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Coilover noises

xXDavidCXx

Autocross Champion
Location
AZ
Car(s)
2017 GTI SE DSG
This is also a downside to using generic shock bodies for every application. The desired ride height may not be in the range allowable by the shock at a given spring rate.

Custom, or application specific is the way to get the correct shock travel/spring rate/shock valving for a particular application.

What you can do is get stiffer springs and maybe change the valving to match, if required, or get a new shock from a different company that is better tuned to your requirements.

With your available shock travel, you need much stiffer springs.

If we assume there is 4.5 inches of total travel available, and you can pull 1.2 Gs, and we assume 1000 lbs for each front corner, 1 to 1 travel ratio for the front spring.

650 lb/in spring compresses 1.5 inches under static load, reducing your total shock travel to 3 inches.

You may want to target 1.5 inches of up and down travel, so putting the ride height at 1.5 inches of shock travel showing.

Then if you corner at 1.5 Gs x 1000 lbs on the front tire is another 500 lbs compressing the spring another 0.7 of an inch. leaving you with 0.8 of an inch which probably puts the shock into the bump stop.
 
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Roald

Go Kart Champion
Location
Ohio
Car(s)
GTI mk 7 2017
Do the GoPro trick. If you are able to recreate the noise while driving slowly enough for someone to just walk next to the car and hear it, try that out. At least it will tell you which area the noise is coming from. Obviously be extremely cautious.

That swaybar is squeezed between your axle and LCA. I have a feeling that even when disconnected there's still a chance that it's hitting. Did you disconnect both sides? The entire top section of the swaybar looks worn. Clean up everything really well and inspect it very closely. Get some pictures with the car on the ground to see what your clearance tolerances are. The top of the LCA is clearly hitting the bottom of the swaybar.

Also, I'd just return the kit if you still can. Get a set of KWs and use the factory top hats. Problem solved.
I just don't have a great way to actually achieve this.
I may have to figure out a mount. or clean everything up and get some putty or something to stick around to look for contact
 

Roald

Go Kart Champion
Location
Ohio
Car(s)
GTI mk 7 2017
My concern is Redshifts stance. In previous emails I'm certain they are not willing to return at this point. And they seem to be highly confident that there *isn't possibly* an issue on their end.
 

xXDavidCXx

Autocross Champion
Location
AZ
Car(s)
2017 GTI SE DSG
My concern is Redshifts stance. In previous emails I'm certain they are not willing to return at this point. And they seem to be highly confident that there *isn't possibly* an issue on their end.
I just don't think they know what they are doing, at this point. Their lack of understanding is worrisome.
 

Roald

Go Kart Champion
Location
Ohio
Car(s)
GTI mk 7 2017
Also, can you measure the total length of one of the front sway bar links?

Just because RedShit provided them, does not mean the adjusted length is correct.
I’ll grab it tomorrow night. I’m burned out on this for the evening. It’s 8 here which is practically my bedtime. And work this week is bonkers so beyond tonight my time with this will be limited.

I don’t mean this in a shitty way. But does link length even matter? The noise is happening with the bar completely disconnected.
I’m happy to measure though. I’m just curious. I feel like I’m chasing my tail a bit
 

Roald

Go Kart Champion
Location
Ohio
Car(s)
GTI mk 7 2017
This is also a downside to using generic shock bodies for every application. The desired ride height may not be in the range allowable by the shock at a given spring rate.

Custom, or application specific is the way to get the correct shock travel/spring rate/shock valving for a particular application.

What you can do is get stiffer springs and maybe change the valving to match, if required, or get a new shock from a different company that is better tuned to your requirements.

With your available shock travel, you need much stiffer springs.

If we assume there is 4.5 inches of total travel available, and you can pull 1.2 Gs, and we assume 1000 lbs for each front corner, 1 to 1 travel ratio for the front spring.

650 lb/in spring compresses 1.5 inches under static load, reducing your total shock travel to 3 inches.

You may want to target 1.5 inches of up and down travel, so putting the ride height at 1.5 inches of shock travel showing.

Then if you corner at 1.5 Gs x 1000 lbs on the front tire is another 500 lbs compressing the spring another 0.7 of an inch. leaving you with 0.8 of an inch which probably puts the shock into the bump stop.
That's what I had to begin with. 8k/10k with the linear/digressive/higher pressure valving. And it did the exact same thing.
With some rest, sleeplessness, further anxiety and consideration... I'm screwed.
I have a few ideas left for testing. But I am confident that it's not an overall install issue at this point, and there isn't something outside of the coilover making contact. There are no further scratches, or rub indicators anywhere. I've driven on them long enough for there to be obvious signs given the frequency.

