Audi TT (8S) Control Arms

[MrFabulous]

Updating to where I am now in my quest. These two pictures illustrate the difference between the tapered insert on the GTI spindle and a TT spindle. The outer tie rod in both pictures is an 8J TT outer. The insert is what I can only assume to be galvanized steel since it does attract a magnet but hasn't suffered any corrosion from age. The steel insert would hold the taper better than aluminum which would loosen as used due to the soft metal. While it is possible to fit the TT outer tie rod to the CSS spindle, the taper engagement is not nearly safe enough and I do not recommend it.

What I ended up doing is to get a pair of TT spindles off ebay, removed the tapered insert with a simple ball joint press (about $50 on Amazon), and pressed the TT insert into the CSS spindle. Doing so will allow me to use all OE pieces in my assembly.

I did measure the insert and got a quote from emachineshop.com to reproduce the part. Such a small quantity is prohibitively expensive so for the small group of people who may be interested you're still better off buying used spindles and removing the insert.

I have no data on the extended inner tie rods from Hardrace. That could be the cheapest and easiest solution if there is a US distributor. But again, I wanted a solution that would use all OEM parts.

 

[yakev724]

Nice work, will follow in your footsteps this winter.

In the meantime chasing a very subtle clunk/creak since I replaced my ball joints + set to min track width. Only happens when I apply ~50% throttle and weight of the car shifts rearward (doesn't happen when accelerating gently). Will start with strut top mounts as getting a bit of creaking while turning near full lock as well... Sounds very similar to previous ball-joint induced noise though, just happens much more rarely.

 

[MrFabulous]

Not sure what I could be. I get a little more NVH from the new transmission mount bushings in the upgraded dog bone kit. I get occasional noise from the camber plates but it's tolerable. With the amount of upgrades done to the car so far it's going to make a noise or two. I will say I'm liking the setup better than the adjustable powerflex control arm bushings I had in the car before to add camber.

 

[jamstonmartames]

Hello Hello

I was inspired by this thread and have been collating parts for a while now, some new some 2nd hand and refurbing them. This is a working thread so bear with me on the parts.

The setup is a golf 7.5 r and the aim is to remove everything and employ the below setup

5Q0 199 369G Alu Audi MK7CSS Subframe
PART ID Alu MK7 CSS Spindle/Knuckle/Hub Assembly carrier/swivels (how many names for the same thing?)
PART ID Alu TT Lower Control Arms
PART ID Cupra/RS3/TTRA BBK 370MM
PART ID TT Ball Joints
PART ID Whiteline Sway Bar


Concerns from nuggets in the thread

1. The LCA's are 10mm shorter than those of pressed steel 00Zero jdlavelle1975
2. Using Spacers to offset the Brembo's on 19 prets will force the travel to hit the wheel arch liner @CZR @breakingbad however in my simpleton mind, doesn't adding spacers put the wheel back nearish to the pressed steel position? or is this a caster difference? @Yumichika
3. This setup may limit me on the more extreme side of negative camber as oppose to a desired -1.3/1.4 ° ish @oozero @odessa.filez @yakev724
4. Tie Rods aren't a perfect marriage and will have an effect on steering (still finding the quote for this one in this thread.)
5. Sensor positioning for DCC may be tricky if using TT LCA's @CZR

Don't mock the colour. I had leftover upol lying around.

 

[yakev724]

V pretty. If you're planning on tracking you may want to replace the dust boots in those calipers with higher-temp versions as they have been known to perish.

 

[jamstonmartames]

V pretty. If you're planning on tracking you may want to replace the dust boots in those calipers with higher-temp versions as they have been known to perish.

Thanks for the insight. I might have to do this at some point.


Any advice with regards to the following or is it all going to work perfectly?

1. The LCA's are 10mm shorter than those of pressed steel @00Zero @jdlavelle1975
2. Using Spacers to offset the Brembo's on 19 prets will force the travel to hit the wheel arch liner @CZR @breakingbad however in my simpleton mind, doesn't adding spacers put the wheel back nearish to the pressed steel position? or is this a caster difference? @Yumichika
3. This setup may limit me on the more extreme side of negative camber as oppose to a desired -1.3/1.4 ° ish @oozero @odessa.filez @yakev724
4. Tie Rods aren't a perfect marriage and will have an effect on steering (still finding the quote for this one in this thread.)
5. Sensor positioning for DCC may be tricky if using TT LCA's @CZR @LeGti

 

[q74]

Thanks for the insight. I might have to do this at some point.


Any advice with regards to the following or is it all going to work perfectly?

1. The LCA's are 10mm shorter than those of pressed steel @00Zero @jdlavelle1975
2. Using Spacers to offset the Brembo's on 19 prets will force the travel to hit the wheel arch liner @CZR @breakingbad however in my simpleton mind, doesn't adding spacers put the wheel back nearish to the pressed steel position? or is this a caster difference? @Yumichika
3. This setup may limit me on the more extreme side of negative camber as oppose to a desired -1.3/1.4 ° ish @oozero @odessa.filez @yakev724
4. Tie Rods aren't a perfect marriage and will have an effect on steering (still finding the quote for this one in this thread.)
5. Sensor positioning for DCC may be tricky if using TT LCA's @CZR @LeGti

