Big(er) turbos and the 1.8

[ZuMBLe]

Well, I think I reached the limit in ethanol percentage with autotech hpfp on is38. Ran E57 mainly because I was too lazy to pump 93 as I only needed 6 gal of fuel. Not a big deal except I got a CEL. Code showed lean bank 1. Put a couple of gallons of 93 and brought it down to E50. No issues at all with that. I will say at E57, car was even rowdier and more spirited at lower rpm than the usual E35 I run.

I really need to start logging and not just running blind

Probably rowdier cuz of the amount of fuel that needs to be injected for stoich... the turbo should be building boost earlier I hope your tune is not advancing timing past what the tune was made for.

 

[joedubs]

Well, I think I reached the limit in ethanol percentage with autotech hpfp on is38. Ran E57 mainly because I was too lazy to pump 93 as I only needed 6 gal of fuel. Not a big deal except I got a CEL. Code showed lean bank 1. Put a couple of gallons of 93 and brought it down to E50. No issues at all with that. I will say at E57, car was even rowdier and more spirited at lower rpm than the usual E35 I run.

I really need to start logging and not just running blind

Haha, yeah sounds like you're running out of fuel. We also saw @ZuMBLe running out of lpfp on is38 at only ~e40 so it's a shame you can't log your low side pressure too. One of the benefits to MPI is the low side sensor and you would be surprised how quickly that pressure starts to drop with the stock pump.

I'm curious what your trims are like.

 

[MonkeyMD]

Probably rowdier cuz of the amount of fuel that needs to be injected for stoich... the turbo should be building boost earlier I hope your tune is not advancing timing past what the tune was made for.

No idea but I'm going to log soon and post.

Haha, yeah sounds like you're running out of fuel. We also saw @ZuMBLe running out of lpfp on is38 at only ~e40 so it's a shame you can't log your low side pressure too. One of the benefits to MPI is the low side sensor and you would be surprised how quickly that pressure starts to drop with the stock pump.

I'm curious what your trims are like.

I've run e50 a few times with no issues, but then again, I'm not logging so could be on the edge of disaster. I'll post logs if I can get some good pulls.

 

[joedubs]

I've run e50 a few times with no issues, but then again, I'm not logging so could be on the edge of disaster. I'll post logs if I can get some good pulls.

@ZuMBLe could be targeting a richer mixture and/or more airmass too, both of which would contribute. I believe at the top of the run we started to see ~4.5bar of pressure on the low side (when it usually runs more like 6-7). 100% lpfp duty. Who knows when you would start to see an actual lean condition.

I'm also not sure how lean it needs to be to trigger a code, but I wouldn't want to use that as a safety indicator.

 

[ShagginGSW]

Well, I think I reached the limit in ethanol percentage with autotech hpfp on is38. Ran E57 mainly because I was too lazy to pump 93 as I only needed 6 gal of fuel. Not a big deal except I got a CEL. Code showed lean bank 1. Put a couple of gallons of 93 and brought it down to E50. No issues at all with that. I will say at E57, car was even rowdier and more spirited at lower rpm than the usual E35 I run.

I really need to start logging and not just running blind

I see you have a flex fuel tune, and you have the upgraded HPFP, what other fueling mods do you have?

 

[MonkeyMD]

@ZuMBLe could be targeting a richer mixture and/or more airmass too, both of which would contribute. I believe at the top of the run we started to see ~4.5bar of pressure on the low side (when it usually runs more like 6-7). 100% lpfp duty. Who knows when you would start to see an actual lean condition.

I'm also not sure how lean it needs to be to trigger a code, but I wouldn't want to use that as a safety indicator.

Yeah, I knew it was a bad idea, but just ignored tar feeling.
It freaked me out when I saw the CEL as I knew I was rising ruining lean. Definitely don't waste to use that as an indicator.

I see you have a flex fuel tune, and you have the upgraded HPFP, what other fueling mods do you have?

That's all. Stock lpfp and injectors

 

[ShagginGSW]

Yeah, I knew it was a bad idea, but just ignored tar feeling.
It freaked me out when I saw the CEL as I knew I was rising ruining lean. Definitely don't waste to use that as an indicator.


That's all. Stock lpfp and injectors

Thanks. I have been in talks with UM about running their ProFlex, I know that each tuner is different, but I was surprised at being told that E30 would max out the stock fuel system and MPI was a necessity.

