GOLFMK8
GOLFMK7
GOLFMK6
GOLFMKV

APR DTR6054 Direct Turbocharger Replacement System

CarbonDub

Autocross Champion
This is my entire point. If you're spinning in 1st and 2nd gear, then it's the same kind of situation.

And "within a few mph" 1/4 mile trap speed is a significant difference in power using the formula people suggest.
You’re not going to break traction twice under power though - you will be able to see when you catch traction.

If we see a 2-3 mph deviation from say 114-117mph we can look at those 60’ times and 1/8 mile speeds to tell the rest of the story. There’s enough data in a time slip that there should be minimal confusion regarding real world performance/power.

If you want to get super specific though, no one should be spinning through 3rd gear with the DTR power/torque curve pushed so far out, so it’s kind of a moot point.

Edit: To expand on my first statement, technically yes, you could chirp 3rd which is breaking traction, but with this car it’s not going to be enough to affect the trap speed. My point is that you’re not going to do another full burnout shifting to 3rd down the track when you’re already accelerating.
 
Last edited:

mrmatto

Autocross Champion
Location
Jacksonville, FL
Car(s)
2024 GTI DSG
Guys really in the know will compare “back half” numbers, or how much mph you pick up from the 1/8 to the 1/4. A strong running turbo car will average 30mph gained in that 660ft which is nearly impossible to mess up as you’re already going faster than highway speeds by the 1/8
So why not just use something like 60-100 via dragy?
 

shovelhd

Autocross Champion
Location
Western MA
The bottom line is, launches are where races are won and lost, but they don't say much about power/weight. Unless you're running donuts, any decent street car is going to be hooked up in the first 60-120 feet. There's still 1200 feet to go, and that's where you'll get a good idea of power/weight and thus power.
 

R Golf

Go Kart Champion
Location
Lenox, MA
Did you read the article I linked? It explains all of this...
I did read the article. Thanks.

At first I was totally confused with your statement, but after your article and much research it makes total sense in most circumstances. If I'm understanding everything I've read, the most important criteria in this discussion is the DISTANCE COVERED WITH A LACK OF TRACTION. In the case of near stock GTi's that distance is very very small and has almost no effect on trap speed. I think that would also be the case with an R or GTi adding an APR turbo.

For those questioning it, look at it as just running a shorter track starting from where you hook up. A few feet is going to have almost no impact on trap speed, but maybe big changes in times. If you try to drive a AA fuel car with crap tires you will spin the entire way down and that will have a significant effect on both times and trap.
 
Last edited:

tigeo

Autocross Champion
Because that’s not a sample that crosses over.

There’s millions of 1/4 mile time slips to compare and most of us have decades of experience doing so.

These dragy pick your small window to look at comparisons are the TicTok of racing
100% this. Plus all the calculators for power are based on 1/4 mile.
 

mrmatto

Autocross Champion
Location
Jacksonville, FL
Car(s)
2024 GTI DSG
I did read the article. Thanks.

At first I was totally confused with your statement, but after your article and much research it makes total sense in most circumstances. If I'm understanding everything I've read, the most important criteria in this discussion is the DISTANCE COVERED WITH A LACK OF TRACTION. In the case of near stock GTi's that distance is very very small and has almost no effect on trap speed. I think that would also be the casse with an R or GTi adding an APR turbo.

Look at it as just running a shorter track starting from where you hook up. A few feet is going to have almost no impact on trap speed, but if you try to drive a AA fuel car with crap tires you will spin the entire way down and mya have a significant effect.
I get the principle behind it. It's not just about lack of traction though, because you could limit your throttle to avoid spin. But then you're accelerating slower to avoid spin. If you have to limit your throttle all the way through the top of 2nd gear more than the other guy with stickier tires, it seems that's a long enough distance to hurt your trap speed.

