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Autocross legality (ST) of deadset kit?

jmblur

Ready to race!
Location
Massachusetts
Ride
2017 Golf R
As far as I can tell, the Tyrolsport front subframe deadset kit doesn't replace any bushings, just adds conical washers to bolts and replaces some factory (metal) brackets. Given this, are they still considered "solid metal bushings"?

Is this still legal for ST? Relevant citation:

14.8k
Subframe mount bushings may be replaced, but must attach in the stan-
dard location(s) without additional modification or changes. Subframe
position may not be changed. The amount of metal in a replacement
bushing may not be increased relative to the amount of metal found in
a standard bushing for the particular application. Solid metal bushings
are specifically prohibited
 

bfury5

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
CT
I think it depends here on if the bolts attaching the subframe to the body are considered bushings. My guess is no (I've read the street touring rules dozens of times). The purpose of the stock bolts is just to hold the subframe,. A bushing usually locates and also provides a level of deflection for NVH purposes. The deadset kit stops the subframe from shifting under load, and I think that functions more like a bolt and less like a bushing.

Just my 2 cents! Also, are you planning any other bushing upgrades for the front end?
 

jmblur

Ready to race!
Location
Massachusetts
Ride
2017 Golf R
I think it depends here on if the bolts attaching the subframe to the body are considered bushings. My guess is no (I've read the street touring rules dozens of times). The purpose of the stock bolts is just to hold the subframe,. A bushing usually locates and also provides a level of deflection for NVH purposes. The deadset kit stops the subframe from shifting under load, and I think that functions more like a bolt and less like a bushing.

Just my 2 cents! Also, are you planning any other bushing upgrades for the front end?
I'm probably going to leave the stock bushings until they wear out otherwise. Not really fully prepped for ST anyway not am I planning on doing anything other than local events. When they do go I'll probably replace with superpro where possible (the duroballs aren't legal I don't think). Strut tower mount I'm likely going to try the Eurosport Camber kit.
 

bfury5

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
CT
I'm probably going to leave the stock bushings until they wear out otherwise. Not really fully prepped for ST anyway not am I planning on doing anything other than local events. When they do go I'll probably replace with superpro where possible (the duroballs aren't legal I don't think). Strut tower mount I'm likely going to try the Eurosport Camber kit.
Sounds like a reasonable plan. I'm replacing the rear LCA bushing with a solid rubber (RS3 style) bushing to keep the NVH tolerable, since I'll be adding camber plates.

Do you think the Eurosport camber kit will net you enough camber? Website looks like it says .8deg.
 

GTIfan99

Go Kart Champion
Location
FL
Sounds like a reasonable plan. I'm replacing the rear LCA bushing with a solid rubber (RS3 style) bushing to keep the NVH tolerable, since I'll be adding camber plates.

Do you think the Eurosport camber kit will net you enough camber? Website looks like it says .8deg.
I installed Eurosport camber kit this week and car is at shop getting aligned right now. I'll let you know tomorrow. My car is now 1" lower too on APR springs.
 

jmblur

Ready to race!
Location
Massachusetts
Ride
2017 Golf R
Sounds like a reasonable plan. I'm replacing the rear LCA bushing with a solid rubber (RS3 style) bushing to keep the NVH tolerable, since I'll be adding camber plates.

Do you think the Eurosport camber kit will net you enough camber? Website looks like it says .8deg.

It's a bit less than I want ideally, should put me about -1.5. I'd like to be right around -2, which the superpros would do (at the expense of more harshness). Reviews I've been able to find have been fairly positive for the Superpros, not so much for the 034s. The Eurosports should be the lowest NVH compromise option tho.
 

bfury5

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
CT
It's a bit less than I want ideally, should put me about -1.5. I'd like to be right around -2, which the superpros would do (at the expense of more harshness). Reviews I've been able to find have been fairly positive for the Superpros, not so much for the 034s. The Eurosports should be the lowest NVH compromise option tho.
Yeah I've heard -2 is a good goal. I had heard iffy things about the 034 as well, I was planning on running their engine/trans mounts but I've been putting it off due to quality concerns.