 

[joedubs]

Thanks. I have been in talks with UM about running their ProFlex, I know that each tuner is different, but I was surprised at being told that E30 would max out the stock fuel system and MPI was a necessity.

UM has horrible customer service. The worst company to deal with if you have even a shred of knowledge and try to have a conversation with them.

That said they've been tuning for decades and know what they're doing, so is there a particular reason you wouldn't trust what they have to say?

To say something is being "maxed out" can be a bit misleading. If your tuner wants to have a certain amount of headroom and tells you what hardware you need to achieve that headroom, it is what it is.

MPI and a LPFP provide enough headroom to run lots of ethanol and max out the map/put sensors, even without a fuel pump controller (which means your LPFP is capped at like 85% duty anyway). Your fuel pump controller becomes the limiting factor in your fuel system.

I haven't tuned a fwd 1.8, so maybe they have a diff lpfp. But having helped a couple IS38 1.8's with their tunes, the is38 can outflow the 4mo lpfp at modest ethanol levels. Who wants to live life at the ragged edge (especially when you have no idea where that edge is).

 

[ShagginGSW]

UM has horrible customer service. The worst company to deal with if you have even a shred of knowledge and try to have a conversation with them.

That said they've been tuning for decades and know what they're doing, so is there a particular reason you wouldn't trust what they have to say?

To say something is being "maxed out" can be a bit misleading. If your tuner wants to have a certain amount of headroom and tells you what hardware you need to achieve that headroom, it is what it is.

MPI and a LPFP provide enough headroom to run lots of ethanol and max out the map/put sensors, even without a fuel pump controller (which means your LPFP is capped at like 85% duty anyway). Your fuel pump controller becomes the limiting factor in your fuel system.

I haven't tuned a fwd 1.8, so maybe they have a diff lpfp. But having helped a couple IS38 1.8's with their tunes, the is38 can outflow the 4mo lpfp at modest ethanol levels. Who wants to live life at the ragged edge (especially when you have no idea where that edge is).

They are pretty bad I'll give you that. I do like that their tunes are ridiculously priced compared to others and they have been doing it for a while. In the long run I will probably go with another tuned once I start doing MPI and ethanol, I was just a little surprised from what I have read here that right off the bat the recommendation from UM is MPI to run ethanol even on the IS12.

 

[MonkeyMD]

Got a log today. Not sure what to make of it. If I need to log different parameters, let me know

https://datazap.me/u/monkeymd/e50-log?log=0&data=1-4-7-8-10-11

 

[Zhars]

How much is Reflect charging for IS38 Flex Fuel tunes?

 

[MonkeyMD]

How much is Reflect charging for IS38 Flex Fuel tunes?

$800 for the tune
$150 for the flashing tool. You don't have to buy the tool, but forgot what the other option was, maybe rent. I would rather have the flasher in case I wanted to upgrade later on, or put stock tune on.

 

[ZuMBLe]

Got a log today. Not sure what to make of it. If I need to log different parameters, let me know

https://datazap.me/u/monkeymd/e50-log?log=0&data=1-4-7-8-10-11

Is this an OBD11 log? The sample rate kinda sucks. Not sure you have the right pedal output because it says 66. You should log pedal and throttle. You're not logging knock feedback, but the timing doesn't dip so I assume you didn't knock. Your boost numbers are conservative, your timing numbers aren't bad.

Fueling: Safe and typical
Boost: Conservative
Timing: Typical of a 1.8 on ethanol (aggressive, but not super aggressive)

 

[MonkeyMD]

Is this an OBD11 log? The sample rate kinda sucks. Not sure you have the right pedal output because it says 66. You should log pedal and throttle. You're not logging knock feedback, but the timing doesn't dip so I assume you didn't knock. Your boost numbers are conservative, your timing numbers aren't bad.

Fueling: Safe and typical
Boost: Conservative
Timing: Typical of a 1.8 on ethanol (aggressive, but not super aggressive)

No. Just a generic obd reader with Torque app. Didn't know you could log with OBD11. I can do that. Is it better?

I'll add parameter for knock. I imagine that's what it's called.

 

[Zhars]

$800 for the tune
$150 for the flashing tool. You don't have to buy the tool, but forgot what the other option was, maybe rent. I would rather have the flasher in case I wanted to upgrade later on, or put stock tune on.

Is the flashing tool able to log as well? As mentioned above OBD11 can log but sample rate is sluggish. Was going to go with the Uniconnect cable as I have unitronic tune, but the damn proprietary software wont allow to export to csv.