But I think this is the factor I was really missing:
If we see a 2-3 mph deviation from say 114-117mph we can look at those 60’ times and 1/8 mile speeds to tell the rest of the story. There’s enough data in a time slip that there should be minimal confusion regarding real world performance/power.
It's not just the trap speed, but also the context in which that trap speed was achieved that allows to understand if it's a solid run or not. That makes a lot of sense to me.
Because that’s not a sample that crosses over.

There’s millions of 1/4 mile time slips to compare and most of us have decades of experience doing so.

These dragy pick your small window to look at comparisons are the TicTok of racing
Makes sense.
 

tigeo

Autocross Champion
I did read the article. Thanks.

At first I was totally confused with your statement, but after your article and much research it makes total sense in most circumstances. If I'm understanding everything I've read, the most important criteria in this discussion is the DISTANCE COVERED WITH A LACK OF TRACTION. In the case of near stock GTi's that distance is very very small and has almost no effect on trap speed. I think that would also be the casse with an R or GTi adding an APR turbo.

Look at it as just running a shorter track starting from where you hook up. A few feet is going to have almost no impact on trap speed, but if you try to drive a AA fuel car with crap tires you will spin the entire way down and mya have a significant effect.
Nailed it.
 

CarbonDub

Autocross Champion
Because that’s not a sample that crosses over.

There’s millions of 1/4 mile time slips to compare and most of us have decades of experience doing so.

These dragy pick your small window to look at comparisons are the TicTok of racing
THIS. We are trying to sample the DTR vs thousands of other 1/4 mile time slips that exist - not more obscure data points and ambiguous logs.
 

tigeo

Autocross Champion
I get the principle behind it. It's not just about lack of traction, because you could limit your throttle to avoid spin. But then you're accelerating slower to avoid spin. If you have to limit your throttle all the way through the top of 2nd gear more than the other guy with stickier tires, it seems that's a long enough distance to hurt your trap speed.

But I think this is the factor I was really missing:

It's not just the trap speed, but also the context in which that trap speed was achieved that allows to understand if it's a solid run or not. That makes a lot of sense to me.

Makes sense.
Booooommmm!
 

mrmatto

Autocross Champion
Location
Jacksonville, FL
Car(s)
2024 GTI DSG


Thanks y'all. I like to try to fully understand things and this community likes to 'splain things ❤❤
 

Attachments

  • 1651153947081.png
    1651153947081.png
    268.8 KB · Views: 23

SnailPower

Autocross Newbie
Location
North NJ
Car(s)
2017 GTI MT, PP, LP
I'll sum up the last few pages for those that don't want math. In fact, just dig up my previous post, oh I don't know, 20 pages ago now?

"Spinnin ain't winnin".

Though I agree with, if you have to throttle to avoid spin, you're not going to trap as high. At the same time, just punching it and you're spinning and not going anywhere... not trapping as high. You need a real good set of stickies, roast em up, punch it, pray they stick and that should be a pretty good estimate to sum it all up :D

EDIT - Oh and I suppose mostly only us FWD guys have to deal with this ***T!
 

PerceivedShift

Autocross Champion
Location
Virginia
I feel like we’re “watching” a Maxwell trial when the forums demand Rittenhouse lol. Maybe APR can draw us a cartoon?
Right? What a crapshoot of a release this has been. But fun nonetheless

The timeline...anyone feel free to edit, add to, correct, or whatever. Made this from my crap memory lol
  1. APR releases a product
  2. A few customers install APR product
  3. Customers doubt APR product is producing claimed WHP
  4. People argue both ways using very little available data, people beg for more data
  5. APR says customer data matches up with their test cars
  6. APR pays customer to place car with APR product on dyno
  7. APR claims car was indeed not making claimed WHP numbers due to ECU version...or something
  8. APR also claims they found an issue to increase WHP numbers while customer car was on dyno
  9. APR remains vague on everything adding to the doubt and confusion, still not providing any data or numbers
  10. APR Claims gains have been made on their test car, a GLI, on the dyno, which is also likely a different ECU version than the test customer car
  11. Still not a single good log, dyno, dragy, 1/4 run in sight people still have doubts
  12. To be continued....
 
Top