GOLFMK8
GOLFMK7
GOLFMK6
GOLFMKV

Audi s3 springs on golf r

Greg_mk7

Ready to race!
Location
Montreal
Car(s)
2017 golf R
"Despite improved anti-roll bar systems (mainly due to strut-mounted links), ARBs can never do much more than, say, halve the roll without badly affecting ride comfort, unless actively controlled (as is the case with some BMW and Range Rover models). Ultimately, bump stops and spring aids are among the most influential components in limiting body lean, ... . One of the most important considerations during suspension setup and design is optimizing the ‘contact point’ relative to wheel position (taking into account suspension velocity ratios)." From: insights-into-bump-stop-tuning.html

I have tested 3 linear sets of Eibach springs in my GTI next to the factory springs. All tests were done w/ B8 shocks.
View attachment 287014
Eyebows up please, w/o looking at spring rates each Eibach variant felt more planted with less roll than the factory springs. The GTI pro-kit felt the stiffest from all, it was riding the bump stops the most. For my liking the front was too low w/ the GTI kit. With the stiffer front spring of the GTD kit the car came up by 8mm, steering woke up, and got more complaint w/ no crashing. However the pitch balance was off, and the rear axle felt a lot weaker than the front. Since I prefer a supportive rear axle I went w/ the R kit. The rear came up by 9mm (not ideal from the looks) but now the pitch balance is spot on, there's enough support from the rear end, and has better protection for loaded situations. I don't avoid road imperfections any more. With all 3 sets I have played w/ different bump stops and bump stop lenghts (best results table).

It's surprising how big of an effect you can have w/ a small change of the contact point. I actually suggest to start there with suspension tuning. Clip e.g. a 10mm spacer between shock end and bump stop to the piston rod, and experience the difference in roll and handling. There shouldn't be too much of an effect in crashing. Then add 10mm more...



At least over here in Germany Eibach takes their time to test their parts, and get them TÜV approved. It's a quite involved process to get all variants TÜV approved as an aftermarket company. Please check the attached pdf. According to the TÜV you have to select the minimum springs for your max axle payload in your car out of the attached pdf. However you can chose springs for higher pay loads as well. So running R springs in a GTI is okay, but you can't use GTI springs in a R.
I dont want to put those eibachs on my car.
I don’t completely understand your chart, the ride hide I understand the other 2 columns under bump stop where you have -5etc….not sure what that means.
 

ZERO815

Autocross Champion
Location
Köln Germany
Car(s)
2017 GTI SE DSG
I‘ve shortened the factory bump stops by that number from the top.

All I wanted to say was shorter and softer spring doesn’t necessarily mean worse, because you have to look at the whole system. Bump stops play a much bigger role than most people think.

Since I don’t pay for labor I have entertained the idea to try even more factory or aftermarket springs. MQB parts are available used for cheap. I have had H&R progressive springs too, but to deal with 2x progressive components wasn‘t it for me.
 

UtahMK7.5

Ready to race!
Location
Eagle Mountain, Utah
Car(s)
MK7.5 R
I was on the same boat with springs not to long ago. I ended up going with a MSS kit since it's adjustable. I brought it to a 20mm drop for summer and figured I could raise it in winter time. I absolutely love the ride and look my R has now. It might be worth checking out.
 

tigeo

Autocross Champion
Bump stops play a much bigger role than most people think.
Yep. I have a 4Mo GSW so similar weight to the R (a little heavier). I run B8s and H&R Sport springs. I just recently swapped in R jounce bumpers out back to increase the touch point by 1/2". Per the article you linked it sounds ideal to have front touch point smaller than rear which I now have. Great info BTW thank you.
 
Last edited:

aloha_from_bradley

Autocross Champion
Location
AZ
Most of the well known after market spring offerings don't recommend trimming bump stops on DCC cars. The ones who do honestly haven't done their research and just assume all bump stops from this gen are the same. This applies to MK7 vs. 7.5.

The bump stops are a different length and are made from different materials. DCC cars have an internal ring in the bump stop that's a harder material. I went back and forth on this with Neuspeed for awhile, and I'm pretty sure I was riding on the front bumps while I had their springs installed on my 7.5.

So, yes. 100% agree with this. My comment at the beginning of this thread echoes some of the others I've seen. You have to look at suspension mechanics as a whole. It's not a binary approach. You can't just look at spring rate and the car the part was removed from and make assumptions.
 
Last edited:

tigeo

Autocross Champion
Most of the well known after market spring offerings don't recommend trimming bump stops on DCC cars. The ones who do honestly haven't done their research and just assume all bump stops from this gen are the same. This applies to MK7 vs. 7.5.