1. This info is wrong, with correct ball joints, they are actually longer overall and will increase track and camber.
2. Not sure what your refering to here? I will say that wheel fitment is extremely dependent on a large number of factors and camber gain methods (top vs bottom vs knuckle/spindle). What wheels are you trying to fit with which BBK and what spacers planned to use? Might be able to help with more direct information.
3. Not sure what the question here is? Minimum or Maximum camber? The mixture of the TT LCA and CSS knuckle/spindle with stock top-mount will basically set your minimum camber to somewhere around -2.0 to -2.5, unsure exactly, but your minimum camber with this mix will be high. I doubt very much you'll be able to get lower than -2.0
4. For what I think your attempting, the stock tie-rods will be fine. At minimum ball joint distance/camber, the tierods will be good, but if you want more camber/track-width from the bottom you'll need to start thinking about switching to hardrace "stance" tie-rods.
5. I did not have any issues with mine, but I've others did - not sure why. The sensors for DCC lined up perfectly for me, but measure before installing, drilling a small hole is trivial.

 

[odessa.filez]

You're both correct on 1.
The alum LCA us indeed shorter, but the Audi adjustable ball joint plate is way bigger than the standard GTI ball joint plate (think I poated pics on this thread somewhere). The Audi arm + ball joint combo is longer than the GTI combo.

Post in thread 'Audi TT (8S) Control Arms' https://golfmk7.com/forums/index.php?threads/audi-tt-8s-control-arms.323948/post-6716497

 

[replicate]

So there is a way to make this all work well I believe. But you need to go all in. That is to also run the TT knuckle. A guy posted on FB that he fitted TT knuckles to his S3. He says that the TT knuckle runs way less (nearly positive) camber which offsets the added camber from the LCA. The benefit of the TTS knuckle is it has improved roll centre!! how much I don't know. You need to also run the TT tie rods as well due to the different taper on the knuckle. Annoyingly the TT knuckle is the same cost as the CCS units (expensive now) and I'm having trouble finding a second hand unit. But I'm keen to give this setup a go. Mainly for the roll centre.

 

[jamstonmartames]

So there is a way to make this all work well I believe. But you need to go all in. That is to also run the TT knuckle. A guy posted on FB that he fitted TT knuckles to his S3. He says that the TT knuckle runs way less (nearly positive) camber which offsets the added camber from the LCA. The benefit of the TTS knuckle is it has improved roll centre!! how much I don't know. You need to also run the TT tie rods as well due to the different taper on the knuckle. Annoyingly the TT knuckle is the same cost as the CCS units (expensive now) and I'm having trouble finding a second hand unit. But I'm keen to give this setup a go. Mainly for the roll centre.

So as @replicate, @odessa.filez @q74 have all pointed out, there are a lot of considerations to be had and as such have now found with all the pieces being mounted

Control arms (8S0407151D) are from a TT mk3

Ball joints (8J0407366/5R) from a TT mk3 (Febi Aftermarkets, some prefer Lemforder which is the OEM brand)

Alu Subframe (5Q0199369G) from a Audi S3

1LE -> Brakes (5F0615105/5) from an Cupra Leon R

Hub Carriers (5Q0407253/4E) from a GTI Clubsport S CJXG

1LD,1LE, 1ZA,1ZK Wheel Bearing (8S0498625) from a GTI Clubsport S CJXG

Racingline (VWR150002) Alu Specific (Torque /Dogbone /Pendulum and "whatever anyone else wants to call this thing" Mount

Whiteline (BWK019) Sway and Rod Pack (NB Anything bigger than 24mm on the sway thickness will hit the racingline mount above) Chamfering is required!

DD'S 12 and 15mm Hubcentric Spacers at 57.1mm so the brakes don't rub.

1. So CSS knuckles will only fit if you mount them incorrectly; on top of the LCA as oppose to the bottom with the plate on top. @yakev724 found HERE that when flipping them over to the correct position the noises dissapeared. (To be expected if this is the correct way)
2. TT knuckles are a must if you want to mount correctly as the CSS knuckles catch the end of the LCA's... fleabay search now begins, but as @replicate pointed out, tie rods may need to be changed as @MrFabulous has found out M12 vs M14.
3. Running 1.7 negative either side which is less than the Cupra R ST (-2deg) is tracking from factory link, but toe running nearly neutral so tyres may actually survive

Will keep you posted but so far corners like a FWD Porsche.

 

[yakev724]

Only caveat to your post are any part numbers that start with 8S are TT mk3 parts.

That's exactly my setup now but with stock front sway, megane rs brakes, and pss10 with eurosport pucks.

Wouldn't mind changing for tt knuckles + tie rods but only if there's an improvement in geometry and someone else does it first!

 

[jamstonmartames]

Only caveat to your post are any part numbers that start with 8S are TT mk3 parts.

That's exactly my setup now but with stock front sway, megane rs brakes, and pss10 with eurosport pucks.

Wouldn't mind changing for tt knuckles + tie rods but only if there's an improvement in geometry and someone else does it first!

I will edit it now

 

[jamstonmartames]

Only caveat to your post are any part numbers that start with 8S are TT mk3 parts.

That's exactly my setup now but with stock front sway, megane rs brakes, and pss10 with eurosport pucks.

Wouldn't mind changing for tt knuckles + tie rods but only if there's an improvement in geometry and someone else does it first!

Do you have your ball joints on top or below?

 

[yakev724]

Do you have your ball joints on top or below?

Below the arms. I believe this is factory orientation on the TT.

 

[jamstonmartames]

Below the arms. I believe this is factory orientation on the TT.

With CSS Spindles?