Can anybodt shift this @#*! thing smoothly?

[Subliminal]

The first two don't get it. 2018gti gets it.

All the discussions of rev hang I've seen go this way. Half the people swear they have no rev hang, or at least they can shift perfectly smoothly.

It's not a question of whether you can shift fast. It's a question of passive rev matching. Some of us actually care about preserving our synchros for the life of the car. When you shift fast from 1-2, we're not saying we can't get it into 2nd right away. It's that we can feel the resistance of the 2nd gear synchros as we jam it in. If you let out clutch at 3000 RPM in 1st and shift to 2nd quickly, the RPM might be 2500 when you shift, but 2nd gear wants to be in 1500. That is a significant difference that the synchromesh has to work to equalize in a fraction of a section, and that wears it down. It also feels incredible when you get a perfectly rev-matched shift--there is almost zero resistance to the lever as it slides in. Mmm hmm. Oh yeah.

If your idea of shifting "smoothly" is the shifter goes into gear quickly and the car doesn't jerk, you are totally missing the point. You can drive a manual car "smoothly" by relying on the synchros to rev match for you (=transmission wear) and feathering the clutch a ton (=major clutch wear). The rest of us are trying to avoid those things. Rev hang makes it hard.

you took what i said and assumed a whole bunch of incorrect things from it. just bc you can't figure out how to shift it smoothly and quickly doesn't mean everyone else cant either

i was tuned on stock clutch for 2.5 years with zero slip, so clutch wear wasn't an issue at all. only reason i upgraded the clutch was bc i had an opportunity to install a new (better) one for $300.

if you really struggle with rev hang that much you could always turn on the A/C lol

 

[2018gti]

just bc you can't figure out how to shift it smoothly and quickly doesn't mean everyone else cant either

Uh oh now we’re in an argument about rev hang

That is certainly great for you that you can shift it smoothly but for some of us, it’s like once you notice something you can’t “un-see” it. That’s how it is for me with the rev hang.

Btw, it has nothing to do with the flywheel. How can the revs fall faster when the engine is cold then suddenly slow down a couple minutes later?

VQVW also had a good point that it wears out the synchros more as well.

I’m gonna figure out how to get rid of it no matter what it takes haha. It has to be in the tuning somewhere.

 

[bentin]

The first two don't get it. 2018gti gets it.

All the discussions of rev hang I've seen go this way. Half the people complain about rev hang, and half swear they have no rev hang, or that they can shift perfectly smoothly.

It's not a question of whether you can shift fast. It's a question of passive rev matching. Some of us actually care about preserving our synchros for the life of the car. Let me try to be clear: when shifting fast from 1-2 (the worst shift because of the large ratio difference), we're not saying we can't get it into 2nd right away. And we're not saying we're jerking the car around. I can shift lightning fast from 1-2 in my Alltrack if I wanted to and a passenger would find the transition smooth from their perspective.

The problem is you can feel the resistance of the 2nd gear synchros as you jam it in. If you let out clutch at 3000 RPM in 1st and shift to 2nd quickly, the RPM might be 2500 when you shift, but 2nd gear wants to be in 1500 (or something like that). That is a significant difference that the synchromesh has to work to equalize in a fraction of a section, and that wears it down, shift after shift, day after day.

The goal for the rest of us is to work with the transmission, not against it. It also feels incredible when you get a perfectly rev-matched shift--there is almost zero resistance to the lever as it slides in. Mmm hmm. Oh yeah.

If your idea of shifting "smoothly" is the shifter goes into gear quickly and the car doesn't jerk, you are totally missing the point. You can drive a manual car "smoothly" by relying on the synchros to rev match for you (=transmission wear) and feathering the clutch a ton (=major clutch wear). The rest of us are trying to avoid those things. Rev hang makes it hard.

