Ask Me Anything: Lug Nut, Bolts and Wheel Locks!

[Neil555]

On a 2019 Golf R, if aiming to get the wheel/tires more flush with fenders while retaining OEM 235/35/19 tires, is it wise to consider spacers (flush kit, say 15mm, 10mm option) vs fitting a new wheel with a better offset and what would that offset be? Pros and cons of each option?

 

[flipflp]

On a 2019 Golf R, if aiming to get the wheel/tires more flush with fenders while retaining OEM 235/35/19 tires, is it wise to consider spacers (flush kit, say 15mm, 10mm option) vs fitting a new wheel with a better offset and what would that offset be? Pros and cons of each option?

That's a real big question with 2 very different budgets.

I personally ran a flush kit from when the car was new until I got my first set of wheels. Great bang for your buck mod. It's pretty easy to sell a flush kit, so you're not wasting that cash if you're not sure what wheel you want right off the bat. I have no issues with running spacers and longer bolts, but some people don't think it's safe or they've had issues with vibrations from spacers. Just things to consider there.

If you're going to be buying wheels, then you'd get a wheel that doesn't need spacers just to keep it simple. What that wheel is for you to be flush depends on what you call flush and how low your car is if it's lowered at all. That's a question with answers somewhere in the hundreds of threads in this sub-forum on wheels/flush fits, etc.

 

[Neil555]

Thanks flipflp!
Would you consider 70mm wheel studs regardless of wheel selection?
Agree with you if looking for a wheel, go with a lower offset say 42-45 but that personal preference.
Right now just trying to get my Pretorias flush, but not too flush

 

[flipflp]

Thanks flipflp!
Would you consider 70mm wheel studs regardless of wheel selection?
Agree with you if looking for a wheel, go with a lower offset say 42-45 but that personal preference.
Right now just trying to get my Pretorias flush, but not too flush

If you're sticking with one of the 17.5/15mm and 10mm flush kits, the ECS 70mm stud kits are what they recommend and what I used as well. I wouldn't go with anything shorter if you're doing 15mm+ spacers.

 

[Jimdog]

are wheel seat inserts fairly standard? and where would i get them? i bought some honda civic wheels and they appear to have pressed in inserts. if i can get some replacement inserts and convert to conical seats then i wont have to run wobble nuts and r12 ball seat washers. I'm fine with the wobble nuts but the extra washers are a hassle to deal with. also, are there any 12x1.5 lug nuts with the stock r13 ball seat? all i can find are r12.

 

[flipflp]

are wheel seat inserts fairly standard? and where would i get them? i bought some honda civic wheels and they appear to have pressed in inserts. if i can get some replacement inserts and convert to conical seats then i wont have to run wobble nuts and r12 ball seat washers. I'm fine with the wobble nuts but the extra washers are a hassle to deal with. also, are there any 12x1.5 lug nuts with the stock r13 ball seat? all i can find are r12.

I am so confused with what you are trying to do here.

 

[MiamiBourne]

That's where I noticed the studs being a bit off, when fitting my 10+mm spacers.

ECS sources those studs from the same place as Motorsport Hardware I'm sure. There aren't tons of stud conversion manufacturers for that grade/cost of stud sadly.

Rennline used to be my go to but they lost their source or something to that degree. They were a quality bullet nose stud, a bit harder to install but very well made.

On another note. I've been reading a lot about LocTite with stud conversions and it seems there are various opinions with using blue, red or none at all. Since I wasn't crazy about the ECS quality of the studs I certainly didn't want to use red LocTite. Reading through Rennline's install notes I see that they don't recommend any (just a higher torque spec of 30 ft/lbs) and if you did want to use a thread locker then to use red as the blue stuff after a certain temp will break down and act more like a lubricant...something to that effect.

That said I did used blue thread locker and now I'm a little paranoid about the studs coming loose. If they come loose will I only notice when I remove the lug nuts? Meaning, as long as the lug nuts are torqued to OEM spec then I shouldn't have my wheels flying off due to the studs loosening from the hub? Lol

Rennline's stud conversion DIY for anyone interested:

https://www.rennline.com/PDF/LS06_install.pdf

 

[jimlloyd40]

I am so confused with what you are trying to do here.

And you're the expert. I was lost a long time ago.

 

[Jimdog]

I am so confused with what you are trying to do here.

OK. The full story here is that i got a 12mm stud conversion. I'm having a hard time finding 12mm lug nuts with the stock r13 ball seat for the stock wheels. I am currently using washers from urotuning (part no. 70905 ) to get the 60 degree cone seat lug nuts to work with my stock wheels that use ball seats. it's a hassle trying to get the washers to seat correctly and i have to retorque 3-4 times before they stay tight.

The other question that i have is regarding the new wheels that i got which are meant for a Honda. the bolt pattern is 114.3 instead of 112. I already have hubcentric rings. and i know i will need wobble nuts. the question is regarding the type of seat for the lug nuts. From my research, Honda uses an r12 ball seat. which means i would have to get another set of adapter washers, which i will do if i have to. BUT these wheels have seats that are clearly a steel insert that is pressed in. if the inserts are pretty standard then i can buy new inserts somewhere and convert these wheels to a cone seat and avoid having to use washers to work with the ball seat. is there a supplier where i can buy new inserts with conical seats?

