Bilstein B6 suspension & chasis rebuild

[Al_in_Philly]

I’ve finally completed my modifications to my '15 R’s chassis and suspension. I’ll leave you in suspense (at least to the end of this posting) to let you know how it came out. But first, I should tell you what I was looking for.

I’ve been impressed with the overall package that the R provides. It’s multi-talented, somewhat sophisticated, and practical. Being city-dwellers who have to work hard to find street parking, it’s our only car. And though it always handled all of its roles well, I’ve never been happy with the feedback and feel between the road and the steering wheel. What I wanted was for the car to keep all of its utility and drivability but give me an awareness of the road that the car was somewhat lacking. I know it wasn’t possible to have 911 feel and handling (especially without sacrificing daily comfort and convenience), but I really did want to get at least a bit closer to that ideal. This goal was made even harder, because I didn’t want to lose any more ride-height in winter driving, so the stock springs were a must.

One of the first mods was to install a set of Advanti Hybris 19x8.5” wheels. I never was in love with the stock Cadiz wheels, so when I curb-rashed one of them, I bought a set of these flow-formed wheels, saving almost 5 lbs of unsprung/rotational mass at each corner. To be honest, I didn’t feel all that much difference in ride/handling, but they looked 100% better.

My next mod was to install a Eurocode front strut tower brace. My thinking was that making the front end even more firm would send me more info that was coming from the wheels. It worked to a degree. After installing the brace, I could definitely feel more of the road surface while driving; but still, it wasn’t anywhere near Porshe standards.

After I had about 20K on the car, I switched from the lame Bridgestone’s that came on the car to as set of Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires. Huge difference. Not only more feel, but better grip AND softer ride. I can't recommend these tires strongly enough for DD duty. Still, I had miles to go before I slept.

A couple of months back, I installed an 034 rear sway bar, but kept it at the lower stiffness setting. My wife drives the car as well, and I didn’t want the rear end to break away in a panic situation. Still, this yielded a significant improvement in balance when going through fast sweepers. That alone helped make the whole car feel more neutral—I should have started here.

Last week I finished the job, by replacing the stock Monroe DCC struts/shocks with a set of Bilstein B6 DCC struts/shocks, replacing the lower control arms and bushings with a set from Black Forrest Industries (which incorporated RS3-cloned solid rubber bushings), and adding an i-Sweep power brace between the control arms and subframe. This step scared me. Not only because of the cost of the shocks, but because going with firmer struts and LC bushings might just ruin the driveability of the car. Happily, that didn’t happen. After several “spirited” runs up and down Kelly Drive (Philadelphians know what I mean), some bouncing through the potholes of South Philly, and some miles on I-95, I am not only breathing a sigh of relief, but am pretty giddy about how everything wound up working together.

I almost never used the “comfort” setting on the DCCs, as not only did I not like the loss of feel in that mode, but when going over bad potholes with the original shocks, I sometimes bottomed out. “Comfort” was reserved for long, straight, stretches on the Interstate. Normally, for around town driving I had the DCC set to “Normal” stiffness, which suited me fine. But now, with the B6’s, the softest setting is pretty much the same firmness as the old “Normal” setting, but with one, notable, difference: the Bilsteins take the hard-edge off of the transition between compression and rebound—they are amazingly smooth in that respect. So, driving around pothole city is maybe even a bit more controlled in the B6 “Comfort” setting than I used to feel with it in the original Monroe “Normal” setting. On the highway, the ride in “comfort” is not just more controlled than with the original struts set to “comfort” but even more controlled than in the original “normal” DCC setting.

With the Bilsteins set to “Normal” the car pretty much rides like the old “Race/Sport” setting, but with a lot more feel coming from the front end.

Going into full “Race” mode on the Bilsteins, on fast, smooth, curvy roads, however, is nothing short of amazing. The slight vagueness of the original suspension is totally gone. You turn the wheel and it just goes where you were thinking. Zero drama. I’ve been taking some of my favorite curves faster than I ever felt comfortable doing before, and I still haven’t come close to finding my limits. My guess is that it isn’t just the B6’s, but the combination of all the other mods working together—better than I even expected. The ride in the firmest setting isn’t “brutal” either. Yes, too harsh for really bad streets, but you can do general boulevarding in that setting if you wanted to. But for now, that setting is being reserved for when I want to reclaim my inner child.

