2 and you get a much firmer and higher pedal with significantly better feel. You have to use more muscle but in a good way for threshold braking. Make sense?

View attachment 195236

If you recall when I had the RPV's at the MC it felt awesome but I was getting drag at the rear, then I put the RPV's in the wheel well and it helped but I was not exactly thrilled after feeling what it was like with the RPV's at the MC. Then when I greased the seals with the RPV's that is when it gave the results I was looking for, not quite as good as having the RPV's at the MC but still a huge improvement where the pedal does not go soft with the engine vacuum assist on.
I showed you all pedal measurements, but that is only half the story, I can't really demonstrate the improved feel, but I am telling you...

If you look at my test data the grease and the RPV's separately each give similar reduction in piston retraction. Do both then tell me what you think.

Post reference: Post #6 How to fix/improve low soft Brake pedal with Residual Pressure Valves and seal lube

View attachment 195231
.0005" doesn't seem like much but trust me...

As for the stock single piston caliper I found very similar results:
View attachment 195232
I am fairly certain you will get the same results with the stock calipers. The main difference with the stock calipers is they have no piston coating, which is why the OEM requires seal lube. Out of curiosity I tested them with no lube just brake fluid on the seal and the retraction jumped to .024" you definitely don't want that, I bet the pedal would almost be to the floor.

I'm happy with a good bleed and the red rubber gease, my modding philosophy is always keep it simple as possible, so I think I'm done.
 

emichel6888

Go Kart Champion
Location
TX
I'm happy with a good bleed and the red rubber gease, my modding philosophy is always keep it simple as possible, so I think I'm done.

IMO adding an inline valve is about as simple as modifications get, but suit yourself.

I only responded because your comment seemed to imply that lubing the seals alone would make a big difference, and you just discovered that it did not. I just wanted it understood, that is not what my posts say, and to make it clear for those that do want to significantly improve brake pedal feel and response, they have to do both steps.
IMO properly greasing the piston seals is actually a lot more work (if they are already installed), if that is already done adding the inline RPV's is a very simple modification. Given all the time, effort, and money already put into these brake modifications, to not do these relatively cheap and simple adjustments just seems a shame to me, but if you are happy as is, to each there own.

Cheers
 

GTIfan99

Autocross Champion
Location
FL
IMO adding an inline valve is about as simple as modifications get, but suit yourself.

I only responded because your comment seemed to imply that lubing the seals alone would make a big difference, and you just discovered that it did not. I just wanted it understood, that is not what my posts say, and to make it clear for those that do want to significantly improve brake pedal feel and response, they have to do both steps.
IMO properly greasing the piston seals is actually a lot more work (if they are already installed), if that is already done adding the inline RPV's is a very simple modification. Given all the time, effort, and money already put into these brake modifications, to not do these relatively cheap and simple adjustments just seems a shame to me, but if you are happy as is, to each there own.

Cheers

It got me back to the feel of the stock PP's, I'm good with that.

My PP fronts are now on a non-PP car and feel the best of any factory setup I've felt. It seems to me non-
PP rears have a big affect on brake feel too.
 

Raguvian

Go Kart Champion
Location
Denver
Car(s)
2019 GSW 4MO 6MT
I would be happy with PP level brakes, considering I have 288mm fronts and god knows what for rear brakes lol
 

anotero

Autocross Champion
Location
Hither and thither
Car(s)
Mk7 GTI
Put the template on my new Hartmanns today. Thankfully, they don’t fit. Just touching the barrels. I was thinking of going this way as I will need brakes within 10k. But now I can just get some pads, rotors, and maybe some stainless lines for my PP. Sparing me the $500 caliper hit, which is not bad but is not pocket change either.

Which Hartmanns do you have?
 

dynamisoz

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
USA NJ
Will these mod work on 2020 Audi A3??? on the op it doesnt say its for the A3. or i've miss something
 

GTIfan99

Autocross Champion
Location
FL
Will these mod work on 2020 Audi A3??? on the op it doesnt say its for the A3. or i've miss something

It'll work with your A3.
 