 

[chubot]

On another note. I've been reading a lot about LocTite with stud conversions and it seems there are various opinions with using blue, red or none at all. Since I wasn't crazy about the ECS quality of the studs I certainly didn't want to use red LocTite. Reading through Rennline's install notes I see that they don't recommend any (just a higher torque spec of 30 ft/lbs) and if you did want to use a thread locker then to use red as the blue stuff after a certain temp will break down and act more like a lubricant...something to that effect.

That said I did used blue thread locker and now I'm a little paranoid about the studs coming loose. If they come loose will I only notice when I remove the lug nuts? Meaning, as long as the lug nuts are torqued to OEM spec then I shouldn't have my wheels flying off due to the studs loosening from the hub? Lol

Rennline's stud conversion DIY for anyone interested:

https://www.rennline.com/PDF/LS06_install.pdf

Rennline in another forum had posted that if you where going to use Loctite that they recommended type 2422, blue-high temp. That's what I got, little harder to find, and a little pricey.

 

[MiamiBourne]

Rennline in another forum had posted that if you where going to use Loctite that they recommended type 2422, blue-high temp. That's what I got, little harder to find, and a little pricey.

Thanks, yeah I see on Amazon it's $36.24! At least it's prime w/one day shipping but...still. Lol

 

[flipflp]

On another note. I've been reading a lot about LocTite with stud conversions and it seems there are various opinions with using blue, red or none at all. Since I wasn't crazy about the ECS quality of the studs I certainly didn't want to use red LocTite. Reading through Rennline's install notes I see that they don't recommend any (just a higher torque spec of 30 ft/lbs) and if you did want to use a thread locker then to use red as the blue stuff after a certain temp will break down and act more like a lubricant...something to that effect.

That said I did used blue thread locker and now I'm a little paranoid about the studs coming loose. If they come loose will I only notice when I remove the lug nuts? Meaning, as long as the lug nuts are torqued to OEM spec then I shouldn't have my wheels flying off due to the studs loosening from the hub? Lol

Rennline's stud conversion DIY for anyone interested:

https://www.rennline.com/PDF/LS06_install.pdf

I didn't use any thread locker on my Rennlines like they recommended and I had a few that would regularly loosen when removing the lugs. No big deal, except because the studs had no hex end it was a bit more of a chore to get them tightened back down. Never had any issues with them coming loose because the tension on the threads once torqued is enough to keep everything in place.

I used red on my ECS studs. None came loose, but more than a few just refused to come off. I probably need to invest in a real blow torch when I go to remove my rear studs, but I broke every little allen tool I had on my front wheels.

Blue high temp might be the answer, but regular blue I can't imagine doing a lot.

 

[SonicBloom]

I used red loctite on my USP studs. I asked a shop to try and remove them (because I have a weird issue with them that I might have mentioned in a previous post) and they said I would need to replace the hubs if I went through with it. Wish I knew about that high temp blue loctite!

 

[MiamiBourne]

I didn't use any thread locker on my Rennlines like they recommended and I had a few that would regularly loosen when removing the lugs. No big deal, except because the studs had no hex end it was a bit more of a chore to get them tightened back down. Never had any issues with them coming loose because the tension on the threads once torqued is enough to keep everything in place.

I used red on my ECS studs. None came loose, but more than a few just refused to come off. I probably need to invest in a real blow torch when I go to remove my rear studs, but I broke every little allen tool I had on my front wheels.

Blue high temp might be the answer, but regular blue I can't imagine doing a lot.

Awesome, thanks. You have eased my paranoia of the bolts coming loose when driving. I'll see how the studs hold when doing wheel swaps but my mountain drives and WITW coming up in April...I guess I see these studs exceeding the blue threadlock temp limitations soon.

 

[flipflp]

OK. The full story here is that i got a 12mm stud conversion. I'm having a hard time finding 12mm lug nuts with the stock r13 ball seat for the stock wheels. I am currently using washers from urotuning (part no. 70905 ) to get the 60 degree cone seat lug nuts to work with my stock wheels that use ball seats. it's a hassle trying to get the washers to seat correctly and i have to retorque 3-4 times before they stay tight.

The other question that i have is regarding the new wheels that i got which are meant for a Honda. the bolt pattern is 114.3 instead of 112. I already have hubcentric rings. and i know i will need wobble nuts. the question is regarding the type of seat for the lug nuts. From my research, Honda uses an r12 ball seat. which means i would have to get another set of adapter washers, which i will do if i have to. BUT these wheels have seats that are clearly a steel insert that is pressed in. if the inserts are pretty standard then i can buy new inserts somewhere and convert these wheels to a cone seat and avoid having to use washers to work with the ball seat. is there a supplier where i can buy new inserts with conical seats?

That is a real mess you've created.

I would never recommend a 12mm stud conversion. You've just lost strength on the part of your vehicle that holds the wheels on. Just because they exist doesn't mean it's a good idea, and I'd bet that company would tell you there is no warranty and the parts are intended for show use only.

I can't think of a reason an R13 ball seat 12mm x 1.50 thread lug nut would exist, since even 12mm x 1.50 thread size Mercedes lug bolts are all R12. Any 12mm Honda lug nut is an R12 ball seat, and the 14mm thread lugs are R14. R13 is pretty unique to VW/Audi.

For your wheel questions, best I can do is recommend a wheel refinisher to see what they can do for you. I don't know anything about modern alloy wheels having steel inserts (that doesn't seem to make sense, that hasn't been done in a long time) or replacing/installing those inserts. They may even be able to redrill the bolt pattern at the same time.

You must really want to install those Honda wheels on your VW, because you're going to have a ton of effort invested to make this work semi-safely.