I suspect that the noise is mostly coming from the right side? It's so jarring that it's hard to tell... but I intend to swap in the factory assembly on the right side and give it a test.
If the noise goes away, then I may swap the right coilover in on the left and check. Without the sway bar attached this doesn't really matter too much right?

Otherwise I'm going to get some putty or playdough and stick it to various suspected contact points to see how much clearance things are getting/ what is contacting.
I do have a go pro, so I'm trying to figure out how to mount it to look at the LCA area just to be 100% sure there isn't contact.
I also have all of the pictures and videos. I'm not sure what else to provide to prove my install is/was right, and this is an issue with the kit.

All in, I'm confident that I'm crashing into the bump stop. - Even still with the shock body at max length. The only other variable is to leave the body length at max, and add like crazy amounts of preload 10-20mm+.
Which is obviously a wrong configuration, but I'm trying to prove beyond a doubt that this kit/setup is wrong or not working in my car. I feel like this is what I'm left to do.

The pretense in which Redshift took the kit back to re-valve it and sell me different springs( they didn't let me return the old ones, but sold me the new ones "at cost"). Was never that something was wrong. But rather that I just didn't like the ride quality. From day one the noise, feel that I've been getting from this kit was never an issue from RS's perspective but rather an issue of my tolerance. And was always described as a compromise of this kit. So I was switched from a COMP kit with pressure valving and 8k/10k springs to Street Valving and 5k/7k springs. But the issue persists. The camber plate is rock solid. It's absolutely cannot be the camber plates. The bearing is firm but not sloppy, and there is no vertical play at all in the plate. All bolts have remained tight.


I cannot image how this is possibly acceptable, fine or expected.
I'm asking someone from my local AutoX group to have a look for me just as a final way to determine if I'm crazy or not.
Once I do some more testing I will post those results too. And maybe I should get photos of different measurements. I need solid numbers at this point to prove what's going on.
 

DerHase

Autocross Champion
Location
Hampton Roads, VA
Car(s)
2019 GTI Rabbit
Where in Ohio are you? I ran with the Cincy SCCA when I lived there and still know a few people there who can get you set straight if that's somewhat nearby you.

The shops I'd recommend based on others' input would probably be Turn In Concepts in Cincinnati (mostly a Subaru shop but I think they work on all makes) or Performance Alignment (I THINK? It was run by a local guy named Jeremy at the time).


On a side note: If your shock body is at MAX length - that'll make it crash into the bump stop even sooner. You shorten the shock body and run the upper spring seat further UP on the threaded body to raise ride height in relation to bump engagement point.

To check how much shock travel you're using, put a small zip tie at the bottom of the shock shaft while the suspension is drooped out. Drive it and see how high up the zip tie moved.
 

Roald

Go Kart Champion
Location
Ohio
Car(s)
GTI mk 7 2017
Where in Ohio are you? I ran with the Cincy SCCA when I lived there and still know a few people there who can get you set straight if that's somewhat nearby you.

The shops I'd recommend based on others' input would probably be Turn In Concepts in Cincinnati (mostly a Subaru shop but I think they work on all makes) or Performance Alignment (I THINK? It was run by a local guy named Jeremy at the time).


On a side note: If your shock body is at MAX length - that'll make it crash into the bump stop even sooner. You shorten the shock body and run the upper spring seat further UP on the threaded body to raise ride height in relation to bump engagement point.

To check how much shock travel you're using, put a small zip tie at the bottom of the shock shaft while the suspension is drooped out. Drive it and see how high up the zip tie moved.
Oh nice. Yeah I've run with those guys once. Traders world is interesting for sure.
I'm in Columbus so that isn't SO far really. About and hour and half-ish from me.

Your comment about the body length and spring makes way more sense. I will try that and the zip tie method. Do I need to worry about crushing anything with no bump stop? I'll only do the small lap around the block and hit that speed bump I posted a video of.
 

bfury5

Autocross Champion
Location
CT
I would for sure order new springs, equivalent rate, with less # of coils, and see if that helps. As David said, the amount of coils on those springs leave so little travel before bind. A lot of folks have run an equivalent type kit like this on these platforms without issue, so I'm hesitant to immediately place blame on "short bodies, not maximizing travel, etc". it sounds obvious again, but make sure absolutely everything is tight (especially top nut on the shock, and the 3x nuts that hold it to the body). I had one of the spanners that locks the height of the coilover (the one near the threaded base) come loose once, and there was enough play in the threads that it made some bad noises. 8k/10k rates also don't seem to be an issue - I started around there as well, but ran hyperco springs. With the 5k rates you now have, that might just be too low for the amount of travel the shock as.

