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APR DTR6054 Direct Turbocharger Replacement System

Acadia18

Autocross Champion
Location
The Greater Boston Metropolitan Area
Car(s)
2019 Golf R
I contribute plenty to the off-topic nonsense, the point was you don't need to attack a new member for asking for help

In this particular case, there was only one specific reply of "Try reading the thread", which I guess could be seen as an attack? From there, every other clap back was a variation of "That won't really work in this situation, this thread sucks..."
 

riceburner

Autocross Champion
Location
nice try PPNT
Car(s)
MK5 Best GTI
^ good guy, badhombre
 

Subliminal

Autocross Champion
Location
Vegas
Car(s)
Slow FWD VW Hatch
In this particular case, there was only one specific reply of "Try reading the thread", which I guess could be seen as an attack? From there, every other clap back was a variation of "That won't really work in this situation, this thread sucks..."
Lol please. You spend more time on this forum than anyone so I'm sure you're aware this isn't the only time it's happened.
 

mrmatto

Autocross Champion
Location
Jacksonville, FL
Car(s)
2024 GTI DSG
TBF, I searched this thread for "results" -- which led to mentions of dragy, so I searched "dragy" and found results. Just took a few minutes 🤷‍♂️

@Acadia18 or @Daks I wonder... since you have the 2nd and 3rd posts in this thread... would it make sense to edit your post and add dynos, dragys, etc. from confirmed runs (after the updates were made to the tunes)? That might be asking a lot, but I'm sure it would be helpful.

Just trying to brainstorm how we might make 299 pages of discussion somewhat useful...
 

Subliminal

Autocross Champion
Location
Vegas
Car(s)
Slow FWD VW Hatch
TBF, I searched this thread for "results" -- which led to mentions of dragy, so I searched "dragy" and found results. Just took a few minutes 🤷‍♂️

@Acadia18 or @Daks I wonder... since you have the 2nd and 3rd posts in this thread... would it make sense to edit your post and add dynos, dragys, etc. from confirmed runs (after the updates were made to the tunes)? That might be asking a lot, but I'm sure it would be helpful.

Just trying to brainstorm how we might make 299 pages of discussion somewhat useful...
How many new members do you think are going to know to search for the term dragy? It also just takes a few minutes to type out a quick answer or share a link that might guide them in the right direction.
 

Daks

Autocross Champion
Location
Toronto
Car(s)
GTI PP
TBF, I searched this thread for "results" -- which led to mentions of dragy, so I searched "dragy" and found results. Just took a few minutes 🤷‍♂️

@Acadia18 or @Daks I wonder... since you have the 2nd and 3rd posts in this thread... would it make sense to edit your post and add dynos, dragys, etc. from confirmed runs (after the updates were made to the tunes)? That might be asking a lot, but I'm sure it would be helpful.

Just trying to brainstorm how we might make 299 pages of discussion somewhat useful...
Sure - but I'm not going to dig through that shit - someone paste it here and I'll use my precious real-estate to assist.
 

mrmatto

Autocross Champion
Location
Jacksonville, FL
Car(s)
2024 GTI DSG
@Daks Thanks man. Here are some quotes and data. I found that the last 20-30 pages have the most conclusive info that sort of "sums it up"....

Cliff Notes, big turbo with stock DP spools slower, APR's tunes are never very aggressive (compounding slower spool), don't use this turbo unless you have no other option due to emissions. Thank you for coming to my TED talk?

Stage 1 vs. DTR Dragy comparison: https://www.golfmk7.com/forums/inde...harger-replacement-system.396265/post-7861744

DTR uphill vs. downhill Dragy: https://www.golfmk7.com/forums/inde...harger-replacement-system.396265/post-7861793

Truth be told I kind of like the lag; feels like more of a true turbo experience. If i'm already in the mid range RPMs before I go to the floor (as you should be) then there really isn't much lag. Its just when crawling in 1st or 2nd gear
There's one up on Dragy. Certainly a capable turbo, just doesn't spool all that fast.
the percieved lag isn't THAT bad, but it is no is38 thats for sure.

