Basics for track?

[jmblur]

I’m not bringing anyone with me. It’s a half day school type thing so I assume the instructor will be with me for some of the time.

He means what track day organizer

 

[mrmatto]

He means what track day organizer

Oh lol. It’s the FIRM track in Starke, FL. They do the classes.

 

[Luva]

Thanks for the share. Wow, I did not know there was a road course in Starke, FL. You should have a blast! The track appears to have a pretty diverse mix of turns and features for the size.

 

[buttface]

I have recently gotten in to tracking my car (2 sessions in the PNW). FWIW, the only mods I did to my car before the 1st track day was just has a JB4 running map 1, and I upgraded the tires to PS4Ss. My buddy who has done quite a few track events convinced me to do a brake fluid flush with RBF600 and I am glad I did. That day was about 70-80F and we had 3, 20 min sessions in the morning and 2, 25 min sessions in the afternoon. After the last session my OEM pads were smoking in the paddock, and the brake pedal was getting pretty soft in a couple of the braking zones on that track. Can't imagine what it would've been like with the OEM fluid...

After that I got DS2500s and the RS3 brake ducts and just had my first track day this weekend with both of those installed and I had no issues with the brakes overheating or anything and was able to push much harder than that first day. Bonus is that FCP Euro carries RBF600 and DS2500 so free fluid and pads from now on with that lifetime warranty!

 

[tigeo]

Your school should have some info, I found this v. helpful as preparation reading when I did my first one last year:

HPDE-1st-Timers-Guide.pdf (wmc-bmwcca.org)

Brake fluid and pads - that's what I would recommend after my first one w/r to your car. The Audi Club recommends for the novice/green class just your standard street car as you drive it for the best learning experience but to make sure you have fresh brake fluid. I had the right fluid (RBF600) but my street pads and rotors were cooked after the first 24 min session and I lost the rest of the first day sourcing some new rotors and higher-temp pads and having it installed. After that and a fresh flush with RBF600, I enjoyed the second day wtih no drama but still was nervous braking after the first day. I was the classic "added power but not brakes" situation so my car is plenty fast to get up to speed but then of course you need to be able to slow down which the stock brakes were not up to the task for. A good air pressure gauge and a troque wrench to check your lugs after each session (after your wheels cool down) are good to have. Snacks/drinks/chair/shade also nice to relax between sessions. I'm doing the same event again next month and am excited!

 

[mrmatto]

Your school should have some info, I found this v. helpful as preparation reading when I did my first one last year:

HPDE-1st-Timers-Guide.pdf (wmc-bmwcca.org)

Brake fluid and pads - that's what I would recommend after my first one w/r to your car. The Audi Club recommends for the novice/green class just your standard street car as you drive it for the best learning experience but to make sure you have fresh brake fluid. I had the right fluid (RBF600) but my street pads and rotors were cooked after the first 24 min session and I lost the rest of the first day sourcing some new rotors and higher-temp pads and having it installed. After that and a fresh flush with RBF600, I enjoyed the second day wtih no drama but still was nervous braking after the first day. I was the classic "added power but not brakes" situation so my car is plenty fast to get up to speed but then of course you need to be able to slow down which the stock brakes were not up to the task for. A good air pressure gauge and a troque wrench to check your lugs after each session (after your wheels cool down) are good to have. Snacks/drinks/chair/shade also nice to relax between sessions. I'm doing the same event again next month and am excited!

Thanks for sharing. I do worry even with a half day session (since I have 3+ hours of driving time) I'll get to the point where my stock pads get roasted. So definitely planning to do high temp fluid and some street/track hybrid pads.

Currently looking at Hawk HPS 5.0 and EBC Yellowstuff -- these seem like they resist fade well while still being fairly subdued in daily driving. Do you have experience with these pads, or a recommendation? I considered DS2500 pads but at $200+ per axle, plus new rotors, it's a big chunk of change.

 

[tigeo]

Thanks for sharing. I do worry even with a half day session (since I have 3+ hours of driving time) I'll get to the point where my stock pads get roasted. So definitely planning to do high temp fluid and some street/track hybrid pads.

Currently looking at Hawk HPS 5.0 and EBC Yellowstuff -- these seem like they resist fade well while still being fairly subdued in daily driving. Do you have experience with these pads, or a recommendation? I considered DS2500 pads but at $200+ per axle, plus new rotors, it's a big chunk of change.

I have had EBC Yellowstuf f/r in my car for a year, they work well as a daily and were fine for my level/tires on the track. They were great for me for aggressive street driving say in the mountains on cruises etc. The Ferodo DS2500 are v. popular as well as the Hawks that you mentioned. I liked the Yellows for daily use and they only take a little more heat to get them going vs. a straight street pad but they feel nice b/c they aren't so grabby. Several folks were using the Yellows in my group last year.

