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Bilstein B6 suspension & chasis rebuild

Cuzoe

Autocross Champion
Location
Los Angeles
What is this you speak of?
This will be long... Later Passats/Arteons with DCC had a slider in Individual mode. The slider allowed softer than Comfort and stiffer than Sport.

Those cars use the same DCC module as the GTI/R, but with Software version C. The DCC module also has a data set that is vehicle specific, to account for varying weight and weight distribution.

The DCC data set also contains a range of setting values for the dampers. Now we have to talk about the data set for driving profiles. This data set is stored in your CAN gateway. When you change modes (or settings in Individual) a request is sent from the CAN Gateway to a given module.

For example... In your GTI you set DCC to Comfort. Simple terms the Gateway commands the DCC module to use setting "1" of the GTI data set in the DCC module. This example we're assuming that setting 1 is Comfort. Let's assume setting 2 is Normal and setting 3 is Sport. Remember the driving profile data set in your gateway only knows how to send commands for setting 1, 2 and 3.

Now in those Arteons/Passats (probably Atlas too and maybe Tiguan) there are 15 possible DCC settings. So the DCC module data set will accept anything from 1 to 15. The driving profile data set in those cars is set to send commands for values 1 to 15. Without the proper data set on both sides this doesn't work.

I have a custom Gateway data set loaded in my car, talked about here. So I can modify it to send commands for values 1 to 15 to the DCC module. But my DCC module doesn't support that. I do have software version C which I can flash. But I also need the right DCC module data set. The GTI/R was never available with 15 settings so my intention is to load a Passat data set which does support 15 settings. I just haven't been able to get my hands on that data set.

Below screenshot is my car when I set up the gateway data set for the slider. I didn't leave it like this because it was not functioning. The DCC module didn't "know" what to do with all those extra values and the suspension was stiff all the time.
Screenshot_20220610-212101~2.png
 

aloha_from_bradley

Drag Racing Champion
Location
AZ
This will be long... Later Passats/Arteons with DCC had a slider in Individual mode. The slider allowed softer than Comfort and stiffer than Sport.

Those cars use the same DCC module as the GTI/R, but with Software version C. The DCC module also has a data set that is vehicle specific, to account for varying weight and weight distribution.

The DCC data set also contains a range of setting values for the dampers. Now we have to talk about the data set for driving profiles. This data set is stored in your CAN gateway. When you change modes (or settings in Individual) a request is sent from the CAN Gateway to a given module.

For example... In your GTI you set DCC to Comfort. Simple terms the Gateway commands the DCC module to use setting "1" of the GTI data set in the DCC module. This example we're assuming that setting 1 is Comfort. Let's assume setting 2 is Normal and setting 3 is Sport. Remember the driving profile data set in your gateway only knows how to send commands for setting 1, 2 and 3.

Now in those Arteons/Passats (probably Atlas too and maybe Tiguan) there are 15 possible DCC settings. So the DCC module data set will accept anything from 1 to 15. The driving profile data set in those cars is set to send commands for values 1 to 15. Without the proper data set on both sides this doesn't work.

I have a custom Gateway data set loaded in my car, talked about here. So I can modify it to send commands for values 1 to 15 to the DCC module. But my DCC module doesn't support that. I do have software version C which I can flash. But I also need the right DCC module data set. The GTI/R was never available with 15 settings so my intention is to load a Passat data set which does support 15 settings. I just haven't been able to get my hands on that data set.

Below screenshot is my car when I set up the gateway data set for the slider. I didn't leave it like this because it was not functioning. The DCC module didn't "know" what to do with all those extra values and the suspension was stiff all the time.
View attachment 252113

Honestly, this is pretty cool. My only question would be damper to spring ratio. Would you not be afraid that the two don’t match properly? It’s like putting an overly stiff aftermarket spring on a stock strut. It feels OKAY, but doesn’t surprise.

In my experience, a slightly stiffer damper to match the spring rate yields a more desirable result than an artificially soft ride with poor handling characteristics. This is why most after market springs actually feel better when the car is in race mode rather than the softer settings.

Just a thought. I’ve been searching for the perfect combo of street and performance. It’s a hard thing to find.
 

Cuzoe

Autocross Champion
Location
Los Angeles
@aloha_from_bradley Can't say I'm worried about that. DCC in current form gives you settings 1, 2, 3. The addition of the slider gives you incremental steps between 1, 2 and 3... plus 2 incremental steps before 1 and 2 steps after 3.

