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Clutchless ignition update: solved (maybe)

bertj

Ready to race!
Location
Wirral (UK)
As I haven't driven a manual VW for many years I'm a bit confused about the safety aspect of this mod. Does the gearbox have to be in neutral and the parking brake or foot brake be on for this mod to work? If the car will start in gear there's a likelihood it could lurch forward (or backward) with unpleasant or dangerous consequences. There will always be someone out there who will cause such an accident. Imagine the litigation that VW would face if they had failed to install their cars with this safety feature.
 

Ridebjj

Go Kart Newbie
Location
lasVegas
As I haven't driven a manual VW for many years I'm a bit confused about the safety aspect of this mod. Does the gearbox have to be in neutral and the parking brake or foot brake be on for this mod to work? If the car will start in gear there's a likelihood it could lurch forward (or backward) with unpleasant or dangerous consequences. There will always be someone out there who will cause such an accident. Imagine the litigation that VW would face if they had failed to install their cars with this safety feature.
Car does not have to be in neutral nor foot on brake. Even if I knew how to make it that way I wouldn't have bothered, I always leave it in N with parking brake on anyway - unless I'm parked on a slope. It'd be on you to remember to put car in N first. Even so, if the parking brake is firmly engaged, there won't be any lurch. It'll just buck a bit and stall.
 

El_bigote_AJ

Go Kart Champion
Location
Las Vegas
Ride
2019 GTI bunny
What would doing a mod that’s bypasses the requirement of the clutch to be depressed to start the car have ANYTHING to do with a litigation with VW?
 

bertj

Ready to race!
Location
Wirral (UK)
What would doing a mod that’s bypasses the requirement of the clutch to be depressed to start the car have ANYTHING to do with a litigation with VW?
If someone attempts to start the car when it's in gear without the parking or foot brake engaged the car may move when the engine fires. If a manufacturer hasn't taken this type of driver into account and an accident happens, then a stupid driver could attempt to blame the manufacturer for allowing the car to start in these circumstance. There are many incidences of drivers trying to blame a manufacturer for an accident. IMO having to depress the clutch before starting the engine is a sensible safety measure but keen/aware drivers such as on this forum would always check things before starting the car. Also would such a clutch modification cause warranty and/or insurance problems?
 

FlyingNugget

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Toronto, Canada
If someone attempts to start the car when it's in gear without the parking or foot brake engaged the car may move when the engine fires. If a manufacturer hasn't taken this type of driver into account and an accident happens, then a stupid driver could attempt to blame the manufacturer for allowing the car to start in these circumstance. There are many incidences of drivers trying to blame a manufacturer for an accident. IMO having to depress the clutch before starting the engine is a sensible safety measure but keen/aware drivers such as on this forum would always check things before starting the car. Also would such a clutch modification cause warranty and/or insurance problems?
Instead of putting the start requirement on the clutch pedal, they could have made the start requirement on having the car in neutral. Obviously, we can't DIY change the start requirement programming, but VW could have in the original design.
 

El_bigote_AJ

Go Kart Champion
Location
Las Vegas
Ride
2019 GTI bunny
If someone attempts to start the car when it's in gear without the parking or foot brake engaged the car may move when the engine fires. If a manufacturer hasn't taken this type of driver into account and an accident happens, then a stupid driver could attempt to blame the manufacturer for allowing the car to start in these circumstance. There are many incidences of drivers trying to blame a manufacturer for an accident. IMO having to depress the clutch before starting the engine is a sensible safety measure but keen/aware drivers such as on this forum would always check things before starting the car. Also would such a clutch modification cause warranty and/or insurance problems?
maybe re-read the first post and what modification was performed, and then read my question again. How does bypassing the cars factory safety but VW at fault?
 
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Ridebjj

Go Kart Newbie
Location
lasVegas
Btw, at about 2 months now with this mod and except for the incident where the glue holding the magnet on failed, it's never not worked. I don't have to remind myself not to press the clutch anymore. I just give the stick a bop to confirm neutral and fire away.

Car is in pieces now, mid clutch install but when that's done, I'll possibly do the full diy on this. I got fuck all else to do outside the hours in my home office.
 

bertj

Ready to race!
Location
Wirral (UK)
maybe re-read the first post and what modification was performed, and then read my question again.
I'm not sure what you are getting at. Perhaps it's different here in the UK but there have been several instances of drivers and/or passengers attempting to take car manufacturers to court for what they regarded as a design flaw in their car. Depressing the clutch on starting a manual car is a very old design feature that has now been incorporated in most manual cars. This was triggered by a number of cases years ago; the worst was when a very young child was killed when his father accidently started the car in gear and crushed the child between the car and the garage door. This led to a number of cases blaming the manufacturer for 'causing' the accident. It could be construed by lawyers that defeating a car safety measure is not a good idea. As you imply this safety discussion is not material to the reason for the original posting and is perhaps best left alone. In the meantime you might like to look at this very old discussion on VWVortex. https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthr...ss-depress-clutch-when-starting-ignition-mean
 

El_bigote_AJ

Go Kart Champion
Location
Las Vegas
Ride
2019 GTI bunny
This thread is about BYPASSING the safety /nanny that the factory already has on the car where you are REQUIRED to press the clutch to start the car.

what I have said is. How is VW to be expected at fault if an end user modifies the system to BYPASS the feature they have ALREADY incorporated into the car?

