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Ask Me Anything: Lug Nut, Bolts and Wheel Locks!

odessa.filez

Autocross Newbie
Location
Roswell, GA
Car(s)
2016 GSW 1.8tsi auto
If you don't want to do a stud conversion, one of these makes wheel changes easier. Might be too slow a process for the track, though, I wouldn't know. It's great for winter wheel swaps.
I have spacers from that company I'm real impressed with their quality.

I also have the Audi wheel hanger and the Precision European wheel hanger (sold by Amazon for around $7). I highly recommend the Audi, hesitate to recommend the Precision European. Threading is not as smooth.
 

flipflp

Autocross Newbie
Location
PNW
Car(s)
'16 Golf R DSG
Very cool man, thanks for doing this ama, its super unique to this fourm and cool


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I'm glad it's appreciated! Gives me something to do while I'm doing the exact same thing at work :p
 

flipflp

Autocross Newbie
Location
PNW
Car(s)
'16 Golf R DSG
I have spacers from that company I'm real impressed with their quality.

I also have the Audi wheel hanger and the Precision European wheel hanger (sold by Amazon for around $7). I highly recommend the Audi, hesitate to recommend the Precision European. Threading is not as smooth.

Just as long as no one uses that plastic junk that I think is in every OEM tool kit, they're better off haha.
 

Raguvian

Autocross Champion
Location
Bay Area, CA
Car(s)
2019 GSW 4MO 6MT
Do stud conversion studs ever have to be replaced? On my friend's BMW he said he'd have to change the studs once in a while. The fact that they just screw in and aren't pressed in from the back of the hub like a traditional car and just rely on red Loctite is a little scary to me, but I'd much rather just get extended studs and open ended lug nuts and call it a day than have to worry about bolt length.

Are the stud conversion as easy as removing the wheel and rotor, screwing the studs in and putting the rotor back on?
 

flipflp

Autocross Newbie
Location
PNW
Car(s)
'16 Golf R DSG
Do stud conversion studs ever have to be replaced? On my friend's BMW he said he'd have to change the studs once in a while. The fact that they just screw in and aren't pressed in from the back of the hub like a traditional car and just rely on red Loctite is a little scary to me, but I'd much rather just get extended studs and open ended lug nuts and call it a day than have to worry about bolt length.

Are the stud conversion as easy as removing the wheel and rotor, screwing the studs in and putting the rotor back on?

Studs can be damaged or wear out, just like press in studs. Especially if you're swapping wheels on a track constantly they should be considered a wear item, just like lug nuts. If they don't thread clean and smooth, replace 'em.

I've never had a stud even back out on me, if they are installed correctly the torque of the lug on the wheel keeps them in the hub while you're moving and the loctite keeps them secure while you remove lugs. Even if you don't use loctite the worst thing that can happen is a stud will back out while you're removing a wheel and you have to rethread it and snug it down again.

No need to remove the rotor to install studs though, just the wheel. Clean the hub threads with a little brush, install studs to recommended spec (usually only about 15-20 ft lbs, more than hand tight but not torqued like a lug/bolt), install wheel as normal. If you ever need to remove a stud and the loctite really did it's job you'd probably want to remove the rotor to apply heat, but otherwise the rotor stays put.
 

Raguvian

Autocross Champion
Location
Bay Area, CA
Car(s)
2019 GSW 4MO 6MT
Studs can be damaged or wear out, just like press in studs. Especially if you're swapping wheels on a track constantly they should be considered a wear item, just like lug nuts. If they don't thread clean and smooth, replace 'em.

I've never had a stud even back out on me, if they are installed correctly the torque of the lug on the wheel keeps them in the hub while you're moving and the loctite keeps them secure while you remove lugs. Even if you don't use loctite the worst thing that can happen is a stud will back out while you're removing a wheel and you have to rethread it and snug it down again.