As stated above, have a nice buzzer sound. Swing and a miss. I double clutch just as a sort of amusement to myself. I frequently shift without the clutch and just rev matching too, I don't seem to have the rev hang you must. This transmission isn't that recalcitrant. In fact it's among the easier ones I've had. It's certainly friendlier than any of my BMW's, M's and non were, at least with their stock CDV in place. It's worlds better than my Mazda 3, that thing was a Toyota like light switch, no feel.

I've had three cars with manuals get past 100k miles on the stock clutch, one made it to 145k when I sold it, with the stock clutch and sycnros, the only thing that was replaced in the entire time of that car was the stupid rubber guibo. Countless hours of track usage and hours and hours of canyon road carving too. Point is, I'm not hard on clutches, I'm not jamming gears and from the time I was probably sixteen and a few weeks, I haven't feathered the clutch in a moving automobile, I'm not new to this, yet I don't find this to be a particularly challenging car to drive, especially acknowledging that it has a dual mass flywheel.

 

[bentin]

Uh oh now we’re in an argument about rev hang

That is certainly great for you that you can shift it smoothly but for some of us, it’s like once you notice something you can’t “un-see” it. That’s how it is for me with the rev hang.

Btw, it has nothing to do with the flywheel. How can the revs fall faster when the engine is cold then suddenly slow down a couple minutes later?

VQVW also had a good point that it wears out the synchros more as well.

I’m gonna figure out how to get rid of it no matter what it takes haha. It has to be in the tuning somewhere.

Two questions, do you have the CDV removed? Are you tuned (with what if so?)

And while the EGR is running on a cold engine, of course the feel of a turbo charged car will be different than once it's off.

 

[Dog Dad Wagon]

This is exactly what makes it annoying for me - agreed. It’s like you can either shift smooth or fast, but not both. I’ve learned how to get a mix of both but never get it right 100% of the time.

Meanwhile on my Ninja I can take off faster than any car, smoothly, and it takes about 0 concentration to do it every time. It’s so much more natural and analog. When I take my hand off the throttle, the revs fall, simple as that.

oh yeah I definitely don’t get it every time. And this is my 2nd ultrawide 6-speed MK7 Golf. I definitely had less issues with my 2015 GTI than I do my Alltrack.

 

[2018gti]

@bentin definitely, I’m not saying it’s like the worst transmission ever lol. Just this one aspect about it bothers me and if it weren’t there it would make driving in traffic a lot easier.

My GTI is very stock, it’s not tuned and I haven’t changed the bleeder block or anything. I’ve read that existing tunes don’t fix the rev hang much but that could be wrong.

 

[Subliminal]

Uh oh now we’re in an argument about rev hang

That is certainly great for you that you can shift it smoothly but for some of us, it’s like once you notice something you can’t “un-see” it. That’s how it is for me with the rev hang.

Btw, it has nothing to do with the flywheel. How can the revs fall faster when the engine is cold then suddenly slow down a couple minutes later?

VQVW also had a good point that it wears out the synchros more as well.

I’m gonna figure out how to get rid of it no matter what it takes haha. It has to be in the tuning somewhere.

just to be clear, i'm not saying i dont experience rev hang. im saying im able to shift perfectly smooth into 2nd without worrying about impeding traffic for everyone around me, like others were complaining about

 

[2018gti]

just to be clear, i'm not saying i dont experience rev hang. im saying im able to shift smoothly into 2nd without worrying about impeding traffic for everyone around me, like others were complaining about

Idk For me I can do it, but I have to concentrate and slip the clutch just right or else it’s jerky. Maybe I’m just poorly coordinated lol. My argument is that it should be easier and it’s the rev hang that gets in the way.

 

[bentin]

Idk For me I can do it, but I have to concentrate and slip the clutch just right or else it’s jerky. Maybe I’m just poorly coordinated lol. My argument is that it should be easier and it’s the rev hang that gets in the way.

I think we can all get in a big circle and agree that the 1-2 gap is pretty f'ing stupid. I praise every traffic situation that allows me to keep rolling enough to use second and not have to drop down into first. Oh, and kill that stupid CDV, just order the speed bleeder valve, a bleed bag and some stock VW brake fluid and get it done!

