Blackened PP brakes

[morricus]

I have always been a very aggressive late braker with previous cars on track, and the GTI has proven to be no different. I was a bit concerned with how the stock PP single piston brakes would perform on track, but have been pleasently surprised. They're certainly not ideal, but I can't really complain. But after two full track days, the front calipers are looking a bit toasty. I've seen no degradation in performance, but think maybe these things days are numbered. I am clearly pushing these to the absolute limit of what they were designed to handle. The paint has started to burn off, after most sessions the brakes are still smoking after a proper cool down lap. Have you guys seen similar burning? Have any of you experienced a failure of any kind?

 

[riceburner]

you sure its not just because the 'GTI' faceplate is missing? The paint might just be that way under the faceplate - unless you noticed before it was all red under the faceplate and took it off just to show us it is no longer all red, then forget what i said lol.

regardless, post your setup of pads and rotors. whether they are OEM or what brand/class. That's important. I think many have complained about OEM pads/rotors overheating/losing performance at the track.

 

[morricus]

I pulled that stupid faceplate off long ago, before I did any track driving at all. It could serve no useful purpose I could see except keep even more heat in. The calipers were a shiny, beautiful red before I started. However, the paint was visably bubbling and burning after each session.

I replaced the OEM rotors all around with new Centric high carbon rotors, pads on all four corners are G-loc R16. I know this is an insanely aggressive pad, but I'm still surprised by the burning of the calipers. Liquimoly racing fluid , titanium shims. And to be clear, they have not lost performance. Impressed with how little fade I've experienced, they've performed admirably. Considering these are a single piston set up, pretty cool. But this thing only has 2400 miles on it.

 

[jimlloyd40]

If they perform that well without fade I wouldn't be concerned about the paint. If VW intended them for racing I'm sure that they would have used a higher temp paint or no paint.

 

[morricus]

If they perform that well without fade I wouldn't be concerned about the paint. If VW intended them for racing I'm sure that they would have used a higher temp paint or no paint.

Well said, agreed. Just wanted to make sure no one has experienced failure, that I wasn't dancing with the devil and tempting fate. If anything, it certainly is interesting looking. Thanks for the response.

 

[Autobahn]

Normally the first session on fresh pads the pads are still bedding in despite any pre-street bedding methods. I normally pull off after the first 10 minutes otherwise by 15-20 minutes the temps get really hot and can cause some of what you’re seeing. Then second session is typically good and I can run a full 20-25 minute session. That might be the case but just speculating due to previous experience.

 

[victorofhavoc]

I just burned through a set of gloc R10 a couple weeks ago. 60% pad material gone in 4 sessions. I've gotten pretty fast and occasionally push the car to 10/10 (I still have to drive it home so I a rarely push it past 9.5/10.) The R16 are an even more noncompressible pad and can actually cook everything, including your tires and abs from constant lockup. I have a set of r16 being delivered today. The gloc pads dust a lot and their dust is super toxic. It eats away at paint and will stain surfaces. After 4 sessions my freshly cleaned calipers are even more discolored than ever before.

These brakes almost always smoke, but that has a lot to do with the lubricant you use as well; make sure you get high temp stuff. You'll eventually need some form of ducting. A BBK could buy you a bit more time and some pedal feel but will eventually overheat unless you get clean airflow in.

 

[jay745]

Time for a real BBK my friend

 

[morricus]

I just burned through a set of gloc R10 a couple weeks ago. 60% pad material gone in 4 sessions. I've gotten pretty fast and occasionally push the car to 10/10 (I still have to drive it home so I a rarely push it past 9.5/10.) The R16 are an even more noncompressible pad and can actually cook everything, including your tires and abs from constant lockup. I have a set of r16 being delivered today. The gloc pads dust a lot and their dust is super toxic. It eats away at paint and will stain surfaces. After 4 sessions my freshly cleaned calipers are even more discolored than ever before.

These brakes almost always smoke, but that has a lot to do with the lubricant you use as well; make sure you get high temp stuff. You'll eventually need some form of ducting. A BBK could buy you a bit more time and some pedal feel but will eventually overheat unless you get clean airflow in.

I used Permatex high temp ceramic extreme lubricant, so I should be good there. Thanks for the info on the R16's, I'm glad to hear from someone else that is running them. I ran Carbotech for years, but have never used G-Loc. I prefer pads with huge initial bite, these fit the bill.

I forgot to include that I have the Audi brake cooler guides installed as well. But clearly its cooling capabilities are like bringing a knife to a gun fight. I wrapped the lower ball joint and speed sensors with heat tape to try to keep those alive as well.

It seems like this blackened caliper is just a by-product of exactly what I'm doing, pushing the stock brakes to their limit. I want to keep the stock brakes in place until next year when I'll add coilovers, wider tires and BBK. It'll be interesting to see how charred the brakes will be by September.

 

[victorofhavoc]

I used Permatex high temp ceramic extreme lubricant, so I should be good there. Thanks for the info on the R16's, I'm glad to hear from someone else that is running them. I ran Carbotech for years, but have never used G-Loc. I prefer pads with huge initial bite, these fit the bill.

I forgot to include that I have the Audi brake cooler guides installed as well. But clearly its cooling capabilities are like bringing a knife to a gun fight. I wrapped the lower ball joint and speed sensors with heat tape to try to keep those alive as well.

It seems like this blackened caliper is just a by-product of exactly what I'm doing, pushing the stock brakes to their limit. I want to keep the stock brakes in place until next year when I'll add coilovers, wider tires and BBK. It'll be interesting to see how charred the brakes will be by September.

I'd focus on plumbing in cooling before the BBK, but that's just me... Coils made my braking more effective, but also eat tires way faster.

 

[tripleS]

Mine look a bit worse than that with 32 trackdays on them so far, the paint is actually gone on the ends of the"legs" where yours are blackend. I'll try to get some pictures here soon.

 

[tripleS]

Here’s what mine look like now. the dust boots look suprisingly fine as well.

 

[morricus]

^^^Impressive, most impressive. Im not too worried then, maybe a rebuild at the end of the year, but I will put BBK on the bottom of the list for now.

 

[donefor]

You're fine, this is completely normal and nothing to be concerned about if your pedal remains firm. In my experience, the first one or two sessions on a set of front pads and they're smoking when i come into the paddock - once the paint on the backing plates is sufficiently baked, it stops smoking

 

[N.G.S.]

Hey Morricus - NiceGuySanti here from the Evo forums - I just picked up a 2020 GTi this past Monday and had it out for it's virgin runs on track over the weekend at Pocono - Mega and North circuits. I did experience a similar thing, when I pulled back to the paddock the front brakes were billowing smoke on my 3rd and 4th sessions of the day. I did not experience any brake loss or fade but it definitely stayed on my mind. Thank goodness that I swapped to Motul 600 prior to hitting the track on the car which was stock except for the RE-71R's. I know that I would have boiled off the brake fluid if I didn't swap it out. I just ordered a set of RS-3 ducts and some lighter wheels to help stave off brake issues. I hope this car doesn't end up like the Evo which really suffered from brake problems with the OEM brakes.