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Audi s3 springs on golf r

Greg_mk7

Ready to race!
Location
Montreal
Car(s)
2017 golf R
Has anyone put Audi s3 springs on a golf r before?
Ive been searching for aftermarket springs that dont lower the car but are stiffer and they dont exist. Eibach pro kit which offers the least drop are softer than oem.
My brother has a 2018 s3 and I’ve measured the wheel gap between cars and they are almost identical, the rear is maybe a couple of mm lower. The s3 spring rates are much higher and there are alot for sale used that i can pick up for 100$.

S3 spring rate: 310 front 360rear
Golf r: 195 front 245 rear
 

MonkeyMD

Autocross Champion
Someone has and the S3 springs are shorter than the Golf R so it will lower it especially in the rear so you have to use TT spring pads and even with that the rear will sit slightly lower than the front.

Of course you can get the Emmanuelle Designs reverse rake pad. It's 10mm vs the 5 for the TT one afaik.

https://www.emdauto.com/products/em...-reverse-rake-adapter-pad?variant=23493457927

Of course this was on a wagon so might differ on a Golf R
 
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The Fed

Old Guys Rule
Location
Florida
Are the struts the same dimensions, since I understand the S3 uses "magnetic ride" and the R uses "multi-valves"? I had the valved struts on a Mazda. Thet wore out at 50K miles, and even on soft there was little damping. The car felt like it had no shocks. Lucky I was MUCH younger.
 

aloha_from_bradley

Autocross Champion
Location
AZ
Has anyone put Audi s3 springs on a golf r before?
Ive been searching for aftermarket springs that dont lower the car but are stiffer and they dont exist. Eibach pro kit which offers the least drop are softer than oem.
My brother has a 2018 s3 and I’ve measured the wheel gap between cars and they are almost identical, the rear is maybe a couple of mm lower. The s3 spring rates are much higher and there are alot for sale used that i can pick up for 100$.

S3 spring rate: 310 front 360rear
Golf r: 195 front 245 rear

Why do you want stiffer with the same height? The car will arguably handle worse, especially around a track. Sounds like you don’t have DCC?

Remember that spring rate isn’t everything. The Eibach Pro Kit has a shorter spring. They feel stiffer than the stock springs. I’ve had two different sets. The fronts definitely lower more than advertised. All drive modes are noticeably more firm than stock. You would be best just leaving the stock springs on the car.

You can’t just measure the two cars and assume. They might both be MQB, but they don’t weigh the same, and the length of the springs are different.
 

Greg_mk7

Ready to race!
Location
Montreal
Car(s)
2017 golf R
Why do you want stiffer with the same height? The car will arguably handle worse, especially around a track. Sounds like you don’t have DCC?

Remember that spring rate isn’t everything. The Eibach Pro Kit has a shorter spring. They feel stiffer than the stock springs. I’ve had two different sets. The fronts definitely lower more than advertised. All drive modes are noticeably more firm than stock. You would be best just leaving the stock springs on the car.

You can’t just measure the two cars and assume. They might both be MQB, but they don’t weigh the same, and the length of the springs are different.
I want the same ride height because it snows alot in the winter where I live and i feel the car looks good as it is. I also dont want to damage the struts with lowering springs. I want them stiffer because I find the car to be incredibly undersprung, crashes over little bumps but floats and dips with little resistance over dips in the road. Im on bilstein b6 damptronic and even when i had oem dcc i still felt like it was under-sprung, many reviews of the R say the same thing.
I know the struts are the same dimensions as the s3 because the bilstein b6 non dcc struts are the same part number between the R and S3 and regardless of which suspension option you have on the s3 the springs are the same. The s3 is much flatter in corners and less crashy over bumps. I feel like my R is always hitting the bump stops over really rough roads.
The weight between the two vehicles i believe is less than 50 lbs, negligible and in Europe the s3 hatch uses the same springs as the North American sedan but is within 25lbs of the R.
As for the eibachs they are definitely softer according to eibach themselves, 177 vs 195. Definitely a decrease in performance, they might feel stiffer but its probaly because your struts are being compressed and your riding closer to bump stops. Im convinced they are more for aesthetics than performance. Also dont want to ruin my struts with lowering springs.
 

