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APR Stage 1 or Stage 2?

Is the APR Stage 2 tune worth it or is Stage 1 enough


  • Total voters
    19

CarlosCanizares

Drag Racing Champion
Location
Surrey, BC, Canada
Car(s)
Mk7 Golf R
Cobb and an EQT tune is the way to go, OP.

Unless you're like me who has already decided the upcoming mods to the R will be its last, a canned tune can work too. That said, I'm local to HPA and can always pay for a real dyno tune, if I somehow thought I needed it.
 

reallypeacedoff

Ready to race!
Location
Los Angeles
Sorry, but there is A LOT of bad information here. The only thing that is actually accurate is that Stage 1 is a big jump from stock.
How so? Let's hear your rebuttal.

Run a DP with no software, car will lean out. Overheating the components is a lot worse than running rich.

Stage II jump is a significantly less of a jump than a Stage I from stock. You can run an IC in either Stage. The ECU is smart enough to see the change in air. It isn't smart enough when it comes to the DP, thus Stage II software.

Don't bother with Stage 2. If you get an itch, upgrade to an IS38 turbo and run a DP file for it. </end thread>
Sorry, but there is A LOT of bad information here. R uses an IS38 turbo. </end thread> haha /s

I've heard much better things about APR stage 1 compared to Cobb Stage 1. Cobb Stage 2 is only $699 so in a year or two I won't mind spending the money. Plus the APR tune is being professionally done on a dyno, which for me is worth the experience.
COBB Acessport is rubbish on the R. On a 2005 STi, go for it. Been on this forum, and more so Vortex, for 6 years and many people running COBB get misfire codes plus other problems. COBB never helps out. Many have switched to another tuner. Search the Vortex site. I have had APR for 4 years and only had one problem which they were nice enough to figure out and help. Couldn't say that for COBB. They'll just blame your tuner. Also, you seem like you are looking for value for money, going the custom dyno tune will not be cheap, less so than a OTS map.

Didn't catch that you had an R. Get a good tune from a Cobb tuner. When you get the itch pay for an ethanol tune. </thread again?> haha

APR won't do you wrong either, but you have more options with Cobb. The Accessport device itself is great!
I mean, he IS in the R forum, shouldn't you be in the Alltrack forum?
 

ZuMBLe

Autocross Newbie
Location
NY
Car(s)
Alltrack 6MT
How so? Let's hear your rebuttal.

Run a DP with no software, car will lean out. Overheating the components is a lot worse than running rich.

Stage II jump is a significantly less of a jump than a Stage I from stock. You can run an IC in either Stage. The ECU is smart enough to see the change in air. It isn't smart enough when it comes to the DP, thus Stage II software.


Sorry, but there is A LOT of bad information here. R uses an IS38 turbo. </end thread> haha /s


COBB Acessport is rubbish on the R. On a 2005 STi, go for it. Been on this forum, and more so Vortex, for 6 years and many people running COBB get misfire codes plus other problems. COBB never helps out. Many have switched to another tuner. Search the Vortex site. I have had APR for 4 years and only had one problem which they were nice enough to figure out and help. Couldn't say that for COBB. They'll just blame your tuner. Also, you seem like you are looking for value for money, going the custom dyno tune will not be cheap, less so than a OTS map.



I mean, he IS in the R forum, shouldn't you be in the Alltrack forum?
Not worth my time. Your insisting the car will lean out with a DP shows you have no idea about tuning this platform and your attitude shows you have no desire to learn. Again not worth my time.

Yeah, it's an R forum. I own an Alltrack. I 100% know more about tuning this platform than you do though. Sorry, get off your high horse. What does my owning an alltrack have to do with anything? Does it make you better than me somehow? I can make as much power as a R, can you put as much stuff as I can in my alltrack? Idiot.
 
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reallypeacedoff

Ready to race!
Location
Los Angeles
As I said

Stage 1 wakes the R the fck up very nicely!
Stage 2 wakes the R the fck up a tad MORE nicely!
See bold. You need to add the IC and CAI to get the HO Stage II and if you track or repeatedly stomp on it, that's where you will feel the difference in that the car stays at a good operating temp with those add-ons. My Stage II never hits over 235 on repeated stomps around Malibu. When I was Stage I, I would get 285+ regularly.