 

[VQVW]

I'm seeing some more misconceptions going around. Sorry if I come across as pedantic but the discussion will be more productive if we're all on the same page.

Rev hang has nothing to do with the transmission or clutch. It really has nothing to do with the flywheel either (although a lightweight flywheel will drop RPMs faster than a normal flywheel). The issue is a delayed fuel cut programmed into the ECU.

My last car was a manual with a mechanical throttle. Gas pedal attached to throttle body by a cable. There was no rev hang unless I accidentally left my foot on the gas too long when clutching, which would rev the engine a bit. In contrast, today's cars including all Mk7s have drive-by wire, so the gas pedal just provides input to the ECU, which follows an algorithm and then outputs to the throttle.

Here is a good description of rev hang as implemented by VW specifically, but it's the same principle for all MT cars today to reduce emissions:
https://www.autoweek.com/news/techn...revs-slowly-on-purpose-to-curb-nox-emissions/

I'll probably start a separate thread later today where all we talk about is rev hang, how much it sucks, and how to live with it. Those who don't have rev hang hangups can keep talking about your buttery smooth shifts here.

 

[Subliminal]

I'm seeing some more misconceptions going around. Sorry if I come across as pedantic but the discussion will be more productive if we're all on the same page.

Rev hang has nothing to do with the transmission or clutch. It really has nothing to do with the flywheel either (although a lightweight flywheel will drop RPMs faster than a normal flywheel). The issue is a delayed fuel cut programmed into the ECU.

My last car was a manual with a mechanical throttle. Gas pedal attached to throttle body by a cable. There was no rev hang unless I accidentally left my foot on the gas too long when clutching, which would rev the engine a bit. In contrast, today's cars including all Mk7s have drive-by wire, so the gas pedal just provides input to the ECU, which follows an algorithm and then outputs to the throttle.

Here is a good description of rev hang as implemented by VW specifically, but it's the same principle for all MT cars today to reduce emissions:
https://www.autoweek.com/news/techn...revs-slowly-on-purpose-to-curb-nox-emissions/

I'll probably start a separate thread later today where all we talk about is rev hang, how much it sucks, and how to live with it. Those who don't have rev hang hangups can keep talking about your buttery smooth shifts here.

from your very own source: "If you think your car’s rev hang is really bad, you might be the problem."

 

[bentin]

Like I said, you can easily shift the car with out the clutch and rev matching. I'd be curious if those that are complaining about rev hang have driven another direct injection, turbo charged car with a dual mass fly wheel or are you comparing it to a port injection, naturally aspirated car with a single mass fly wheel? I mean, sure, the GTI isn't an S54 with a ten pound flywheel, but it's not that different than a similar DI, turbo motor.

 

[bentin]

I also think it's premature to blame rev hang on an ECU setting alone. Have you driven an SMF car? Have you driven one with proper intake, inter cooler piping and exhaust work? There are a lot of concessions to emissions that will result in rev hang that are mechanical.

 

[VQVW]

That's fair; it may not be ECU alone. I'm just saying it's not transmission or clutch-related. Re flywheels, some say DMFs are heavy so the revs drop more slowly, but that's not what I'm observing when I talk about rev hang. I'm observing a true hang where the RPM floats without dropping for a second or more in some cases. That cannot be due to a heavy flywheel--it is due to fuel being ignited in the cylinders.

 

[bentin]

That's fair; it may not be ECU alone. I'm just saying it's not transmission or clutch-related. Re flywheels, some say DMFs are heavy so the revs drop more slowly, but that's not what I'm observing when I talk about rev hang. I'm observing a true hang where the RPM floats without dropping for a second or more in some cases. That cannot be due to a heavy flywheel--it is due to fuel being ignited in the cylinders.

Does OR get CARB cars? Is it possible that it's related to that? I haven't had that kind of lag on either my Mk7 or Mk7.5.