I've heard time and again people say that after installing a stage 1 tune that "this is how the car should have come from the factory;" That is how I now feel about the chassis and suspension on my R right now.

I hope that this has been some help to you.

 

[beanobeano]

Congratulations Al_in_Philly! I appreciate your breakdown and analysis. I went with the same B6s with Eibach pro springs last in the fall after I had slowly added an EMD rear sway bar with Whiteline end links, APR dogbone insert, and a Eurosport front strut tower brace. Just yesterday I had the Eurosport camber kit installed and I am very happy with overall the set-up. The level of smoothness and increased control overall and especially at high speeds astounds me.

B16s may evently be tempting but, as this is my only car, I'm protective of my my personally preferred daily drivability dynamics. In the future I may look into upgrading the control arms and bushing. I also want to strike a healthy balance between modifying and enjoyment of driving, which is different for each of us, without always longing for the next mod - which I can often do.

​

 

[Al_in_Philly]

I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who's seen what those shocks can do for an R.

I only wish that I had waited between installing the B6's, the control arms, and then the control arm/subframe brace. That way I'd have a better feel for which piece did what to the ride and handling. But it just made sense to do all three at the same time, labor-wise.

You might want to think about the i-Sweep brace though. Installing is a snap (just 3 nuts/bolts), and my guess is that some of the compliments that the Mk8 is getting comes from the new, more rigid, aluminum subframe. The i-Sweep brace does essentially what the stronger subframe does. It also doesn't eat up any ground clearance, which was important to me.

 

[beanobeano]

Thanks, I'll take a look at the i-Sweep brace.

 

[jimlloyd40]

Thanks, I'll take a look at the i-Sweep brace.

I have it and it made a nice difference.

 

[aloha_from_bradley]

So what springs did you go with?

Did you leave the car at stock height?

 

[Al_in_Philly]

So what springs did you go with?

Did you leave the car at stock height?

I stayed with the stock springs; they were almost the only original suspension pieces that stayed on the car. In the overhaul, I replaced every nut, bolt, strut mount, and bump stop with fresh VW pieces since the car was 6 years old with 30K miles and it was going to be all apart anyhow.

This is my DD. Living in the city, I have to contend with curb heights when opening doors (parallel parking is the norm), as well as some driveway inclines which I already had to negotiate carefully. Plus, when we do get the occasional heavy snowfall, with the stock ride height, I sometimes scrub the undercarriage even on plowed streets. Losing any ride height just wasn't going to be doable for me.

Also, for a car which would never be tracked, increasing both spring rate and damping was a recipe for making the car more one-dimensional than I was willing to gamble with. And given how the car now feels with the Bilsteins working with the stock springs, I know that I made the right choice for me. Somebody else, who might be willing to sacrifice a little more bump compliance or ride height might benefit from dropping in stiffer/lower springs as well. Right now, the biggest limitation going through corners isn't with the car, it's with how fast I'm willing to go, which is a nice balance point to be at.

 

[aloha_from_bradley]

I stayed with the stock springs; they were almost the only original suspension pieces that stayed on the car. In the overhaul, I replaced every nut, bolt, strut mount, and bump stop with fresh VW pieces since the car was 6 years old with 30K miles and it was going to be all apart anyhow.

This is my DD. Living in the city, I have to contend with curb heights when opening doors (parallel parking is the norm), as well as some driveway inclines which I already had to negotiate carefully. Plus, when we do get the occasional heavy snowfall, with the stock ride height, I sometimes scrub the undercarriage even on plowed streets. Losing any ride height just wasn't going to be doable for me.

Also, for a car which would never be tracked, increasing both spring rate and damping was a recipe for making the car more one-dimensional than I was willing to gamble with. And given how the car now feels with the Bilsteins working with the stock springs, I know that I made the right choice for me. Somebody else, who might be willing to sacrifice a little more bump compliance or ride height might benefit from dropping in stiffer/lower springs as well. Right now, the biggest limitation going through corners isn't with the car, it's with how fast I'm willing to go, which is a nice balance point to be at.

The reason I ask is because the B6 dampers are not meant to be used with lowering springs. I also think you made the right decision.

Glad you like the new setup. I too replaced all rubbers and hardware when I recently refreshed my suspension.