So you're not changing much on either and of a setup that already allows varying stiffness. By design DCC compromises some on both ends of the spectrum since the springs never change. A suspension setup exclusively for comfort should be more comfortable than DCC in Comfort, just as a suspension setup for track performance should be better on a track than DCC in Sport.

Subjectibely I would say DCC gets you 70% of the way there for either situation with the touch of a button. I decided to retrofit DCC (after nearly 10 suspension setup combinations) after realizing that I don't want a combo/balance between comfort and performance. I want a setup that can separately do both pretty well. DCC is not "sporty" in Comfort mode, and it's not at all comfortable in Sport mode.

Adding the slider might get me 75% of the way towards either direction... even better. I never use Sport unless on a freshly paved road so it's unlikely I'll ever go stiffer than Sport. To be honest I'm not worried about the settings that are softer than Comfort becoming "sloppy" because DCC still takes into account various inputs and makes constant adjustments. But if it is sloppy no big deal. I can still just select comfort mode which I already have and enjoy.
 

drshark

Ready to race!
Al,
Thanks for interesting update. No mention of the dogbone?

Speaking of which, I just added to our past private conversation—let’s get together next month…
Shawn
 

Mk R

New member
This will be long... Later Passats/Arteons with DCC had a slider in Individual mode. The slider allowed softer than Comfort and stiffer than Sport.

Those cars use the same DCC module as the GTI/R, but with Software version C. The DCC module also has a data set that is vehicle specific, to account for varying weight and weight distribution.

The DCC data set also contains a range of setting values for the dampers. Now we have to talk about the data set for driving profiles. This data set is stored in your CAN gateway. When you change modes (or settings in Individual) a request is sent from the CAN Gateway to a given module.

For example... In your GTI you set DCC to Comfort. Simple terms the Gateway commands the DCC module to use setting "1" of the GTI data set in the DCC module. This example we're assuming that setting 1 is Comfort. Let's assume setting 2 is Normal and setting 3 is Sport. Remember the driving profile data set in your gateway only knows how to send commands for setting 1, 2 and 3.

Now in those Arteons/Passats (probably Atlas too and maybe Tiguan) there are 15 possible DCC settings. So the DCC module data set will accept anything from 1 to 15. The driving profile data set in those cars is set to send commands for values 1 to 15. Without the proper data set on both sides this doesn't work.

I have a custom Gateway data set loaded in my car, talked about here. So I can modify it to send commands for values 1 to 15 to the DCC module. But my DCC module doesn't support that. I do have software version C which I can flash. But I also need the right DCC module data set. The GTI/R was never available with 15 settings so my intention is to load a Passat data set which does support 15 settings. I just haven't been able to get my hands on that data set.

Below screenshot is my car when I set up the gateway data set for the slider. I didn't leave it like this because it was not functioning. The DCC module didn't "know" what to do with all those extra values and the suspension was stiff all the time.
View attachment 252113
Hi @Cuzoe, did you have any luck getting your hands on that dataset? I understand user Chillout on this forum has the dataset and have reached out to him requesting it. Link to his post below for context:

https://golfmk7.com/forums/index.ph...-the-dsc-sport-controller.385091/post-7654299
 

Cuzoe

Autocross Champion
Location
Los Angeles

Cuzoe

Autocross Champion
Location
Los Angeles
Whoa! that's awesome! Thank you! Does that Github link also contain the Passat/Arteon Firmware in addition to the gateway dataset? I can't wait to try this out...
To my knowledge there is no firmware hosted on the site. Only gateway datasets. And I don't know if there is a downloadable "plug and play" dataset with the slider enabled, although maybe someone has posted one. My car came with no driving profiles, my gateway dataset is practically all modified by me (though I did start with a GTI dataset from the github) to match my car/retrofits... https://golfmk7.com/forums/index.php?threads/what-did-you-do-to-your-mk7-today.316916/post-7789876
 

Mk R

New member
To my knowledge there is no firmware hosted on the site. Only gateway datasets. And I don't know if there is a downloadable "plug and play" dataset with the slider enabled, although maybe someone has posted one. My car came with no driving profiles, my gateway dataset is practically all modified by me (though I did start with a GTI dataset from the github) to match my car/retrofits... https://golfmk7.com/forums/index.php?threads/what-did-you-do-to-your-mk7-today.316916/post-7789876
Thanks @Cuzoe the run down in post #31 is really helpful for understanding this concept, especially since ive re read it a few times (LOL). From what i understand, the gateway dataset you used is on the GitHub page. What about the DCC module dataset from the Passat? I gather the system won't work if you only have the gateway dataset installed because the DCC module won't know what is being requested. Is the DCC module data there too? If not are you able to share?
 