I'm sorry you're having this experience with Redshift, as I had a very different experience working with them in the past
 

xXDavidCXx

Autocross Champion
Location
AZ
Car(s)
2017 GTI SE DSG
Your comment about the body length and spring makes way more sense. I will try that and the zip tie method. Do I need to worry about crushing anything with no bump stop? I'll only do the small lap around the block and hit that speed bump I posted a video of.
I overlooked this and should have addressed this first.

When the spring is too light for the vehicle weight with no pre-load, you HAVE TO adjust the pre-load up to lengthen the shock stroke. Adjusting the lower body height adjustment does nothing for the shock travel.

New springs and/or adjusting "pre-load" is the correct answer.

Don't mess around with putty or gopro, we already know what the issue is.
 

Roald

Go Kart Champion
Location
Ohio
Car(s)
GTI mk 7 2017
I would for sure order new springs, equivalent rate, with less # of coils, and see if that helps. As David said, the amount of coils on those springs leave so little travel before bind. A lot of folks have run an equivalent type kit like this on these platforms without issue, so I'm hesitant to immediately place blame on "short bodies, not maximizing travel, etc". it sounds obvious again, but make sure absolutely everything is tight (especially top nut on the shock, and the 3x nuts that hold it to the body). I had one of the spanners that locks the height of the coilover (the one near the threaded base) come loose once, and there was enough play in the threads that it made some bad noises. 8k/10k rates also don't seem to be an issue - I started around there as well, but ran hyperco springs. With the 5k rates you now have, that might just be too low for the amount of travel the shock as.

I'm sorry you're having this experience with Redshift, as I had a very different experience working with them in the past
I'll double check tonight once I make the adjustments mentioned so far.

And it's just been frustrating. All that said, I might be still doing something wrong.

I overlooked this and should have addressed this first.

When the spring is too light for the vehicle weight with no pre-load, you HAVE TO adjust the pre-load up to lengthen the shock stroke. Adjusting the lower body height adjustment does nothing for the shock travel.

New springs and/or adjusting "pre-load" is the correct answer.

Don't mess around with putty or gopro, we already know what the issue is.
Plan is to shorten the bodies tonight and bump up the pre-load amount.
I don't think then that I'm quite understanding how to know where to set the body length.
Should I just put it back to where it was when I got them? I have that number marked/recorded.
 

aloha_from_bradley

Autocross Champion
Location
AZ
I overlooked this and should have addressed this first.

When the spring is too light for the vehicle weight with no pre-load, you HAVE TO adjust the pre-load up to lengthen the shock stroke. Adjusting the lower body height adjustment does nothing for the shock travel.

New springs and/or adjusting "pre-load" is the correct answer.

Don't mess around with putty or gopro, we already know what the issue is.

I was wondering about this myself, but figured there was no way it hadn't been addressed earlier in the thread. I wouldn't set preload any more than just enough to keep the springs from moving up and down, and the spring should still be able to spin freely by hand. Obviously you know this.

I did find it odd that some of the earlier pictures showed the spring compressed a ton while others didn't, even without load. Didn't make any sense. Sounds like preload isn't set correctly, but I'm not sure.
 

aloha_from_bradley

Autocross Champion
Location
AZ
I'll double check tonight once I make the adjustments mentioned so far.

And it's just been frustrating. All that said, I might be still doing something wrong.


Plan is to shorten the bodies tonight and bump up the pre-load amount.
I don't think then that I'm quite understanding how to know where to set the body length.
Should I just put it back to where it was when I got them? I have that number marked/recorded.

Your preload should only be hand tight on the top collar to keep the spring from freely moving up / down. Then you tighten the top two collars against each other. The body height (ride height) is set by moving the assembly up / down via the shock body (lower collar). If you have too much preload, you're essentially shortening the stroke of the strut. Just hand tight is all you need. You should still be able to twist the spring freely by hand if the preload is set properly.
 

aloha_from_bradley

Autocross Champion
Location
AZ
This looks like excessive preload

1681841326069.png


This is what it should look like if preload is set properly. Usually preload is set properly when you receive the assembly from the manufacturer.

1681841365326.png
 
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