 

[Boje]

I also run the B6 Damptronics on my R and absolutely love them. I kind of went the other way – I used to use Comfort or Normal all the time, very rarely Sport, but now I find the dampening is so nice, I have it in Sport most of the time (even on NYC's terrible roads), unless I have passengers, when I make the ride a bit smoother. I paired them with Eibach Pro Kit springs, though – I did a huge amount of research on this combo and spoke to Bilstein on the phone about it twice, and they said it would be a perfect match. I hear it said on here a lot that the B6's should not be used with lowering springs, but according to both Bilstein and my mechanic who builds all kinds of cars, it's a perfect combo that won't wear out the struts sooner, as the drop is relatively minimal and the springs are slightly stiffer than stock. Just my findings for anyone else considering the combo. The drop with the Eibachs is a tad more than I wanted, but the ride is fantastic.

I'm looking forward to a beefier RSB and solid bushings like OP has done and I'd done on my GTI before this, that extra feel and directness from the front bushings is really nice.

Edit: oh, I went down a size in wheels though, I'm running 18s to compensate for the slitter stiffer suspension and I much prefer them to the 19s the car came with, because of the ride quality and the weight savings (and looks).

 

[aloha_from_bradley]

I also run the B6 Damptronics on my R and absolutely love them. I kind of went the other way – I used to use Comfort or Normal all the time, very rarely Sport, but now I find the dampening is so nice, I have it in Sport most of the time (even on NYC's terrible roads), unless I have passengers, when I make the ride a bit smoother. I paired them with Eibach Pro Kit springs, though – I did a huge amount of research on this combo and spoke to Bilstein on the phone about it twice, and they said it would be a perfect match. I hear it said on here a lot that the B6's should not be used with lowering springs, but according to both Bilstein and my mechanic who builds all kinds of cars, it's a perfect combo that won't wear out the struts sooner, as the drop is relatively minimal and the springs are slightly stiffer than stock. Just my findings for anyone else considering the combo. The drop with the Eibachs is a tad more than I wanted, but the ride is fantastic.

I'm looking forward to a beefier RSB and solid bushings like OP has done and I'd done on my GTI before this, that extra feel and directness from the front bushings is really nice.

Edit: oh, I went down a size in wheels though, I'm running 18s to compensate for the slitter stiffer suspension and I much prefer them to the 19s the car came with, because of the ride quality and the weight savings (and looks).

The B4s & B6s were meant to be used at the factory height. Even with the Eibach springs (0.2" front & 0.6" rear) you are reducing the usable range of the shock. I agree that due to how little the Eibachs lower you shouldn't have a problem, but the B8s really are most suitable for a lowering spring. Eibach's pro kit definitely lowers more than they advertise as well.

When I was ordering my Coilovers I called and spoke with Bilstein a couple of times, and let me tell you, customer support knew absolutely nothing about their own products. I was trying to learn how to measure the usable height range on the B14s, and I was the one driving the conversation. I ended up deciphering the instructions on my own and further educating the support rep I was speaking to during our call. It was actually quite comical. That's the reason I question Bilstein telling people it's okay to use a shortened spring with the B4s / B6s. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense considering they were designed to be set at factory ride height.

That all being said, I doubt you will have any issues with them, but there definitely is the risk that the shocks won't last quite as long. It would be a shame if Bilstein denied a warranty claim on their own product due to using a shortened spring on the B6s too, even though they told you that your spring choice wasn't an issue. Companies tend to do dumb things like that. I'll eventually get the B16 DCC compatible coilover kit, but that prob won't be till a bit later down the road.

 

[Cuzoe]

The B16 Damptronics were tested and found to only have adjustable rebound. Those running B4/B6 Damptronics (or stock DCC dampers for that matter) with lowering springs should run the DCC calibration. I run B4 Damptronics and I love them. I drive in Comfort 99% of the time. I typically put DCC in Normal, with everything else in Sport if I'm out in the canyons.

I'm in Los Angeles, FWIW, but I don't know how some of you can do Sport on city streets. Maybe I'm just too old spirited. I don't track but I can't do Sport on anything except new roads around here.

 

[Al_in_Philly]

I'm in Los Angeles, FWIW, but I don't know how some of you can do Sport on city streets. Maybe I'm just too old spirited. I don't track but I can't do Sport on anything except new roads around here.