Honestly anything better than stock camber should feel great. I'n hoping I can get over -2 with the plates I have going on.
 

GTIfan99

Go Kart Champion
Location
FL
With a 1 inch drop on a GTI PP, I was -1.9 on one side, -2 on the other with the Eurosport camber kit. Zero added NVH, but you'll have to use a different camber solution if you want more than that. I'm up in the air as to whether that's enough.

It also makes -2.4 seem pretty reasonable with some of the other solutions, as they add significantly more neg camber than the Eurosport kit.
 
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bfury5

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
CT
With a 1 inch drop on a GTI PP, I was -1.9 on one side, -2 on the other with the Eurosport camber kit. Zero added NVH, but you'll have to use a different camber solution if you want more than that. I'm up in the air as to whether that's enough.

It also makes -2.4 seem pretty reasonable with some of the other solutions, as they add significantly more neg camber than the Eurosport kit.
That's more than I would've expected, but the drop definitely helps too. I think I can get -2.5 with the camber plates, but my concern is clearance for the front strut adjustment. It still had to be accessible through that tiny ass hole in the top of the strut. A camber plate maxed out will likely push the strut adjustment underneath the body, which is my main concern now
 

Crild

Go Kart Champion
Location
Florida
That's more than I would've expected, but the drop definitely helps too. I think I can get -2.5 with the camber plates, but my concern is clearance for the front strut adjustment. It still had to be accessible through that tiny ass hole in the top of the strut. A camber plate maxed out will likely push the strut adjustment underneath the body, which is my main concern now
Correct it will. You will have to cut off the tops of the struts if you want to adjust it.
 

bfury5

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
CT
Correct it will. You will have to cut off the tops of the struts if you want to adjust it.
Unfortunately that's explicitly not allowed per STH rules 14.8:

"C. The following allowances apply to strut-type suspensions. Adjustable camber plates may be installed at the top of the strut and the original upper mounting holes may be slotted. The drilling of holes in order to perform the installation is permitted. The center clearance hole may not be modified. Any type of bearing or bushing may be used in the adjustable camber plate attachment to the strut. The installation may incorporate an alternate upper spring perch/seat and/or mounting block (bearing mount). Any ride height change resulting from installation of camber plates is allowed. Caster changes resulting from the use of camber plates are permitted."

The question then becomes, how much camber can I get before I run out of clearance between the hole and the strut adjuster.
 

Crild

Go Kart Champion
Location
Florida
You
Unfortunately that's explicitly not allowed per STH rules 14.8:

"C. The following allowances apply to strut-type suspensions. Adjustable camber plates may be installed at the top of the strut and the original upper mounting holes may be slotted. The drilling of holes in order to perform the installation is permitted. The center clearance hole may not be modified. Any type of bearing or bushing may be used in the adjustable camber plate attachment to the strut. The installation may incorporate an alternate upper spring perch/seat and/or mounting block (bearing mount). Any ride height change resulting from installation of camber plates is allowed. Caster changes resulting from the use of camber plates are permitted."

The question then becomes, how much camber can I get before I run out of clearance between the hole and the strut adjuster.
You set it and forget it. You can get -2.5 with adjustables close to maxed out
 

bfury5

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
CT
You
You set it and forget it. You can get -2.5 with adjustables close to maxed out
Given that I daily drive the car and will be competing, I'd prefer to not have the strut adjustments hidden under the body. I'm hoping the lowering + plate will still get me over -2 and still retain access to the strut
 

Crild

Go Kart Champion
Location
Florida
Given that I daily drive the car and will be competing, I'd prefer to not have the strut adjustments hidden under the body. I'm hoping the lowering + plate will still get me over -2 and still retain access to the strut
If you daily drive the car you're gunna have a bad time
 

bfury5

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
CT
Ground Control's camber plates can be adjusted from the bottom with the strut in place.
Yeah I'm aware of theirs and Vorshlags which can also be adjusted without dropping the strut. I'm gonna run the camber plates that are coming with my suspension and then if they give me issues I'll spend the $400 on new plates. Would rather wait until I have to
 
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