Cuzoe

Autocross Champion
Location
Los Angeles
So I ended up using a DCC dataset from the Arteon, though Passat would have worked as well and is a bit closer in weight to the Golf. The gateway dataset I started with (2021 NAR GTI, DSG) is on the Github page. I customized it heavily to fit my car... described here.

The Github main page does have an example dataset without slider and one with slider. I have not looked at them so I don't know what dataset they are based on. You can't break anything by flashing a driving profile dataset, I've flashed 30+ iterations of my custom dataset. But what can happen is that you will "lose" settings if the dataset you flash doesn't match your car. Examples...
Flash GTI dataset to your Golf R; you lose control over exhaust valves (which are part of the Engine Sound group in the R dataset) because GTI doesn't have valves
Flash 6MT Golf R dataset to your DSG; you lose control over DSG mode because the 6MT Golf R dataset doesn't have DSG settings


There is no way to pull your dataset from your gateway. If you (or someone you know) has VCP or ODIS online access you should be able to get your driving profiles back to factory. But if not you have to be careful flashing datasets from the Github, unless you know your car is equipped the same way. Or you plan to modify the dataset anyway.
 

Mk R

New member
So I ended up using a DCC dataset from the Arteon, though Passat would have worked as well and is a bit closer in weight to the Golf. The gateway dataset I started with (2021 NAR GTI, DSG) is on the Github page. I customized it heavily to fit my car... described here.

The Github main page does have an example dataset without slider and one with slider. I have not looked at them so I don't know what dataset they are based on. You can't break anything by flashing a driving profile dataset, I've flashed 30+ iterations of my custom dataset. But what can happen is that you will "lose" settings if the dataset you flash doesn't match your car. Examples...
Flash GTI dataset to your Golf R; you lose control over exhaust valves (which are part of the Engine Sound group in the R dataset) because GTI doesn't have valves
Flash 6MT Golf R dataset to your DSG; you lose control over DSG mode because the 6MT Golf R dataset doesn't have DSG settings


There is no way to pull your dataset from your gateway. If you (or someone you know) has VCP or ODIS online access you should be able to get your driving profiles back to factory. But if not you have to be careful flashing datasets from the Github, unless you know your car is equipped the same way. Or you plan to modify the dataset anyway.
Thank you, that makes sense. I’ll have a chat with my ODIS/VCP guru who has online access. Really appreciate your help! 👍🏽
 

autovelocity

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Canada
I just picked up my Bilstein B6 parts for a 2018 R but still waiting on new OEM mounts/bearing.
The factory Monroe's started crapping out at about 50k KM for me. They felt soft even in Race mode and started clunking pretty badly in cold weather.
 

HuntR

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Seattle
I just picked up my Bilstein B6 parts for a 2018 R but still waiting on new OEM mounts/bearing.
The factory Monroe's started crapping out at about 50k KM for me. They felt soft even in Race mode and started clunking pretty badly in cold weather.
I’ve got 65k miles on my 2017 DCC shocks-they’re definitely ready for a refresh-blowing through the travel. Please update us on the results.
 

RudyH

Go Kart Champion
Location
Kitchener, ON
I just picked up my Bilstein B6 parts for a 2018 R but still waiting on new OEM mounts/bearing.
The factory Monroe's started crapping out at about 50k KM for me. They felt soft even in Race mode and started clunking pretty badly in cold weather.
lol ya this is recommended...the OEM mounts / bearing before install.

I thought I would skip it, but first bump fail and cursed my impatience!
 

HuntR

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Seattle
When I finally get hold of my B6’s I’ll also be installing BFI LCA’s with the solid bushings-looking at rear bushings now and there are many. What is the biggest bang for buck rear bushing upgrades? Something to reduce some of the lateral movement back there. I’d rather not get too carried away back there, as there is something like 7 bushings per side.
 
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