What I'm saying here is that both a stage 1 or a stage 2 tune will give your R serious added oomph--the stage 2 just gives you even more, especially on the top-end where the increased exhaust flow provides added benefits.

PS: Downpipe = Stage 2, as Reallypeacedoff already said.
As Al said, Stage I is such a huge jump, you will have a massive grin on your face. It should have come like this from factory. And it's just a tune.

But as I said, you'll realize that the initial spool is slow and the top end dies quick. Stage II however, changes this, it pulls hard about 750 RPM below Stage II and this is where you notice the difference, it pulls harder at the top end, by a lot. You have close to 5000 RPM of huge power.
 

reallypeacedoff

Ready to race!
Location
Los Angeles
Not worth my time. Your insisting the car will lean out with a DP shows you have no idea about tuning this platform and your attitude shows you have no desire to learn. Again not worth my time.

Yeah, it's an R forum. I own an Alltrack. I 100% know more about tuning this platform than you do though. Sorry, get off your high horse. What does my owning an alltrack have to do with anything? Does it make you better than me somehow? I can make as much power as a R, can you put as much stuff as I can in my alltrack? Idiot.
Not tuning your car with a DP basically negates the reason to put it in. You are robbing your car power by NOT tuning it. A simple Google search will bring up 100,000s of answers...Here's just one reply of the thousands, from a shop that has built many MK7 GTi and R vehicles no less. The word of the day for you is...LEAN.

Screen Shot 2020-09-04 at 1.25.04 PM.png


You sound like a know-it-all 14 year old getting his first fancy car. Please stop spewing misinformation and if you think I’m wrong, show me the evidence. Happy for you to prove me wrong, I might just learn something. You [100%] don't know me so stop trying to quantitate it. Since we are in a R forum and I have run a BMS JB1, APR Stage I and II tune for almost 6 years on my own R, I'd say I know the intricacies of this car pretty well. Happy to learn some new facts though.

---

OP, here's a good video about whether it is worth it or not.

 

ZuMBLe

Autocross Newbie
Location
NY
Car(s)
Alltrack 6MT
Not tuning your car with a DP basically negates the reason to put it in. You are robbing your car power by NOT tuning it. A simple Google search will bring up 100,000s of answers...Here's just one reply of the thousands, from a shop that has built many MK7 GTi and R vehicles no less. The word of the day for you is...LEAN.

View attachment 184900

You sound like a know-it-all 14 year old getting his first fancy car. Please stop spewing misinformation and if you think I’m wrong, show me the evidence. Happy for you to prove me wrong, I might just learn something. You [100%] don't know me so stop trying to quantitate it. Since we are in a R forum and I have run a BMS JB1, APR Stage I and II tune for almost 6 years on my own R, I'd say I know the intricacies of this car pretty well. Happy to learn some new facts though.

---

OP, here's a good video about whether it is worth it or not.

The car has a O2 sensor that constantly monitors the AFRs. As long as the fuel pumps and injectors can keep up, it will reach target AFRs. It will NOT run lean. Simply adding a DP without a tune will NOT make the car run lean. It will however give you a cat inefficiency CEL. That's it.

I don't care how long you owned your R, you don't know all the intricacies of it. You just learned some new facts. ^^^^ there.

You make an assumption about my age etc. Actually, YOU don't know me. I do know the facts you got wrong though.
 

reallypeacedoff

Ready to race!
Location
Los Angeles
The car has a O2 sensor that constantly monitors the AFRs. As long as the fuel pumps and injectors can keep up, it will reach target AFRs. It will NOT run lean. Simply adding a DP without a tune will NOT make the car run lean. It will however give you a cat inefficiency CEL. That's it.

I don't care how long you owned your R, you don't know all the intricacies of it. You just learned some new facts. ^^^^ there.

You make an assumption about my age etc. Actually, YOU don't know me. I do know the facts you got wrong though.
So why do tuners insist on upgrading the software then, just to mask a CEL light?

