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Clutchless ignition update: solved (maybe)

bertj

Ready to race!
Location
Wirral (UK)
maybe re-read the first post and what modification was performed, and then read my question again.
I'm not sure what you are getting at. Perhaps it's different here in the UK but there have been several instances of drivers and/or passengers attempting to take car manufacturers to court for what they regarded as a design flaw in their car. Depressing the clutch on starting a manual car is a very old design feature that has now been incorporated in most manual cars. This was triggered by a number of cases years ago; the worst was when a very young child was killed when his father accidently started the car in gear and crushed the child between the car and the garage door. This led to a number of cases blaming the manufacturer for 'causing' the accident. It could be construed by lawyers that defeating a car safety measure is not a good idea. As you imply this safety discussion is not material to the reason for the original posting and is perhaps best left alone. In the meantime you might like to look at this very old discussion on VWVortex. https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthr...ss-depress-clutch-when-starting-ignition-mean
 

El_bigote_AJ

Autocross Newbie
Location
Las Vegas
Car(s)
2019 GTI bunny
This thread is about BYPASSING the safety /nanny that the factory already has on the car where you are REQUIRED to press the clutch to start the car.

what I have said is. How is VW to be expected at fault if an end user modifies the system to BYPASS the feature they have ALREADY incorporated into the car?

Should they also worry that the seat belt don’t work when you decide not to use it?

your initial post is about VW getting in some litigation over this, so the question stands (after you read the first post)
 

bertj

Ready to race!
Location
Wirral (UK)
This thread is about BYPASSING the safety /nanny that the factory already has on the car where you are REQUIRED to press the clutch to start the car.

what I have said is. How is VW to be expected at fault if an end user modifies the system to BYPASS the feature they have ALREADY incorporated into the car?

Should they also worry that the seat belt don’t work when you decide not to use it?

your initial post is about VW getting in some litigation over this, so the question stands (after you read the first post)
I appreciate what you say and agree that VW could not possibly be responsible for unauthorised owner changes to a car but I can't agree that removing what is regarded by VW and safety organisations (i.e Euro NCAP etc.) as a safety feature is sensible; but that's my opinion and we are both lucky to live in countries where free speech is still sacrosanct. Many of the safety features fitted to modern cars are a result of litigation forcing companies to fit them. I also agree that most forum VW members would never make stupid mistakes and I suspect that many of us love 'messing' with our cars just to see what can be done.
 

El_bigote_AJ

Autocross Newbie
Location
Las Vegas
Car(s)
2019 GTI bunny
Lol, question still stands...as I just don’t see the connection with litigation concerns.

“Imagine the litigation that VW would face if they had failed to install their cars with this safety feature.”

from your initial addition to the post.... so if the thread is COMPLETELY about bypassing the factory safety feature with this mode, What is the relevance of your post/posts? There has never been a disagreement to this being safe or not or the need for the explanation of why the feature is there.
 

2slowvw

Moderator
Location
VA
Car(s)
2016 GTI
OK i've seen enough of the back and forth. One of you please let it go.

On a side note, i was going to make my own solution to this but have been caught up with other projects. I do intend to circle back around to this because i do feel that it is worth while to not have your engine go kaput
 

MSchott

Ready to race!
Location
Michigan
You still have to push the clutch in to put the car in first gear to move the car once it’s started. I don’t see the benefit. Is there any proof it contributes to “crank walk”. By the way my stock 6MT 2017 has 77,000 miles and no engine issues. Is this mainly for modded engines?
 

sterkrazzy

Autocross Newbie
Location
United States
Car(s)
2018 R
You still have to push the clutch in to put the car in first gear to move the car once it’s started. I don’t see the benefit. Is there any proof it contributes to “crank walk”. By the way my stock 6MT 2017 has 77,000 miles and no engine issues. Is this mainly for modded engines?
The crankshaft thrust washer is a lesser design than previous years and seems to be the culprit. There's additional wear on the washer when you're starting it because it isn't oiled up yet, so this mod is essentially eliminating that extra wear. Even stock cars have seen crankwalk, so technically even a stock car could possibly benefit from this.

I saw another post from a guy saying he used to drive an older car that was known for crankwalk issues and the one of the best ways to avoid it, or at least extend it's life, was to just not hold the clutch down during stop lights or extended periods of time like that.