The bump stops are a different length and are made from different materials. DCC cars have an internal ring in the bump stop that's a harder material. I went back and forth on this with Neuspeed for awhile, and I'm pretty sure I was riding on the front bumps while I had their springs installed on my 7.5.

So, yes. 100% agree with this. My comment at the beginning of this thread echoed some of the others I've seen. You have to look at suspension mechanics as a whole. It's not a binary approach. You can't just look at spring rate and the car the part was removed from and make assumptions.
Yes...R stops have a plastic "donut" in them. Here's my 4Mo Sportwagen rear stops with my new R stops. I'm guessing the R stops are a higher progressive rate and probably have a similar max compression length as the longer GSW ones.

20230717_163316.jpg
20230717_122143.jpg
20230717_163310.jpg
 

tigeo

Autocross Champion
On bump stops...Dinan has some good info in this somewhat long podcast:

 

tigeo

Autocross Champion
I have had H&R progressive springs too, but to deal with 2x progressive components wasn‘t it for me.
The H&R Sport springs are really just a dual rate vs. progressive. The dead coils are the low rate to take up the "slack" at full extension and act effectively as a spacer and the other portion (widely spaced coils) are the primary spring/rate. So when driving you have a linear rate with progressiveness added by the bump stops.
 

krs

Autocross Champion
Location
Las Vegas, NV
Car(s)
MKVIIS R
Yes...R stops have a plastic "donut" in them. Here's my 4Mo Sportwagen rear stops with my new R stops. I'm guessing the R stops are a higher progressive rate and probably have a similar max compression length as the longer GSW ones.

View attachment 287118View attachment 287119View attachment 287120

Do you know what the white collar on the bump stops do? Is it something like a limiter piece to minimize expansion?

Very informative thread.
 

tigeo

Autocross Champion
Do you know what the white collar on the bump stops do? Is it something like a limiter piece to minimize expansion?

Very informative thread.
I believe so...another tuning tool I think.
 

ZERO815

Autocross Champion
Location
Köln Germany
Car(s)
2017 GTI SE DSG
Yes...R stops have a plastic "donut" in them. Here's my 4Mo Sportwagen rear stops with my new R stops. I'm guessing the R stops are a higher progressive rate and probably have a similar max compression length as the longer GSW ones.

View attachment 287118View attachment 287119View attachment 287120

To my knowledge the POM insert at the top end increases the block height, not so much the rate. Depending on piston rod diameter (passive shocks 13mm, DCC 16mm) VW uses part numbers w/ similar block length. The R parts have a longer block length. I guess it's because of 19" wheels and otherwise clearance issues in full jounce.

1690651489514.png


Do you know what the white collar on the bump stops do? Is it something like a limiter piece to minimize expansion?

Very informative thread.
The white collar is a rate ring. I've tried my rear bump stops to run without the ring at 335mm ride height. Comfortwise the engaging was much rounder, however potholes were the worst enemies with a very loud metallic clunk.
 

ZERO815

Autocross Champion
Location
Köln Germany
Car(s)
2017 GTI SE DSG
The H&R Sport springs are really just a dual rate vs. progressive. The dead coils are the low rate to take up the "slack" at full extension and act effectively as a spacer and the other portion (widely spaced coils) are the primary spring/rate. So when driving you have a linear rate with progressiveness added by the bump stops.
I agree and disagree here. In theory the dead coils do nothing, however with a similar ride height - H&R to Eibach linear GTI kit - it was a big difference for me. I might be different here, but I don't like "floaty" vehicles. W/ the H&R it felt to me around ride height (at 60mph on flat looking roads) the body is constantly moving up and down just a couple of millimeters. This behavior was gone w/ factory springs and each Eibach variant I've tried. Just my 2c.
 

tigeo

Autocross Champion
To my knowledge the POM insert at the top end increases the block height, not so much the rate. Depending on piston rod diameter (passive shocks 13mm, DCC 16mm) VW uses part numbers w/ similar block length. The R parts have a longer block length. I guess it's because of 19" wheels and otherwise clearance issues in full jounce.

View attachment 287135


The white collar is a rate ring. I've tried my rear bump stops to run without the ring at 335mm ride height. Comfortwise the engaging was much rounder, however potholes were the worst enemies with a very loud metallic clunk.
Ok to make sure I'm understanding...block length is the max compressed length of the bump stop?
 

ZERO815

Autocross Champion
Location
Köln Germany
Car(s)
2017 GTI SE DSG
Ok to make sure I'm understanding...block length is the max compressed length of the bump stop?
Yes, it’s the compressed length at 5kN
 
Top