Greg_mk7

Ready to race!
Location
Montreal
Car(s)
2017 golf R
Someone has and the S3 springs are shorter than the Golf R so it will lower it especially in the rear so you have to use TT spring pads and even with that the rear will sit slightly lower than the front.

Of course you can get the Emmanuelle Designs reverse rake pad. It's 10mm vs the 5 for the TT one afaik.

https://www.emdauto.com/products/em...-reverse-rake-adapter-pad?variant=23493457927

Of course this was on a wagon so might differ on a Golf R
The springs are shorter but stiffer. Thats why the ride heights are pretty much identical, the R springs compress more when mounted on.
 

Greg_mk7

Ready to race!
Location
Montreal
Car(s)
2017 golf R
W
Sounds like you're a suspension expert
Why would you say that? Are you insulted because i said the eibachs are softer than oem springs?
For the heights and fitments of the s3 springs ive done some research already, was just curious if anyone has installed s3 springs on the golf r before.
 

HuntR

Go Kart Newbie
Location
Seattle
From numbers pulled off these forums and personal experience the Eibach front springs are softer than OEM R springs and the rear Eibachs are firmer than OEM R springs. As you probably know the B6 are supposedly designed for the OEM springs/ride height. I currently have B6 DCC + Eibachs. The ride quality is pretty decent-definitely a sports car ride even in comfort mode. I mostly have it in Race mode, because I like to get feedback and know where the wheels are at all times. Sometimes I do think/wonder if it’s just a bit under-sprung in the front and too firm in the rear. No harm in throwing in the S3 springs if you feel the desire. Are you DCC?
 

Greg_mk7

Ready to race!
Location
Montreal
Car(s)
2017 golf R
From numbers pulled off these forums and personal experience the Eibach front springs are softer than OEM R springs and the rear Eibachs are firmer than OEM R springs. As you probably know the B6 are supposedly designed for the OEM springs/ride height. I currently have B6 DCC + Eibachs. The ride quality is pretty decent-definitely a sports car ride even in comfort mode. I mostly have it in Race mode, because I like to get feedback and know where the wheels are at all times. Sometimes I do think/wonder if it’s just a bit under-sprung in the front and too firm in the rear. No harm in throwing in the S3 springs if you feel the desire. Are you DCC?
Yes im dcc and its exactly how you describe, too soft in the front but the rear feels good.
 
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tmw2442

Autocross Newbie
Location
Approved NPC storage contanier
Car(s)
Mk7 R
Has anyone put Audi s3 springs on a golf r before?
Ive been searching for aftermarket springs that dont lower the car but are stiffer and they dont exist. Eibach pro kit which offers the least drop are softer than oem.
My brother has a 2018 s3 and I’ve measured the wheel gap between cars and they are almost identical, the rear is maybe a couple of mm lower. The s3 spring rates are much higher and there are alot for sale used that i can pick up for 100$.

S3 spring rate: 310 front 360rear
Golf r: 195 front 245 rear
Those are the RS3 rates, not the S3...would make the assumption (have not seen/found specific S3 rates) that the S3 front rate is near identical to the R and the rear is slightly stiffer rear. S3 is roughly 150 ish heavier overall than the R (3330 ish), most of which is on the rear axle and the RS3 (3650+) is another 150 lbs on top of the S3 (3450) , mostly on the front axle. But feel free to post if you have a source stating otherwise...

S3 rates would'nt be worth the time and/or money to install them. 034, neuspeed, RS3, (stockish height, minimal drop, but an actually increased rates) on the other hand could be depending what the motivation for modification is. I am sure stock shocks will work, but not ideal, if you are going through the pain of a spring swap. I would recommend people interested save themselves the ass pain or money of doing it twice and put in B6s( stock to 10mm lower) or B8s (15mm lower or more) depending on preference, better strut mounts, new bearings, etc.


Golf R fronts are 215, 190-ish is the gti front rate. According to APR, before their website became the new mess it currently is...but found the data page here. https://www.goapr.com/products/suspension/spring/parts/SUS00014

It's why the eibach's primarily suck as an option (170 ish front), and much better exist, IMO. People who have stated on the forum, they made the car "feel stiffer" and "handle better" on the eibach's, makes my eyebrows raise, and my BS filter trigger when the front is most highly riding the bump stops through corners and crashing into them into submission on normal road bumps.

