niel24
New member
- Location
- South Africa
Had to replace my cars battery today after 3 years, dealer charged a lot so I put in a locallly made one, should this be OK? Dealer charged a R1000 more than what I paid!
7
Battery replacement
- Thread starter niel24
- Start date
George Ab
Drag Racing Champion
- Location
- Pacific NW
Dealers normally charge more for standard parts. If I am doing the currency conversion properly $68US more for a battery from a dealer is pretty standard. VW does not make their own batteries so if you went with a quality manufacture with similar specifications you will be just fine.
BMW uses a an intelligent battery system which changes the charging cycle over time of use to maximize battery life (charging cycle is different when new then 3 years after install). This system requires you to let the ECU know you have changed the battery. To my knowledge VW GTI does NOT use a intelligent battery charging system. You are fine.
BMW uses a an intelligent battery system which changes the charging cycle over time of use to maximize battery life (charging cycle is different when new then 3 years after install). This system requires you to let the ECU know you have changed the battery. To my knowledge VW GTI does NOT use a intelligent battery charging system. You are fine.
peteryspang
Passed Driver's Ed
- Location
- Far East
To avoid the re-program the ECU after install the new battery, Is it possible to connect the new battery first before discount the old battery ?
Changing the battery on a mk7 isn't just a process of whipping-out the old unit and bolting-up the new unit! You need a BEM compatible battery and there's a set procedure that must be followerd if you want trouble free operation.
Below is a copy of the Ross Tech video that describes what's necessary.
https://youtu.be/IJAScg6JrYI
In addition to these steps, unless a mechanism is used for retaining the voltage to the memory on the control modules (i.e. using an alterative voltage source plugged into the OBDII socket), it's almost certain that a number of recalibrations will also be needed on various parameters like steering angle sensor and headlight range. These calibrations aren't difficult, but they will need to be done (likely)
Don
PS : the above is particularly important if your mk7 is fitted with a battery monitor control module (which lives next-to the negative battery terminal clamp)!
Below is a copy of the Ross Tech video that describes what's necessary.
https://youtu.be/IJAScg6JrYI
In addition to these steps, unless a mechanism is used for retaining the voltage to the memory on the control modules (i.e. using an alterative voltage source plugged into the OBDII socket), it's almost certain that a number of recalibrations will also be needed on various parameters like steering angle sensor and headlight range. These calibrations aren't difficult, but they will need to be done (likely)
Don
PS : the above is particularly important if your mk7 is fitted with a battery monitor control module (which lives next-to the negative battery terminal clamp)!
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George Ab
Drag Racing Champion
- Location
- Pacific NW
Thanks for posting the link Don. Interesting.
I have been reading a number of posts on the Audi forums concerning as Audi folks have been dealing with the Battery Energy Management (BEM) for longer then us. Yes, you should let your car know the battery has been changed so it can start learning the optimal charging regime. However, I don't believe you need a BEM battery. Just one of the same capacity. If larger capacity or different technology such as AGM vice Wet, you just need to let your car know that so it can account. Those channels are in Group 19 Can Gateway. If you change a digit on serial number, that will trigger the car to let it know you have a new battery. Some battery manufactures don't believe you need to do that, see here: http://bannerbatterien.com/banner/files/Newsletter_Technik_GB3.pdf but I would.
When I check my Group 19 Can Gateway battery inputs. I found capacity that matches, manufacture doesn't match what is in car (JCB vice VAO for Varta) and serial number is all 1's. If you check yours you will likely have the same. I would correct, but that will tell the ECU that car's battery has been changed.
If you have access to vagcom, I would change a digit in the serial number you have listed. If the capacity changed from stock 51A/h, with the replacement battery then change that.
Good article on installing a bigger capacity battery: http://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7926
I have been reading a number of posts on the Audi forums concerning as Audi folks have been dealing with the Battery Energy Management (BEM) for longer then us. Yes, you should let your car know the battery has been changed so it can start learning the optimal charging regime. However, I don't believe you need a BEM battery. Just one of the same capacity. If larger capacity or different technology such as AGM vice Wet, you just need to let your car know that so it can account. Those channels are in Group 19 Can Gateway. If you change a digit on serial number, that will trigger the car to let it know you have a new battery. Some battery manufactures don't believe you need to do that, see here: http://bannerbatterien.com/banner/files/Newsletter_Technik_GB3.pdf but I would.
When I check my Group 19 Can Gateway battery inputs. I found capacity that matches, manufacture doesn't match what is in car (JCB vice VAO for Varta) and serial number is all 1's. If you check yours you will likely have the same. I would correct, but that will tell the ECU that car's battery has been changed.
If you have access to vagcom, I would change a digit in the serial number you have listed. If the capacity changed from stock 51A/h, with the replacement battery then change that.
Good article on installing a bigger capacity battery: http://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7926
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I don't know about South Africa, but in the US a dealer installed OEM battery comes with a good warranty. And you don't need to worry about compatibility. I had nothing but problems with my MK4 when using the best Advance Auto Supply battery. Sure, it was replaced for free, but that was every 15 months. I even had the dealer check the alternator, but it was fine.
^^^ George: Yes, you can "trick" the CAN Gateway by changing the setting for the battery identification number and it will probably work for non-BEM batteries. But why do that (to save a few dollars)?