It's to take advantage of the less restrictive EGT's. If you add more air and not more fuel, what does that do you your engine? Lean. Every tuner states that a Stage II tune is required for a DP upgrade. No tune and you may see an increase in power but I doubt very much. You will definitely lose torque. Get a tune and you alleviate both of these problems. As well as making it a safer engine. Why you wouldn't get a tune is beyond me.

OP, listen to this guy if you want to cut corners. Your car in the end. I'm out, had enough nonsense from this flat-earther.
 

bentin

Drag Racing Champion
Location
Austin, TX
Car(s)
2018 GTI SE
I think some people (or one) need to understand that the mention of a COBB is not the same as using the stock COBB maps. Figure that out, and this discussion will be more meaningful.
 

ZuMBLe

Autocross Newbie
Location
NY
Car(s)
Alltrack 6MT
So why do tuners insist on upgrading the software then, just to mask a CEL light?

It's to take advantage of the less restrictive EGT's. If you add more air and not more fuel, what does that do you your engine? Lean. Every tuner states that a Stage II tune is required for a DP upgrade. No tune and you may see an increase in power but I doubt very much. You will definitely lose torque. Get a tune and you alleviate both of these problems. As well as making it a safer engine. Why you wouldn't get a tune is beyond me.

OP, listen to this guy if you want to cut corners. Your car in the end. I'm out, had enough nonsense from this flat-earther.
I'm not saying don't get a tune, I'm saying your information is incorrect. Please pay attention to the details. I also insist that stage 2 is not really worth it on this platform considering EPA issues etc.

Yes, stage 2 OTS tunes on this platform mainly turn off the O2 sensor check so there is no CEL. The power difference is minimal.

I just informed you that the car adds more fuel when it sees lambda raise above its programmed level. Again, the car will not run lean. I'm trying to put correct information out there, not attack you. I understand it sucks to be wrong. I've been wrong (not this time). I'm setting you straight.

I'm the flat earther? I'm the one speaking facts and have tested this stuff myself and have tuned my own car on this platform. You're the one that has only run a OTS flash on this car.

That's the end of it for me with you also.

To put a stamp on this for facts for everyone else:

Look up "closed loop fueling". This is what the MK7 ECUs use.
 

reallypeacedoff

Ready to race!
Location
Los Angeles
I think some people (or one) need to understand that the mention of a COBB is not the same as using the stock COBB maps. Figure that out, and this discussion will be more meaningful.
Ahh yes, should have specified, OTS on COBB sucks but if your tuner is good, then great but as I said before, seems like you are trying to figure out pricing for hp. OTS will be best and if you keep it at Stage I you'll be stoked.

I'm not saying don't get a tune, I'm saying your information is incorrect. Please pay attention to the details. I also insist that stage 2 is not really worth it on this platform considering EPA issues etc.

Yes, stage 2 OTS tunes on this platform mainly turn off the O2 sensor check so there is no CEL. The power difference is minimal.

I just informed you that the car adds more fuel when it sees lambda raise above its programmed level. Again, the car will not run lean. I'm trying to put correct information out there, not attack you. I understand it sucks to be wrong. I've been wrong (not this time). I'm setting you straight. That's the end of it for me.

I'm the flat earther? I'm the one speaking facts and have tested this stuff myself and have tuned my own car on this platform. You're the one that has only run a OTS flash on this car.
So if they turn off there O2 check, they can't raise target the AFRs. Can't take advantage of there EGTs either. Seems like you are back-tracking now.

I know you are a flat-earther 100%. </end thread> lolz (<---- see how stupid you look)

You are wrong and you are digging yourself out of your hole. Maybe you'll find the bottom of earth down there. Good luck!
 

ZuMBLe

Autocross Newbie
Location
NY
Car(s)
Alltrack 6MT
Ahh yes, should have specified, OTS on COBB sucks but if your tuner is good, then great but as I said before, seems like you are trying to figure out pricing for hp. OTS will be best and if you keep it at Stage I you'll be stoked.



