APR Stage 3 TCU

[Hoon]

In case anyone is wondering, 500wtq is the limit of what APR stage 3 TCU will hold on a DQ250.

Had clutch slip, tore the trans down, clutches look new. No glaze on the frictions and no heat on the steels.

It was just a lack of hydraulic pressure, not a hardware issue.

Dodson's going in now, undecided if I'll switch to TVS. Dodson claims 10% more clamping force with the same hydraulic load and I just want it to hold 500wtq reliably, I have no desire to put the sauce to it in the midrange and start popping clutch baskets.

 

[Diggs24]

Damn. Lotta work just to find that out. I’d be upgrading too just to make it worth my while.

 

[daconchslop]

Good to see you still plugging ahead, Hoon.

 

[aaronc7]

What did the APR tcu tune max out at in terms of clutch pressure?

Did you try 'tricking' the TCU by altering the torque vs airmass relationship--thus sending a higher torque reading to the TCU? (as a way to potentially get greater clamp pressure/force)

 

[Hoon]

What did the APR tcu tune max out at in terms of clutch pressure?

Did you try 'tricking' the TCU by altering the torque vs airmass relationship--thus sending a higher torque reading to the TCU? (as a way to potentially get greater clamp pressure/force)

I only logged it once, and it peaked at low 17.x Bar.

I didn't manipulate the ECU to inflate the TQ reading. I thought about it, but we tried this when i was IS38 with the Uni TCU tune, and it was not effective.

 

[aaronc7]

Cool, just curious. From what I remember the boss files do not maintain a realistic torque vs airmass relationship at all and just really jacks the airmass values up.

 

[2slowvw]

Hoon always pushing this platform to the edge. Thanks for the PSA

 

[arob157]

I wonder if the clamping will almost be too much with the new clutches. The coefficient of friction should be high enough that you would borderline need less clamping pressure. But maybe not at full load I suppose.

Either way, great data point. I would most definitely do DSG clutches on a built block setup.

Makes me wonder if pushing past 17.x Bar would cause issues.with parts in the mechatronics unit as well.

 

[Diggs24]

What kind of magic sauce was Aul running then? That thing had to have been well over 500.

 

[arob157]

What kind of magic sauce was Aul running then? That thing had to have been well over 500.

Well he sure wasn't on an APR Stage 3 OTS ECU tune, so I highly doubt he was on a OTS TCU tune either.

 

[Hoon]

I was installing the clutch packs tonight so i actually started looking at things...the drive plate has 20 teeth that have been sheared off and are somewhere in the transmission (or have been turned to glitter). I missed it initially because it was all broken symmetrically. There is an inner set of teeth and a longer set, my longer set are gone completely, every one of them. The inner set were on borrowed time i'm sure. This had nothing to do with the clutch slip, just found the damage when addressing that issue.

I've been talking to a few guys making more power than me...one has broken 3 drive plates in like 6 months (the damage from the 3rd one destroyed the whole trans), and another car i know of has broken 9 of them, IDK how many transmissions have gone into that one. For some reason the GTIs seem to break these parts sooner than the Rs.

Only upgrade that would solve this comes out to $5730 shipped for the billet setup...or turn the car down...which is against my religion.

I can build a 2000hp capable GM trans for less than a clutch assembly to hold 550wtq reliably in this car. First the engine, then the clutch issue, then the discovery that the trans had a major reliability issue immediately after the built motor went in (was a year ago but i really haven't driven the car much)...FML

As far as i'm concerned i'm beyond the practical limit for what will remain reliable with my usage. Everything is going to become a consumable if i keep making this much power in this platform and driving it the way i enjoy.

Doesn't make much sense to continue with the car. I have very little interest in it, and i've been wanting to build a street car that needs a parachute for awhile now.

 

[jimlloyd40]

I was installing the clutch packs tonight so i actually started looking at things...the drive plate has 20 teeth that have been sheared off and are somewhere in the transmission (or have been turned to glitter). I missed it initially because it was all broken symmetrically. There is an inner set of teeth and a longer set, my longer set are gone completely, every one of them. The inner set were on borrowed time i'm sure. This had nothing to do with the clutch slip, just found the damage when addressing that issue.

I've been talking to a few guys making more power than me...one has broken 3 drive plates in like 6 months (the damage from the 3rd one destroyed the whole trans), and another car i know of has broken 9 of them, IDK how many transmissions have gone into that one. For some reason the GTIs seem to break these parts sooner than the Rs.

Only upgrade that would solve this comes out to $5730 shipped for the billet setup...or turn the car down...which is against my religion.

I can build a 2000hp capable GM trans for less than a clutch assembly to hold 550wtq reliably in this car. First the engine, then the clutch issue, then the discovery that the trans had a major reliability issue immediately after the built motor went in (was a year ago but i really haven't driven the car much)...FML

As far as i'm concerned i'm beyond the practical limit for what will remain reliable with my usage. Everything is going to become a consumable if i keep making this much power in this platform and driving it the way i enjoy.

Doesn't make much sense to continue with the car. I have very little interest in it, and i've been wanting to build a street car that needs a parachute for awhile now.

It is what it is you've made a good decision to move on.

 

[jimlloyd40]

@Hoon I admire what you did and the immense amount of work, effort and money you've put into it. You have definitely exposed all the weaknesses of the powertrain.

 

[railroader]

Eventually we all get to this point, your smarter than me, I will continue to throw money into my s3 pit, Eventually I'll do a dq500 and daza swap, way down the road, as you know I have my hotrod I have to tear down and go through still also, if you move on it has been an adventure with you and I'm sure we will still have the v8 adventure as I tear down the blown bbc in the 31. Thanks for the help when I have needed another brain. As you know I got the hptuner for the dsg custom tuning, with the help of another member helping me with hpt we read my tcu and he converted it and it is virtually identical to eurodyne. I'll be talking to you soon lol

 

[AceHammer]

I feel like at this point anyone wanting to go over 600 HP power on a golf the best bet is to look for a wrecked RS3 or TTRS and swap the motor and trans over.

I've seen a couple of RS3s go for around 20k on Copart. You can definitely recoup some of that too if you part out the rest of it.