Should they also worry that the seat belt don’t work when you decide not to use it?

your initial post is about VW getting in some litigation over this, so the question stands (after you read the first post)
 

bertj

Ready to race!
Location
Wirral (UK)
This thread is about BYPASSING the safety /nanny that the factory already has on the car where you are REQUIRED to press the clutch to start the car.

what I have said is. How is VW to be expected at fault if an end user modifies the system to BYPASS the feature they have ALREADY incorporated into the car?

Should they also worry that the seat belt don’t work when you decide not to use it?

your initial post is about VW getting in some litigation over this, so the question stands (after you read the first post)
I appreciate what you say and agree that VW could not possibly be responsible for unauthorised owner changes to a car but I can't agree that removing what is regarded by VW and safety organisations (i.e Euro NCAP etc.) as a safety feature is sensible; but that's my opinion and we are both lucky to live in countries where free speech is still sacrosanct. Many of the safety features fitted to modern cars are a result of litigation forcing companies to fit them. I also agree that most forum VW members would never make stupid mistakes and I suspect that many of us love 'messing' with our cars just to see what can be done.
 

El_bigote_AJ

Go Kart Champion
Location
Las Vegas
Ride
2019 GTI bunny
Lol, question still stands...as I just don’t see the connection with litigation concerns.

“Imagine the litigation that VW would face if they had failed to install their cars with this safety feature.”

from your initial addition to the post.... so if the thread is COMPLETELY about bypassing the factory safety feature with this mode, What is the relevance of your post/posts? There has never been a disagreement to this being safe or not or the need for the explanation of why the feature is there.
 

2slowvw

Moderator
Location
VA
Ride
2016 GTI
OK i've seen enough of the back and forth. One of you please let it go.

On a side note, i was going to make my own solution to this but have been caught up with other projects. I do intend to circle back around to this because i do feel that it is worth while to not have your engine go kaput
 

MSchott

Ready to race!
Location
Michigan
You still have to push the clutch in to put the car in first gear to move the car once it’s started. I don’t see the benefit. Is there any proof it contributes to “crank walk”. By the way my stock 6MT 2017 has 77,000 miles and no engine issues. Is this mainly for modded engines?
 

sterkrazzy

Drag Racing Champion
Location
United States
Ride
2018 R
You still have to push the clutch in to put the car in first gear to move the car once it’s started. I don’t see the benefit. Is there any proof it contributes to “crank walk”. By the way my stock 6MT 2017 has 77,000 miles and no engine issues. Is this mainly for modded engines?
The crankshaft thrust washer is a lesser design than previous years and seems to be the culprit. There's additional wear on the washer when you're starting it because it isn't oiled up yet, so this mod is essentially eliminating that extra wear. Even stock cars have seen crankwalk, so technically even a stock car could possibly benefit from this.

I saw another post from a guy saying he used to drive an older car that was known for crankwalk issues and the one of the best ways to avoid it, or at least extend it's life, was to just not hold the clutch down during stop lights or extended periods of time like that.

Whether or not crankwalk is something you should actually worry about is gonna vary from person to person now. Plenty of mechanics will say they've never seen it, they've worked on tons of cars, and don't worry about it. Everybody that sees all the comments on the internet are gonna say it's a problem though. I say at the very least stay away from DKM clutches.
 

Strange Mud

Drag Racing Champion
Location
Small Town CT
Ride
2017 GTI Sport
OK i've seen enough of the back and forth. Both of you please let it go.

On a side note, i was going to make my own solution to this but have been caught up with other projects. I do intend to circle back around to this because i do feel that it is worth while to not have your engine go kaput
ftfy

;)

Mud
 
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ATR

Drag Race Newbie
Location
Baltimore
Ride
'17 Golf R 6mt
.......one of the best ways to avoid it, or at least extend it's life, was to just not hold the clutch down during stop lights or extended periods of time like that.......
This!!!

Also don't hold the clutch in for 5 minutes waiting for your car to warm up...

Clutch in, check the transmission to ensure it's in neutral, start the car, then as soon as the engine is running clutch out.
 

Ridebjj

Go Kart Newbie
Location
lasVegas
This!!!

Also don't hold the clutch in for 5 minutes waiting for your car to warm up...

Clutch in, check the transmission to ensure it's in neutral, start the car, then as soon as the engine is running clutch out.
It's the completely cold start with the clutch pressed that's doing the damage, especially with upgraded pressure plates. Or so goes the theory. Argue amongst yourselves over that if you like.

I just wanted to see if I could defeat the clutch in requirement, mostly. I like solving unusual problems.

It's also nice to just stick my arm in to start it in the morning to let it warm up a bit.
 
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