Guillermo Ruggeri

New member
Location
Argentine
Car(s)
PASSAT B8 2017
Hi, thanks for all the data. I´m studding to replace my stock front brake.
I have a VW PASSAT B8 3G2 2017 with APR STAGE 1, stock calipers with brembo disck and pads, ECS lines, Eibach Pro KIT, K&N filter, inlet pipe and others changes.
I use with family and I do 5 or 6 tracks a year.
When I use in tracks days my front caliper goes up temp, to 350 celcius grades (662F). The car stop well but the pads consumes too quickly.
I want to upgrade to MACAN calliper. My car have the AUDI S3 8V 5Q0407253A left front steering knuckle (5Q0407254A right).
Do you know if it fits?
I use VW 18" wheel with Pirelli slicks ET44 for track and VW 19" ET48 with MPS4S for city/road or wet track
WHEEL19.png

The brake house is the same than ECS Stainsless steel brake lines?
Someone use ferodo DS2500 pads for this calipers?
Thanks!
PASSAT5.jpg
5Q0407253A.png
 

GTIfan99

Autocross Champion
Location
FL
Hi, thanks for all the data. I´m studding to replace my stock front brake.
I have a VW PASSAT B8 3G2 2017 with APR STAGE 1, stock calipers with brembo disck and pads, ECS lines, Eibach Pro KIT, K&N filter, inlet pipe and others changes.
I use with family and I do 5 or 6 tracks a year.
When I use in tracks days my front caliper goes up temp, to 350 celcius grades (662F). The car stop well but the pads consumes too quickly.
I want to upgrade to MACAN calliper. My car have the AUDI S3 8V 5Q0407253A left front steering knuckle (5Q0407254A right).
Do you know if it fits?
I use VW 18" wheel with Pirelli slicks ET44 for track and VW 19" ET48 with MPS4S for city/road or wet track
View attachment 197816
The brake house is the same than ECS Stainsless steel brake lines?
Someone use ferodo DS2500 pads for this calipers?
Thanks!
View attachment 197814View attachment 197815

If the stock brakes are the same as the GTI non-PP brakes, then you should be good. If not, then I doubt it.

One way you could figure that out is look at the big brake kits on ECS and see if they're listed as compatible with your model. If so, then you should be good.
 

Guillermo Ruggeri

New member
Location
Argentine
Car(s)
PASSAT B8 2017
My caliper es Mi VW/AUDI caliper P/N is: TRW 6799/f 6798/f

Because I have to import to Argentine and here all is too dificult, I need to be shure

My car is listed in: https://www.killerbrakes.com/produc...b615123f-95b615124f-brembo-4pot-calipers-new/

Thanks

Application:
  • Audi TT TTS TTRS 8J 8S 2007-Present
  • Audi A4 A5 S4 S5 B8
  • Audi A3 8p 8V
  • Audi S3 8p 8v
  • Audi Q3 , Rsq3 2014-present
  • Volkswagen Golf 5,6,7, 7.5 R, GTi R32 R20
  • Volkswagen Passat B8 , Passat CC
  • Volkswagen Tiguan 2008-present
  • Volkswagen Arteon
  • Volkswagen T-Roc
  • Seat Leon 1P , Cupra R
  • Seat Leon 5F Fr, Cupra
  • Seat Ateca
  • Skoda Octavia RS 2008-present
  • Skoda Superb 2017-present
Weight Reduction:
Stock mk7 R calipers weight 8.6kg with pads

Porsche Macan 4pot calipers weight 5.8kg with pads!!!