No need to remove the rotor to install studs though, just the wheel. Clean the hub threads with a little brush, install studs to recommended spec (usually only about 15-20 ft lbs, more than hand tight but not torqued like a lug/bolt), install wheel as normal. If you ever need to remove a stud and the loctite really did it's job you'd probably want to remove the rotor to apply heat, but otherwise the rotor stays put.

Thanks for the info! Dumb question though, if the studs are only torqued to 15-20 ft lb, how do they not spin off when you loose the lug nuts?
 

flipflp

Autocross Newbie
Location
PNW
Car(s)
'16 Golf R DSG
Thanks for the info! Dumb question though, if the studs are only torqued to 15-20 ft lb, how do they not spin off when you loose the lug nuts?

Red loctite, or they do loosen potentially. Tension keeps everything in place when everything is torqued down though.

On my Rennline studs I did not use loctite initially and on a brake service I checked the studs and enough were not "bottomed out" against the threads that I applied loctite at that point. You're really torqueing the stud either against the end of the threads or at a middle threadless portion of the stud so it's not very permanent.

Unless your lugs are galled up or damaged/cross-threaded you're only removing the lug when you loosen them up. The removal torque breaks tension on the lug nut seat and threads to a lesser degree, and shouldn't be translated to the stud.
 

Raguvian

Autocross Champion
Location
Bay Area, CA
Car(s)
2019 GSW 4MO 6MT
Red loctite, or they do loosen potentially. Tension keeps everything in place when everything is torqued down though.

On my Rennline studs I did not use loctite initially and on a brake service I checked the studs and enough were not "bottomed out" against the threads that I applied loctite at that point. You're really torqueing the stud either against the end of the threads or at a middle threadless portion of the stud so it's not very permanent.

Unless your lugs are galled up or damaged/cross-threaded you're only removing the lug when you loosen them up. The removal torque breaks tension on the lug nut seat and threads to a lesser degree, and shouldn't be translated to the stud.

Thanks! I will get the stud conversion and just check the studs every time I have the wheels off.
 
My wheels are on and off the car almost weekly. On other makes of cars I've used ARP studs and replace lug nuts yearly. I find lug nuts wear out faster and will damage the studs when they wear. The 3 most common ways studs are damaged is over torquing the lugs, using damaged lugs, or cross threading.

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mk7_bk

Autocross Champion
So are there any good reference material that you may have (im assuming its all knowledge in your head) but say, a word doc with all the different things (stud conversion, lug nuts, ball seat/ conical, hubcentric rings, wheel locks) pros and cons, dos and donts

I think there are tons of great post/threads here, but some of them need a sort of TLDR in the FP or post under it. Some people might say oh just search it up, but its hard to search if you don't know it even exist or is a thing

Also I know that is a generic and somewhat vague question, so if there is no straight answer its cool. But as someone who has oem wheels ect, I only find the knowledge on here from what other people say since I have very little experience


Edit: so im researching stud conversion now, never heard of it, and you have to get a kit to convert if your using spacers, but only for wheels that use studs since some use just lugs i.e. the oem wheel has no studs

Is the only reason to use this so the wheel sits on way easier? like you just put it on and then the nuts and boom its done verse always putting in the lugs
 

flipflp

Autocross Newbie
Location
PNW
Car(s)
'16 Golf R DSG
So are there any good reference material that you may have (im assuming its all knowledge in your head) but say, a word doc with all the different things (stud conversion, lug nuts, ball seat/ conical, hubcentric rings, wheel locks) pros and cons, dos and donts

I think there are tons of great post/threads here, but some of them need a sort of TLDR in the FP or post under it. Some people might say oh just search it up, but its hard to search if you don't know it even exist or is a thing

Also I know that is a generic and somewhat vague question, so if there is no straight answer its cool. But as someone who has oem wheels ect, I only find the knowledge on here from what other people say since I have very little experience


Edit: so im researching stud conversion now, never heard of it, and you have to get a kit to convert if your using spacers, but only for wheels that use studs since some use just lugs i.e. the oem wheel has no studs

Is the only reason to use this so the wheel sits on way easier? like you just put it on and then the nuts and boom its done verse always putting in the lugs

