BMS VW GTI JB4 info thread

[0bLiViOuS]

My fault, it was early and my question was probably confusing. Let me see if I can re-word my questions:

1) Will I notice any boost in performance if my E30 mix calculates out to 95.9 octane versus 94.7 octane? (Will explain more below)

2) To realize the gains you mentioned from E30, can we just use what comes pre-loaded onto the JB4, or do we first need to create a custom map to take advantage of E30?

Regarding 94.7 vs. 95.9 octane, see the below screenshots of the E85 calculator. For the 91 octane portion of the mix, I have the option of using gas with either 0% ethanol or 10% ethanol. Obviously using the 0% ethanol for the 91 octane gas portion will yield a higher octane, but wondering if it is worth my hassle as in that case I need to fill my E85 portion then drive a couple miles to another station for the 0% ethanol gas, whereas the E85 station also has pumps for gas with 10% ethanol. Hopefully I'm wording this all correctly.

You will be able to adjust the boost based on what you car can safely handle basically. So if you have race gas, you can turn up the boost but if you're blending, not as high, but still higher than a flat octane.

I would personally go with 91 with 0% ethanol and then blend. The settings may be the same, but if you've never blended before, it is just snappier overall. The 91 without ethanol will have a higher knock limit so you might be able to push it a little more. Logging will be key to finding the limits of your car in your environment. Even when temp changes, be prepared to do this again if you like to push the limits. I know George is getting bombarded so you can always feel free to PM me and I might be able to help answer some questions

 

[Hotfart]

You will be able to adjust the boost based on what you car can safely handle basically. So if you have race gas, you can turn up the boost but if you're blending, not as high, but still higher than a flat octane.

I would personally go with 91 with 0% ethanol and then blend. The settings may be the same, but if you've never blended before, it is just snappier overall. The 91 without ethanol will have a higher knock limit so you might be able to push it a little more. Logging will be key to finding the limits of your car in your environment. Even when temp changes, be prepared to do this again if you like to push the limits. I know George is getting bombarded so you can always feel free to PM me and I might be able to help answer some questions

Thanks! Yeah I've been running about E20 (with the 0% 91 octane) on my JB1 (which I haven't changed any maps/settings on yet), and it feels noticeably stronger vs. running straight 91 octane. I'm not looking to run on the ragged edge, but once I get the JB4 installed and familiarize myself a bit with the settings, I'll for sure do a bit of tweaking so I may take you up on your offer. Appreciate it!

 

[0bLiViOuS]

As you can see I'm on here a lot lol. 2700 posts in a year shows I'm needlessly commenting way too much haha. I think as more people begin to run it the map 6 thread George started will give a really good baseline based on goals as well as boost targeting versus load boost adding (JB1 style)

 

[themyst]

For Rev1 unit E series for Rev2 unit F series.

To identify what unit you have check in the JB4 upgrade manual.

What is the physical difference between the E series and F series?

I didn't know which to order, so I ordered the F series model, but I have a rev1 box.

 

[George Smooth]

What is the physical difference between the E series and F series?

I didn't know which to order, so I ordered the F series model, but I have a rev1 box.

I am not sure what you ordered but on Rev2 units if its a data cable it will not have the grey cover on it since the cable sits iniside. If you ordered a upgrade kit to JB4 you will be short of the little Molex plug for the OBD.

 

[Diggs24]

Sent an email to order support and a nice man by the name of Eric emailed me my order details from the JB1. So, if you are like me and an idiot who deleted their email just email orders@burgertuning.com

I gave them my physical address and the month I ordered the JB1 and they sent my order details.

 

[George Smooth]

My fault, it was early and my question was probably confusing. Let me see if I can re-word my questions:

1) Will I notice any boost in performance if my E30 mix calculates out to 95.9 octane versus 94.7 octane? (Will explain more below)

2) To realize the gains you mentioned from E30, can we just use what comes pre-loaded onto the JB4, or do we first need to create a custom map to take advantage of E30?

Regarding 94.7 vs. 95.9 octane, see the below screenshots of the E85 calculator. For the 91 octane portion of the mix, I have the option of using gas with either 0% ethanol or 10% ethanol. Obviously using the 0% ethanol for the 91 octane gas portion will yield a higher octane, but wondering if it is worth my hassle as in that case I need to fill my E85 portion then drive a couple miles to another station for the 0% ethanol gas, whereas the E85 station also has pumps for gas with 10% ethanol. Hopefully I'm wording this all correctly.

I get what you are saying. It is hard to guess because even the E85 is not really that amount and in a lot of cases less. It will take some trial and error but starting from the bottom and adding more ethanol. If you going to be logging send them through and we can help in that aspect.

 

[George Smooth]

George,

do you have data on what the JB4 will produce with an IS20 on a 1.8T over the stock IS12?