As you will be aware, a central part of the mk7's DNA is the calculation of "system Voltage", which is used by lots of control modules when making decisions about the Voltage rail in the car. For the correct decision to be made, the history file that is used for generating "System Voltage" needs to be accurate for the life of the battery. The veracity of the car's understanding of the battery's true identity is key to the correct calculation of this variable. This matter probably isn't important for some cars, but it's crucial for the mk7 (particularly if it's fitted with a battery monitor control module)!
Yes, save money by sourcing the recommended battery at the lowest cost, and yes experiment with other types of batteries as an intellectual exercise - but I'm not sure of the economy of installing a non BEM battery for a mk7 as a standard recommendation (sorry to disagree).
Don
As you will be aware, a central part of the mk7's DNA is the calculation of "system Voltage", which is used by lots of control modules when making decisions about the Voltage rail in the car. For the correct decision to be made, the history file that is used for generating "System Voltage" needs to be accurate for the life of the battery. The veracity of the car's understanding of the battery's true identity is key to the correct calculation of this variable. This matter probably isn't important for some cars, but it's crucial for the mk7 (particularly if it's fitted with a battery monitor control module)!
Yes, save money by sourcing the recommended battery at the lowest cost, and yes experiment with other types of batteries as an intellectual exercise - but I'm not sure of the economy of installing a non BEM battery for a mk7 as a standard recommendation (sorry to disagree).
Don
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niel24
New member
- Location
- South Africa
Thank you, I had endless problems with the cheaper battery, 1st unit leaked, was replaced 2nd unit also leaked, dealer insisted it is suitable for the vehicle, the leaking was probably caused by overcharging? Eventually had to go for the original battery, expensive but now have peace of mind. Thanks for the advice
golfdave
Autocross Champion
- Location
- Scotland (U.K.)
- Car(s)
- Mk7 Golf GT Estate
When I had discussions with Ross-Tech on the BCM for the MK7 & coding for. A BEM compatable battery was never found to be required.
The Battery control module has parameters for capacity & type which should be changed to reflect the actual battery for perfect charging etc.
"Make" might do something, & serial number just tells the BCM that the battery has been changed & you must at least change one digit of the serial number as this triggers the BCM to go "I have a new battery" more than changing the other values.
My car has been on a bigger AGM battery (not bought from dealers) for 18months now & no fault codes etc....
See my thread as posted by "George Ab"
However if you fit a battery which is made by a company not listed in the "make" range then I suppose there is a remote chance that the BEM might not see it correctly....IF there are pre-stored "profiles". However the info that I got was that setting the Type & capacity & changing one digit of the serial number were the most important items to change....
Banner batteries article on BEM here:-
http://issuu.com/bannerbatterien/docs/newsletter_technik_gb3/1?e=0
Mainly the car needs to be told that a new battery is fitted, this is done via the BEM code, however it can also be done by changing the serial number by one digit. The car will "self learn" by doing numerous cold starts etc.
So basically so long as you set the capacity & type correctly & alter the serial number you will be OK!
The Battery control module has parameters for capacity & type which should be changed to reflect the actual battery for perfect charging etc.
"Make" might do something, & serial number just tells the BCM that the battery has been changed & you must at least change one digit of the serial number as this triggers the BCM to go "I have a new battery" more than changing the other values.
My car has been on a bigger AGM battery (not bought from dealers) for 18months now & no fault codes etc....
See my thread as posted by "George Ab"
However if you fit a battery which is made by a company not listed in the "make" range then I suppose there is a remote chance that the BEM might not see it correctly....IF there are pre-stored "profiles". However the info that I got was that setting the Type & capacity & changing one digit of the serial number were the most important items to change....
Banner batteries article on BEM here:-
http://issuu.com/bannerbatterien/docs/newsletter_technik_gb3/1?e=0
Mainly the car needs to be told that a new battery is fitted, this is done via the BEM code, however it can also be done by changing the serial number by one digit. The car will "self learn" by doing numerous cold starts etc.
So basically so long as you set the capacity & type correctly & alter the serial number you will be OK!
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George Ab
Drag Racing Champion
- Location
- Pacific NW
Don,
Totally agree. Just trying to address the OP's concern as he has already replaced battery with a non BEM battery.
25 months on my 2015 GTI and it just suddenly died. I decided not to buy an OEM one, since I felt kind of ripped off by VW. Since the original one was ECM, I bought an AGM replacement, however the original one was 680 and couldn't find the same on AGM, so replaced with a 720 one. I didn't do coding on the spot, so all the way from the shop to home, I got messages of "battery low", but that was it. Once I got home, after the coding everything cleared and since it's been ok, no fault codes. The only thing I couldn't change through coding, was the vendor, but I'm guessing that's not where the money is.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
golfdave
Autocross Champion
- Location
- Scotland (U.K.)
- Car(s)
- Mk7 Golf GT Estate
You have found out exactly what I was explaining in my above posts....that so long as the "type" & "ah rating" are changed to match the new battery & then alter the "serial number" one digit it works all ok.....mine is fine since I swapped it 2yrs ago...& I have scanned my car a few times since then & no faults....
Chrisjoplin
New member
- Location
- Joplin, MO
Does anyone know if the new battery coding can be done with obdeleven? This is my first VW and the thought of having to buy a $200 Ross-Tech cable to reprogram for a simple battery change is hard to accept. I am sure I could find other fun things to do with the cable but nothing the obdeleven can't do.
bebersol
Ready to race!
- Location
- North Texas
Check you local dub forum or meet up, somebody will help you,
if you're near DFW I'll help you...