There are a lot of good posts on Discount Tire's site, Tire Rack's as well:

Discount/America's Tire Tips:
https://www.americastire.com/learn

https://www.americastire.com/learn/hub-centric-vs-lug-centric
https://www.americastire.com/learn/hub-rings

https://www.americastire.com/learn/lug-nuts

Tire Rack Tech Tips
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/tiretech.jsp?tab=All

Lug Nuts
https://www.tirerack.com/wheels/tech/techpage.jsp?techid=102

Torqueing
https://www.tirerack.com/wheels/tech/techpage.jsp?techid=107

Centerbore (hub centric info)
https://www.tirerack.com/wheels/tech/techpage.jsp?techid=91


A lot of things specific to VWs/this forum should probably be put into one post or a doc, you're right. If I have some time I might try compiling a greatest hits and host it.

I know I posted something once but I can't find it now (Found it: https://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showpost.php?p=794119&postcount=34), stud conversions are a bit complicated unless you're familiar with all the related components.

Their Pros:
Place to hang the wheel while mounting
Ability to use spacers without needing longer bolts (I can swap between 3, 5, 10mm+ spacers now with no changes, for example)
Less wear on the hub, so if you swap wheels constantly less chance of damage to threads on a $200 hub
Studs are cheap to replace if they are damaged, same with lug nuts

Cons:
Complicated, at least to make sure you're getting all matching parts
Lug nuts to match wheels designed for ball seat lug bolts are not extremely common, but most stud conversion retailers/manufacturers have a small selection to offer.

I would say not necessary for most people, unless you know why you want to convert. If you've got factory wheels, no spacers, and only rotate your tires a few times a year, it's not going to change your life. If you've got a few sets aftermarket wheels, swap during track days, want to run funky lug nuts for style reasons, play around with spacers, etc. then you should definitely consider one.
 
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Raguvian

Autocross Champion
Location
Bay Area, CA
Car(s)
2019 GSW 4MO 6MT
Sorry for all the questions, but any thoughts on ball seat washers vs actual ball seat lug nuts? If I do a stud conversion I'd still want to use my stock wheels for winter tires and urotuning sells some ball seat washers for $15, compared to spending another $50+ on a full set of lug nuts.
 

flipflp

Autocross Newbie
Location
PNW
Car(s)
'16 Golf R DSG
Sorry for all the questions, but any thoughts on ball seat washers vs actual ball seat lug nuts? If I do a stud conversion I'd still want to use my stock wheels for winter tires and urotuning sells some ball seat washers for $15, compared to spending another $50+ on a full set of lug nuts.

Very mixed feelings on ball seat washers. I've had this question asked a bunch of times but my simple answer is avoid them. Most vendors don't list the ball seat radius, so if it's not R13 like your OEM wheels then you might not have good contact. A user on here was having issues with lugs loosening with ball seat washers and would bet that is a factor for him. They can be lost, they can break, a shop will forget to install them or lose a few. Just another bunch of added variables you should avoid.

They do make correct spec'd washers out of Ti though, you'll pay for them though: https://www.ti64.com/product-p/465.htm
 

Raguvian

Autocross Champion
Location
Bay Area, CA
Car(s)
2019 GSW 4MO 6MT
Very mixed feelings on ball seat washers. I've had this question asked a bunch of times but my simple answer is avoid them. Most vendors don't list the ball seat radius, so if it's not R13 like your OEM wheels then you might not have good contact. A user on here was having issues with lugs loosening with ball seat washers and would bet that is a factor for him. They can be lost, they can break, a shop will forget to install them or lose a few. Just another bunch of added variables you should avoid.

They do make correct spec'd washers out of Ti though, you'll pay for them though: https://www.ti64.com/product-p/465.htm

I will double check with Urotuning to see if they know the spec, but it says it's for OEM wheels so I'm hoping that means VW spec.

I don't let shops touch my car so hopefully no issues with them losing my stuff (except for the dealer for warranty work).
 
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