the worst of it is when i need to, say, cut across a busy intersection. if i don't launch the car i become scared i'm not gonna make it across lol
I can’t speak to your R with fueling upgrades. On my GTI it’s a hair faster than my stage 1 on the low end and gets reckless on the high end.
Look at any of the decent logs posted....it's just quite laggy, end of story. Laggier than I'd like anyways, especially for a turbo / tune limited to stock fueling system.
I guess I'll have to grab some logs. What do you want to see, 3rd gear pull, 2500 to red line? Despite what has been said I find this setup completely fine day to day. I have Acadia18's dragy for a little bit before I ship it back to him. I have only done 1 0-60mph run so far. On my way back from the gym early in the morning (before 6am) so it was like 60° out. I figured I would give it a go on a stretch of road near my house. This is the second launch I have ever done in this car since stock. I spun off the launch pretty good. I pulled off from basically the shoulder, so between worn out all seasons and all the sand and crap on the side of the road it wasn't a great start. If I remember it was a 3.7 something, but invalid due to slope. I figure in better conditions and a valid run, maybe a 3.5x to 3.7ish. This is the base kit, no additional fueling on a Audi S3 DQ381 7 speed dsg with a curb weight of nearly 3500lbs. I'm into this for as little as possible, I literally have just the turbo and tune, nothing else, no supporting mods aside from a dry flow filter. I installed it myself on a weekend, got flashed on a Monday, been completely fine for the last 2K miles or so. It does what I was looking for in a daily driven car that i go to work and back in plus maybe some short trips here and there, probably 400+ miles a week, still averaging 29ish mpg. I had a aftermarket downpipe and stage 2 tune prior. If you're looking for ultimate power or a 1/4 mile monster this definitely isn't that. It's stage 2 with a little spice sprinkled on top. People can quote all the dyno charts and logs they want, but I'm telling you all this from someone who has this kit installed in their car. If none of it sounds appealing to you, don't buy it. Believe it or not there is this whole world outside of golfmk7.com and the 6 people with this kit on here. Are there better performance options out there? Absolutely. Is this option for everyone? No, it depends what you're trying to achieve and your level of expectations. Will some buyer's be disappointed? I guarantee it. Do I find asking questions and answering them myself pedantic and stupid? Yes, yes I do
The big elephant in the room when it comes to this DTR turbo, it's got laaaag. While we can talk all day how we can or can not trust dyno numbers, dynos do a great job of showing the shape of an engine's power output while also showing the behavior of a specific turbo. APR claims from their website it makes peak torque around 4k rpm:

View attachment 256813

Dyno graphs for the DTR are very elusive, but I've caught a few:

View attachment 256814
View attachment 256815

Seriously, why are these so hard to find...

So far we can say with decent confidence the DTR does not make full boost until about 4400rpm from the evidence. Even with the stock DP I fail to see how it is acceptable that this custom designed dual BB turbo, built from the ground up in the crystal labs of APR, still manages to spool 600rpms slower than a Vortex XL. 400rpms slower than advertised. Am I off the rocker here? Just look at the advert for this turbo, it sounds and looks like a slam dunk. This turbo lag would hit manual drivers the hardest as they wait for this literal snail to re-spool between shifts. For this reason they should probably place "For DSGs only" on the DTR page. :sneaky:

This kit would make a lot more sense with a much faster spooling IS38+ marketed to GTI owners as a stage 3 one stop shop solution, as this kit is already a hard sell for R owners anyways.

But the question is....is it possible APR could have built a turbo which delivers similar numbers as advertised, on the stock DP, and without all the lag?

EQT Proved to us, yes.....yes they could:

View attachment 256816
I rest my case.
Someone just posted another DTR dyno video for a 2021 MK7.5 GTI, APR tune - 411whp/393wtq:


Definitely seems to be a disconnect between the peak dyno figures and real world performance with this kit. Not that the performance is poor by any means, just that the power figures seem to demand more.
 

Acadia18

Autocross Champion
Location
The Greater Boston Metropolitan Area
Car(s)
2019 Golf R
Now when people ask questions, we can say "Read post 3!", because expecting someone to read 3 posts before asking a question is a little too much...
 

Acadia18

Autocross Champion
Location
The Greater Boston Metropolitan Area
Car(s)
2019 Golf R

mrmatto

Autocross Champion
Location
Jacksonville, FL
Car(s)
2024 GTI DSG
Reading a summary thread before posting covered questions should, going forward, be known as the mrmattolsen rule.
Nah, that rule has existed for years, since the early message board days. We just needed a little kick in the behind to make the summary to facilitate the rule.
 
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