Highly doubt eibach did any actual testing on Rs, or S3, as the part number is identical to the gti, beyond, yep the spring we designed for mqb GTIs fit, good enough, full send it, no R&D required, print $$$$$$$$$$$$. Feel free to correct if you find other information, eibach has good stuff, just generally their pro kit springs for VW/audi are highly questionable at best for the R, S3 variety. Probably great on a regular golf, marginal gti, and generally unsat on Rs...as real world forum wisdom seems to be indicating.

Depending on what the intent for the car is, imo, front and rear sways are a better first upgrade handling upgrade(combined with a zero toe rear alignment) on a stock R, before you throw springs at it. Unless wheel gap aesthetic, not improved handling performance is you're primary motivator for springs.
 
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Greg_mk7

Ready to race!
Location
Montreal
Car(s)
2017 golf R
Those are the RS3 rates, not the S3...would make the assumption (have not seen/found specific S3 rates) that the S3 front rate is near identical to the R and the rear is slightly stiffer rear. S3 is roughly 150 ish heavier overall than the R (3330 ish), most of which is on the rear axle and the RS3 (3650+) is another 150 lbs on top of the S3 (3450) , mostly on the front axle. But feel free to post if you have a source stating otherwise...

S3 rates would'nt be worth the time and/or money to install them. 034, neuspeed, RS3, (stockish height, minimal drop, but an actually increased rates) on the other hand could be depending what the motivation for modification is. I am sure stock shocks will work, but not ideal, if you are going through the pain of a spring swap. I would recommend people interested save themselves the ass pain or money of doing it twice and put in B6s( stock to 10mm lower) or B8s (15mm lower or more) depending on preference, better strut mounts, new bearings, etc.


Golf R fronts are 215, 190-ish is the gti front rate. According to APR, before their website became the new mess it currently is...but found the data page here. https://www.goapr.com/products/suspension/spring/parts/SUS00014

It's why the eibach's primarily suck as an option (170 ish front), and much better exist, IMO. People who have stated on the forum, they made the car "feel stiffer" and "handle better" on the eibach's, makes my eyebrows raise, and my BS filter trigger when the front is most highly riding the bump stops through corners and crashing into them into submission on normal road bumps.

Highly doubt eibach did any actual testing on Rs, or S3, as the part number is identical to the gti, beyond, yep the spring we designed for mqb GTIs fit, good enough, full send it, no R&D required, print $$$$$$$$$$$$. Feel free to correct if you find other information, eibach has good stuff, just generally their pro kit springs for VW/audi are highly questionable at best for the R, S3 variety. Probably great on a regular golf, marginal gti, and generally unsat on Rs...as real world forum wisdom seems to be indicating.

Depending on what the intent for the car is, imo, front and rear sways are a better first upgrade handling upgrade(combined with a zero toe rear alignment) on a stock R, before you throw springs at it. Unless wheel gap aesthetic, not improved handling performance is you're primary motivator for springs.
As for s3 springs they are the same as the R springs. Same part number and color code.
As for everything else I couldn’t agree with you more about the eibach’s.
Ive just installed a 24 mm rear sway bar today, cant say i notice a huge difference especially considering the pain in the ass it is to install.
Its the front of this car that I find to be soft.
 

tmw2442

Autocross Newbie
Location
Approved NPC storage contanier
Car(s)
Mk7 R
As for s3 springs they are the same as the R springs. Same part number and color code.
As for everything else I couldn’t agree with you more about the eibach’s.
Ive just installed a 24 mm rear sway bar today, cant say i notice a huge difference especially considering the pain in the ass it is to install.
Its the front of this car that I find to be soft.
Front and rear sways together on an R or any mqb chassis car, don't do just one, imo. The front makes more difference than people realize. Start with the front bar at full soft, and the rear at medium, go tune to your liking/feel from there. Most also don't understand or think about how much difference a zero rear toe alignment makes either. Highly recommend at least removing 1/2 of the stock rear amount of toe IN (for a daily) to zero if you have some track/autocross experience. Assume the sway you installed is adjustable. I usually don't buy sways, or springs that the manufacturer(s) that doesn't share rates; if they pretend like its some kind of special sauce, I assume they aren't any significant upgrade from stock, and are aware to if they shared that fact, their product wouldn't sell.
 