 

[mrmatto]

I have had EBC Yellowstuf f/r in my car for a year, they work well as a daily and were fine for my level/tires on the track. They were great for me for aggressive street driving say in the mountains on cruises etc. The Ferodo DS2500 are v. popular as well as the Hawks that you mentioned. I liked the Yellows for daily use and they only take a little more heat to get them going vs. a straight street pad but they feel nice b/c they aren't so grabby. Several folks were using the Yellows in my group last year.

That's great to hear, especially considering the larger vehicle and higher speeds on your side. How did you find bedding them in? I've heard mixed reviews on that process for the yellows.

 

[tigeo]

That's great to hear, especially considering the larger vehicle and higher speeds on your side. How did you find bedding them in? I've heard mixed reviews on that process for the yellows.

It's simple - follow EBC's directions. Drive 200 miles basically like a normal person without any hard stopping (if possible obviously). Then do 5 slows from 60 to 10 one after the other. Then drive for a few minutes without stopping to cool them off. My APR brake pads for my BBK that are the hybrid street/track had the same procedure. The point is to get a nice even distribution of pad material on the rotor. I've done with a set of Redstuffs and Yellowstuffs - easy and the brakes always worked well (except reds on the track....RIP).

 

[spaparizos]

Thanks for sharing. I do worry even with a half day session (since I have 3+ hours of driving time) I'll get to the point where my stock pads get roasted. So definitely planning to do high temp fluid and some street/track hybrid pads.

A typical track day around here (North California) is around 5 sessions of 20-25 minutes. So overall you get on average 100-110 minutes of track time for the entire day. What org is giving you 3+ hours for half a day? That sounds like great value. What is the full day 6+ hours? Honestly, I would not worry about the car, I would worry about myself. 3+ hours of driving on the track would be draining.

 

[mrmatto]

A typical track day around here (North California) is around 5 sessions of 20-25 minutes. So overall you get on average 100-110 minutes of track time for the entire day. What org is giving you 3+ hours for half a day? That sounds like great value. What is the full day 6+ hours? Honestly, I would not worry about the car, I would worry about myself. 3+ hours of driving on the track would be draining.

Haha true, I don’t know if it’s truly 3 hours of full on racing time. You’re learning a variety of techniques. https://gorally.com/road-racing-courses/

 

[GTIfan99]

You're doing your school at FIRM, and that place is extremely tough on brakes.

DS2500's and 600 will be fine to start if you're a beginner, but as you get faster, the 2500's become a weak point. At least pick up a set of RS3 ducts. If you don't have time before your event to pick up a set, I have a set you can come by the house and borrow or you can have my GT3 ducts.

Also, I used to be on the side is you don't need to replace the stock rear pads when you go to a track front pad. I was wrong. It makes a big difference in driveabily trail braking.

Read the VIR thread for actual experience with track worthy pads.

Once you get faster and move to stickier tires, you'll blow smoke in T2 at FIRM every lap due to the PCV. I moved to the BL version of the PCV and it drastically reduced the smoke show, but added a cheap CC to stop it all together.

 

[mrmatto]

You're doing your school at FIRM, and that place is extremely tough on brakes.

DS2500's and 600 will be fine to start if you're a beginner, but as you get faster, the 2500's become a weak point. At least pick up a set of RS3 ducts. If you don't have time before your event to pick up a set, I have a set you can come by the house and borrow or you can have my GT3 ducts.

Also, I used to be on the side is you don't need to replace the stock rear pads when you go to a track front pad. I was wrong. It makes a big difference in driveabily trail braking.

Read the VIR thread for actual experience with track worthy pads.

Appreciated!!. I have a set of RS3 ducts on the way actually. Still undecided on pads though. EBC Yellowstuff have strong recommendations from some folks on here too. I really have to have a pad that can do daily driver duty too.

 

[GTIfan99]

Appreciated!!. I have a set of RS3 ducts on the way actually. Still undecided on pads though. EBC Yellowstuff have strong recommendations from some folks on here too. I really have to have a pad that can do daily driver duty too.

FIRM is really, really hard on brakes. Once you get faster, any pad that you can daily isn't going to cut it. Same with Roebling Road. Oddly, Daytona isn't that bad on brakes. I think because you have so much time for the brakes to cool before the heavy braking zones.

It's not to tough to swap pads the night before an event. Once you get faster with stickier tires, streetable pads become a huge liability.

Also, I edited my last post, read the last paragraph about the PCV. It's an issue at FIRM in T2. If you start having issues, you'll need to back off a little until you address it.

 

[mrmatto]

FIRM is really, really hard on brakes. Once you get faster, any pad that you can daily isn't going to cut it. Same with Roebling Road. Oddly, Daytona isn't that bad on brakes. I think because you have so much time for the brakes to cool before the heavy braking zones.

It's not to tough to swap pads the night before an event. Once you get faster with stickier tires, streetable pads become a huge liability.

Also, I edited my last post, read the last paragraph about the PCV. It's an issue at FIRM in T2. If you start having issues, you'll need to back off a little until you address it.

I appreciate the notes. I’m just going once for a fun half day and to learn how to handle my car better. A/S tires plus inexperience will slow me down. After that? Who knows. I’ll keep it all in mind.