So if they turn off there O2 check, they can't raise target the AFRs. Can't take advantage of there EGTs either. Seems like you are back-tracking now.

I know you are a flat-earther 100%. </end thread> lolz (<---- see how stupid you look)

You are wrong and you are digging yourself out of your hole. Maybe you'll find the bottom of earth down there. Good luck!
You sir, are an idiot, and don't understand the details. Go look up closed loop fueling and learn something like you claim you want to. You're being put on ignore now. Even your comebacks are not worth responding to.
 

jimlloyd40

Autocross Champion
Location
Phoenix
Car(s)
2018 SE DSG
How so? Let's hear your rebuttal.

Run a DP with no software, car will lean out. Overheating the components is a lot worse than running rich.

Stage II jump is a significantly less of a jump than a Stage I from stock. You can run an IC in either Stage. The ECU is smart enough to see the change in air. It isn't smart enough when it comes to the DP, thus Stage II software.


Sorry, but there is A LOT of bad information here. R uses an IS38 turbo. </end thread> haha /s


COBB Acessport is rubbish on the R. On a 2005 STi, go for it. Been on this forum, and more so Vortex, for 6 years and many people running COBB get misfire codes plus other problems. COBB never helps out. Many have switched to another tuner. Search the Vortex site. I have had APR for 4 years and only had one problem which they were nice enough to figure out and help. Couldn't say that for COBB. They'll just blame your tuner. Also, you seem like you are looking for value for money, going the custom dyno tune will not be cheap, less so than a OTS map.



I mean, he IS in the R forum, shouldn't you be in the Alltrack forum?
You have no idea what you are talking about. You don't buy Cobb for their OTS tunes. You buy Cobb to get tuned by several other great tuners. Plus if you do have a problem Cobb is great to deal with. Of all the highest powered GTI's and R's in this forum I've yet to see a single one tuned by APR.

I just looked up pompous and arrogant in the dictionary and your picture was by both descriptions.
 
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El_bigote_AJ

Autocross Champion
Location
Las Vegas
Car(s)
2019 GTI bunny
Ahh yes, should have specified, OTS on COBB sucks but if your tuner is good, then great but as I said before, seems like you are trying to figure out pricing for hp. OTS will be best and if you keep it at Stage I you'll be stoked.



So if they turn off there O2 check, they can't raise target the AFRs. Can't take advantage of there EGTs either. Seems like you are back-tracking now.

I know you are a flat-earther 100%. </end thread> lolz (<---- see how stupid you look)

You are wrong and you are digging yourself out of your hole. Maybe you'll find the bottom of earth down there. Good luck!
Haha this is funny... he’s right you don’t actually fully understand how the 02 sensors (Plural) work or how the ecu targets afr.... bank 1 sensor 1 is what targets the AFR if you add more air it does not magically lean out as the ecu is programmed to adjust the fuel to hit the Afr targets, bank 1 sensor 2 is what reads the after POST cat to make sure it’s working properly environmentally it’s not used to adjust fueling.

Yes, you are correct stage 2 does add some performance in the tune by taking advantage of the reduced back pressure and lower EGT to add some timing and not only fool the bank 2 signal.
 

ck23

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Austin, Tx.
Car(s)
19 R (DSG) - Lapiz
I've always had very good results with APR, have been stage 1 on two R's. I have not gone stage 2, stage 1 always just seemed like enough. It is unfortunate that stage 2 with APR is going away, and this makes me second guess going stage 1 on my new R with them. I still may never go stage 2, but I might, and I'd hate to have to switch and go with a different tuner if that was the case.

I've heard great things about EQT (works through the Cobb AP), both in terms of customer service as well as power (seems to be on par with APR, at least for stage 1). I may go this route this time for a couple of reasons, can sell the AP in the future and recoup some of the spend (not necessary, but still something to keep in mind), and they should continue to offer a stage 2 solution (at least it seems so for now) if I decide to go that route in the future.

The flashing "at home" option is nice, and APR is missing a bit of market share by not having this so far, but I've heard they are developing a product for this. If so, I would assume that it will be out soon.

Decisions...decisions...:unsure:
 
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