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ZERO815

Autocross Champion
Location
Köln Germany
Car(s)
2017 GTI SE DSG
It's why the eibach's primarily suck as an option (170 ish front), and much better exist, IMO. People who have stated on the forum, they made the car "feel stiffer" and "handle better" on the eibach's, makes my eyebrows raise, and my BS filter trigger when the front is most highly riding the bump stops through corners and crashing into them into submission on normal road bumps.
"Despite improved anti-roll bar systems (mainly due to strut-mounted links), ARBs can never do much more than, say, halve the roll without badly affecting ride comfort, unless actively controlled (as is the case with some BMW and Range Rover models). Ultimately, bump stops and spring aids are among the most influential components in limiting body lean, ... . One of the most important considerations during suspension setup and design is optimizing the ‘contact point’ relative to wheel position (taking into account suspension velocity ratios)." From: insights-into-bump-stop-tuning.html

I have tested 3 linear sets of Eibach springs in my GTI next to the factory springs. All tests were done w/ B8 shocks.
1690471436564.png

Eyebows up please, w/o looking at spring rates each Eibach variant felt more planted with less roll than the factory springs. The GTI pro-kit felt the stiffest from all, it was riding the bump stops the most. For my liking the front was too low w/ the GTI kit. With the stiffer front spring of the GTD kit the car came up by 8mm, steering woke up, and got more complaint w/ no crashing. However the pitch balance was off, and the rear axle felt a lot weaker than the front. Since I prefer a supportive rear axle I went w/ the R kit. The rear came up by 9mm (not ideal from the looks) but now the pitch balance is spot on, there's enough support from the rear end, and has better protection for loaded situations. I don't avoid road imperfections any more. With all 3 sets I have played w/ different bump stops and bump stop lenghts (best results table).

It's surprising how big of an effect you can have w/ a small change of the contact point. I actually suggest to start there with suspension tuning. Clip e.g. a 10mm spacer between shock end and bump stop to the piston rod, and experience the difference in roll and handling. There shouldn't be too much of an effect in crashing. Then add 10mm more...

Highly doubt eibach did any actual testing on Rs, or S3, as the part number is identical to the gti, beyond, yep the spring we designed for mqb GTIs fit, good enough, full send it, no R&D required, print $$$$$$$$$$$$. Feel free to correct if you find other information

At least over here in Germany Eibach takes their time to test their parts, and get them TÜV approved. It's a quite involved process to get all variants TÜV approved as an aftermarket company. Please check the attached pdf. According to the TÜV you have to select the minimum springs for your max axle payload in your car out of the attached pdf. However you can chose springs for higher pay loads as well. So running R springs in a GTI is okay, but you can't use GTI springs in a R.
 

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Greg_mk7

Ready to race!
Location
Montreal
Car(s)
2017 golf R
Front and rear sways together on an R or any mqb chassis car, don't do just one, imo. The front makes more difference than people realize. Start with the front bar at full soft, and the rear at medium, go tune to your liking/feel from there. Most also don't understand or think about how much difference a zero rear toe alignment makes either. Highly recommend at least removing 1/2 of the stock rear amount of toe IN (for a daily) to zero if you have some track/autocross experience. Assume the sway you installed is adjustable. I usually don't buy sways, or springs that the manufacturer(s) that doesn't share rates; if they pretend like its some kind of special sauce, I assume they aren't any significant upgrade from stock, and are aware to if they shared that fact, their product wouldn't sell.
Everyone suggested the rear sway bar and that its one of the best mods for the car….. I honestly dont notice much of a difference. I installed a 24mm whiteline rsb and it was definitely heavier and thicker than the stock one. However the oem looked pretty thick to begin with when i took it out. Must be a reason they use it on the rs3 and dont go thicker.
I feel like I wasted 300$+ and 5 hours of my time to be honest.
I dont want to drop the front subframe to install a thicker FSB. Ive changed all the struts in my car and it was way easier and less time consuming than that sway bar. People that live in the northeast or rust belt should be aware that the sway bar bushing bolts will probably break and get stuck in the subframe which is what happened to me.
 
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