Yeah, my dentist keeps wondering why my fillings keep falling out.

 

[Al_in_Philly]

One thing I left out of my "story" was that I had planned to use the solid GTI Club Sport bushings with my original control arms. I had purchased a pair from VW and was planning on having them pressed into the existing control arms but I found out that the nearby auto parts dealer/machine shop that my mechanic uses will only install bushings that they sell (expletives deleted). My mechanic, who I really love, said that he couldn't afford to have one of his lifts tied up for an extra day while waiting for another machine shop somewhere else in the city (if I could find one) to replace the bushings. So, I could either buy new control arms and ball joints and have it all assembled ahead of time, or get the assembly ready to go from Black Forrest Industries. I went with the latter, as it was going to be much easier as well as cheaper when all of the parts and labor were tallied up.

Now, I have the old, but perfectly good, control arms and the new CS bushings waiting to be mated together, if and when the current set up needs refreshing. By the look/feel of the original R bushings on the control arms that came off, 6 years is about all that they are really good for as the rubber had hardened up considerably. If I keep the car that long, I'm set. But even if I don't, having those parts in a box might help get top dollar whenever I do sell the car.

Just something you might have to take into account if you plan to replace your control arm bushings with something that has less deflection.

 

[Cuzoe]

Gotcha... I'm running the S3 aluminum sub-frame and Whiteline aluminum control arms, which has solid bushings. Also running Eurosport camber inserts in stock strut mounts. I tried and have since sold both the 034 and SuperPro fixed camber plates, too harsh for my brittle bones, .

I have none of my stock equipment except seats. No place to store any of it, not going back in, and plan to keep the TDI until it no longer drives, too many retrofits that no one will pay for, haha.

 

[Al_in_Philly]

OK, now that I've had more time to live with my suspension and chassis changes, I have an update on what that's done to my R's ride and handling.

First, with the DCC set to "comfort" you feel small bumps at low speed slightly more than stock with the DCC set to "normal." It's not annoying, and definitely far from being "uncomfortable," but I notice this when driving down side streets which have lots of patches done on the pavement. This is especially so when just one side is going over a bump or drop--especially in the back. My guess is that the heavier 034 rear anti-sway bar, even set at it's lowest torsional setting, is bringing this out. All of this is lessened as the car carries more load. However, hitting bumps/potholes at speed, it's just the opposite: any sense of impact coming through the seats is way more muted than with the stock setup on any of the DCC settings. If you've ever driven on an elevated expressway, you'll likely have experienced rhythmic up and down motions as you've transversed the major support beams beneath the roadway. In Philadelphia on I-95, just South of Center City, heading towards the Airport, there's about 1.5 miles of roadway where virtually all of the cars slightly bounce up and down due to this. With my stock suspension on "Comfort" I'd bob up and down through this area, just like the SUV's in front of me; it was a bit better in "Normal" mode; and in "Race" the floatiness was gone, but it was replaced with a less than ideal firmness when going over any bumps. Now, with my DCC set to "Comfort" the car just rides smoothly over those undulations while it absorbs virtually any sort of serious bumps at speed. "Normal" and "Race" settings can be used on the Interstate as well, but they don't really add anything that's needed on those conditions, but those settings do progressively transmit more of the bumps into the cabin. Not horribly so, but why decrease an already great ride/handling balance on relatively straight roads.

Second, the road feel through the steering wheel is way more precisely pronounced in any setting compared to any setting on the stock suspension. And that goes for any speed which the car is being driven. This was one of my biggest gripes about the R, which is now resolved--very tangibly so.

Third, I continue to be amazed at how much more precise the car is when going fast through twisty-tight roads at speed. With my stock suspension wearing Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires, there was always a sense of "I think I'll be all right" while trying to stay in my lane without slowing down. Now, with the DCC set to "Race" the car just goes exactly where I want it to go without the least amount of uncertainty. The suspension now feels in total harmony with the tires. And the ride quality, while definitely firm, isn't anywhere near bone-jarring at this setting either. I know I reported this earlier, but it's almost shocking how much more precise the car feels and how much its limits have been raised.

All in all, my R's bandwidth was reduced a slight amount by these various chassis and suspension changes, but it's handling capabilities were increased by an even greater extent. And, it's just more fun to drive fast, which is why I bought an R in the first place.

I hope this helps.