Whether or not crankwalk is something you should actually worry about is gonna vary from person to person now. Plenty of mechanics will say they've never seen it, they've worked on tons of cars, and don't worry about it. Everybody that sees all the comments on the internet are gonna say it's a problem though. I say at the very least stay away from DKM clutches.
 

Strange Mud

Autocross Newbie
Location
Small Town CT
Car(s)
2017 GTI (+3 more)
OK i've seen enough of the back and forth. Both of you please let it go.

On a side note, i was going to make my own solution to this but have been caught up with other projects. I do intend to circle back around to this because i do feel that it is worth while to not have your engine go kaput
ftfy

;)

Mud
 
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ATR

Drag Race Newbie
Location
Baltimore
Car(s)
'17 Golf R 6mt
.......one of the best ways to avoid it, or at least extend it's life, was to just not hold the clutch down during stop lights or extended periods of time like that.......
This!!!

Also don't hold the clutch in for 5 minutes waiting for your car to warm up...

Clutch in, check the transmission to ensure it's in neutral, start the car, then as soon as the engine is running clutch out.
 

Ridebjj

Go Kart Champion
Location
lasVegas
This!!!

Also don't hold the clutch in for 5 minutes waiting for your car to warm up...

Clutch in, check the transmission to ensure it's in neutral, start the car, then as soon as the engine is running clutch out.
It's the completely cold start with the clutch pressed that's doing the damage, especially with upgraded pressure plates. Or so goes the theory. Argue amongst yourselves over that if you like.

I just wanted to see if I could defeat the clutch in requirement, mostly. I like solving unusual problems.

It's also nice to just stick my arm in to start it in the morning to let it warm up a bit.
 

dawooj

New member
Location
DFW
My 2 cents:

If the intent for this mod is only to reduce wear on the thrust bearing and prevent crank walk, I'd suggest reprogramming it to require pressing the brake pedal to start the car. If you want to use this info for laziness/convenience/remote start, beware that if the car was left in gear, the car will lurch forward/backward(in reverse) even with the e-brake on.

Source: I backed my dad's van into a pole and shattered the rear glass and taillight when I was 5 yrs old (before ignition safety switch days). I was left alone for a few mins with the key in the ignition and I got in the driver seat to pretend to drive. Put it in reverse and I started the van. It lurched backward and got pinned up against the pole. Tires kept spinning until a passerby quickly reacted and turned the ignition off. Got the beating of my lifetime. Can laugh about it now, but was fortunate nobody was behind the van when it happened.

[edit grammar]
 
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CGarcia

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Houston,TX
I hope you can do a detailed DIY for this eventually. I reached out to the folks at Littco, after hearing that they managed to code it out. But they said they couldnt help me as I would have to take the car to them. They did say, the other people doing tunes will eventually figure it out. But I doubt any of the tuners will offer this just to avoid the whole legal thing. I grew up before they started doing this whole double safety stuff, and never took of in reverse or anything silly like that, I also ride motorcycles, go figure.
 

dirtybenzo

New member
Location
Scotch Plains, NJ
Car(s)
‘15 GTI 2dr 6MT
I didn’t get my solenoid and spring kit in yet, but I got my magnets. I tried playing around with them by the bottom of the clutch (around where you have your bypass setup), and had a buddy try to crank the car but it didn’t detect the magnet. Does this only work when it’s attached to the solenoid?
 

Ridebjj

Go Kart Champion
Location
lasVegas
I didn’t get my solenoid and spring kit in yet, but I got my magnets. I tried playing around with them by the bottom of the clutch (around where you have your bypass setup), and had a buddy try to crank the car but it didn’t detect the magnet. Does this only work when it’s attached to the solenoid?
Nope, it'll work as long as you get the magnets into the exact right spot. But it's a very specific spot and it works easier with a specific size magnet with specific polarity. It took me many hours of fiddling to figure it all out.

It's a lot easier if you used VCDS (or OBD11 probably has it too) to monitor the state of the clutch sensors (there are two) while you move the magnets around.

Someone else asked me to do the full diy, and I told them I will. Probably next week. Things will make more sense then.
 
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