What is included:
  • 1x OEM Porsche Macan Brembo 4pot Calipers Left and Right , Product code 95B615123F 95B615124F(8R0-615-107G,8R0-615-108G) NEW
  • 2x Pins sets and pad holders product code 8R0 698 269 A NEW
  • 1x OEM Porsche brake pads with wear sensors 8R0 698 151 H NEW
Requirements:
  • Minimum wheel size 18″ (will fit also some 17″ depending on spokes design)
  • Metallic Hel brake lines (can be ordered from here)
  • Audi S3 8p/Vw Golf 6R20 345x30mm Brake discs, Product code: 1K0615301M
  • Golf 7R 7.5 Gti performance pack Audi S3 8v TTS 8S Seat Cupra 5F 340x30mm Brake discs, Product code: 1K0615301AD
  • Audi A4 A5 B8 , the S4 S5 B8 brake discs are needed 345x30mm, Product code: 4G0615301G
  • depending on your wheels ET and J you might need spacers(Ex: with Oz Ultrallegera 19″ Et45 8J no spacers are required)
 

scrapin240

Drag Racing Champion
Location
IzzaGolf
Car(s)
Golf
My caliper es Mi VW/AUDI caliper P/N is: TRW 6799/f 6798/f

Because I have to import to Argentine and here all is too dificult, I need to be shure

My car is listed in: https://www.killerbrakes.com/produc...b615123f-95b615124f-brembo-4pot-calipers-new/

Thanks

Application:
  • Audi TT TTS TTRS 8J 8S 2007-Present
  • Audi A4 A5 S4 S5 B8
  • Audi A3 8p 8V
  • Audi S3 8p 8v
  • Audi Q3 , Rsq3 2014-present
  • Volkswagen Golf 5,6,7, 7.5 R, GTi R32 R20
  • Volkswagen Passat B8 , Passat CC
  • Volkswagen Tiguan 2008-present
  • Volkswagen Arteon
  • Volkswagen T-Roc
  • Seat Leon 1P , Cupra R
  • Seat Leon 5F Fr, Cupra
  • Seat Ateca
  • Skoda Octavia RS 2008-present
  • Skoda Superb 2017-present
Weight Reduction:
Stock mk7 R calipers weight 8.6kg with pads

Porsche Macan 4pot calipers weight 5.8kg with pads!!!

What is included:
  • 1x OEM Porsche Macan Brembo 4pot Calipers Left and Right , Product code 95B615123F 95B615124F(8R0-615-107G,8R0-615-108G) NEW
  • 2x Pins sets and pad holders product code 8R0 698 269 A NEW
  • 1x OEM Porsche brake pads with wear sensors 8R0 698 151 H NEW
Requirements:
  • Minimum wheel size 18″ (will fit also some 17″ depending on spokes design)
  • Metallic Hel brake lines (can be ordered from here)
  • Audi S3 8p/Vw Golf 6R20 345x30mm Brake discs, Product code: 1K0615301M
  • Golf 7R 7.5 Gti performance pack Audi S3 8v TTS 8S Seat Cupra 5F 340x30mm Brake discs, Product code: 1K0615301AD
  • Audi A4 A5 B8 , the S4 S5 B8 brake discs are needed 345x30mm, Product code: 4G0615301G
  • depending on your wheels ET and J you might need spacers(Ex: with Oz Ultrallegera 19″ Et45 8J no spacers are required)
looks like you answered your own question :)

I do not like these brakes on track, some others do. Maybe order the pressure valve stuff too since you have to order everything, but I'm going back to stock brakes. I wore down all the pads variations in about two track days with these brakes. I've hit temps into almost 1,000F on stock and these
 

GTIfan99

Autocross Champion
Location
FL
The feel of these have gotten better for me with the obd11 tweaks, a good bleed with RBF660, and Castrol Red Rubber grease.

Some don't like the way they feel, but I have heard the same complaints with other big brake kits.
 

Guillermo Ruggeri

New member
Location
Argentine
Car(s)
PASSAT B8 2017
looks like you answered your own question :)

I do not like these brakes on track, some others do. Maybe order the pressure valve stuff too since you have to order everything, but I'm going back to stock brakes. I wore down all the pads variations in about two track days with these brakes. I've hit temps into almost 1,000F on stock and these

ok, but wich pad did you use with macan calipers? Ferodo DS2500? DS3000? DSUNO?
You dont like the pedal feel?
Wich kind of disk have installed?
My cost $$ is double of your's. I cant goes back to stock
Thanks again!
 
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