The user we tested with did not want to go mad with the IS20. We stopped at 239whp. From all our testers we had for IS12 none went to the dyno. I suspect a comfortable point for those are 210whp.
Based on our findings with a IS20 motor on a Euro Polo GTI we pushed it up to 315hp on a flywheel dyno which translates to around 260whp at user request.
I reckon a good figure to shoot for is the 240whp mark if reliability is important.

 

[themyst]

I am not sure what you ordered but on Rev2 units if its a data cable it will not have the grey cover on it since the cable sits iniside. If you ordered a upgrade kit to JB4 you will be short of the little Molex plug for the OBD.

It was the bluetooth connect kit. I got it resolved, thanks man.

 

[flipflp]

My fault, it was early and my question was probably confusing. Let me see if I can re-word my questions:

1) Will I notice any boost in performance if my E30 mix calculates out to 95.9 octane versus 94.7 octane? (Will explain more below)

2) To realize the gains you mentioned from E30, can we just use what comes pre-loaded onto the JB4, or do we first need to create a custom map to take advantage of E30?

Regarding 94.7 vs. 95.9 octane, see the below screenshots of the E85 calculator. For the 91 octane portion of the mix, I have the option of using gas with either 0% ethanol or 10% ethanol. Obviously using the 0% ethanol for the 91 octane gas portion will yield a higher octane, but wondering if it is worth my hassle as in that case I need to fill my E85 portion then drive a couple miles to another station for the 0% ethanol gas, whereas the E85 station also has pumps for gas with 10% ethanol. Hopefully I'm wording this all correctly.

It's worth noting for everyone blending E85, or seat of the pants tuning for blends, that our system is not truly flex fuel compatible because it lacks an ethanol sensor. Without that, or without conducting fuel quality test before it hits your tank, E85 can vary between 51% and 83% ethanol. Calculators are only worth so much.

That is really more important for people getting that last 1% out of a tune running full E85, when a margin of error can cause an engine to fail.

When you're approximating blends and aiming for E30, the best case scenario is that you get E30, the computer can push within it's safety limits and you gain some power.

The worst case? You're way under E30, and the computer will react accordingly, limiting boost/timing, etc. to keep knock down.

Actually the worst case is you put in too much E85 and the fuel system runs out of headroom because of the extra volume of E85 needed because of how inefficient it is. Then you get EPCs, limp mode, etc. That's no fun at all.

 

[Lord_Flexington]

I would like to know if you noticed any difference among intakes in application? Not necessarily dyno related. Specifically with regards to the upcoming BMS intake


*tells us why your intake is the best when matched with the jb1/4

 

[flipflp]

I would like to know if you noticed any difference among intakes in application? Not necessarily dyno related. Specifically with regards to the upcoming BMS intake


*tells us why your intake is the best when matched with the jb1/4

If the differences aren't dyno related, what are they? Noise? Fitment? None of that will be affected by the JB1/4. It's been said before, maybe even by George, because there is no MAF on the MK7 platform, intakes are much less of a factor in how the car runs.

 

[Ton]

The user we tested with did not want to go mad with the IS20. We stopped at 239whp. From all our testers we had for IS12 none went to the dyno. I suspect a comfortable point for those are 210whp.
Based on our findings with a IS20 motor on a Euro Polo GTI we pushed it up to 315hp on a flywheel dyno which translates to around 260whp at user request.
I reckon a good figure to shoot for is the 240whp mark if reliability is important.

We got 240 (sorry, 239) with easy conservative boost settings that peaked lower than what I used to get into the 210 range with is12 turbo. After that run I moved things up 2-3 psi in different places and the logs looked great.

I have not had another dyno run. But if I'm not solidly at 250 I would be very surprised.

To me, the car feels very happy modified running the is20. It feels happier than the is12. It revs clean and pulls nice all the way to red line. The peak of 240 doesn't tell the whole story because the pull to red line is so much more powerful.

Winter is here and I have snow tires on now. I won't know more till spring.

 

[0bLiViOuS]

I would like to know if you noticed any difference among intakes in application? Not necessarily dyno related. Specifically with regards to the upcoming BMS intake


*tells us why your intake is the best when matched with the jb1/4

Also matters how you're testing. Moving with a proper heat shield won't have much temp difference if any. Sitting probably will heat soak a bit quicker though, but after 15-20 seconds of driving, they're pretty equal. All my IAT testing was done when it was relatively mild out though and I'm waiting for the next heat wave to see what the difference is like and hopefully borrow a properly designed open air to test with

 

[Ton]

The user we tested with did not want to go mad with the IS20. We stopped at 239whp. From all our testers we had for IS12 none went to the dyno. I suspect a comfortable point for those are 210whp.
Based on our findings with a IS20 motor on a Euro Polo GTI we pushed it up to 315hp on a flywheel dyno which translates to around 260whp at user request.
I reckon a good figure to shoot for is the 240whp mark if reliability is important.

George, what exhaust did the polo have?