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Ambient: 73 - Oil: 275 - overheating & misfires at Sonoma

Bernb6

Go Kart Champion
Location
Palo Alto, CA
Car(s)
2017 GTI Autobahn
My first day at the track in my GTI surprised me in a bad way. As in the title, the day was cool - 73 mid-day - but oil temps got pretty high and EPC/CEL came on in the fourth session. OBDC said misfires on cylinders 1 & 3 as well as random misfires. Needless to say, that was the end of my day.

034MotorSports previously installed Stage 1 and DSC tunes and I'm taking it in to them next Monday and was already signed up for Laguna Seca next Friday. I've now seen comments re keeping fuel levels up and believe fuel was at 1/3 when the misfires and CEL occurred.

I'm on the fence re changing the oil. I saw a MotorTrend.com article that says full synthetic oils can handle temps up to 300 degrees.

Depending on outcome of 034MS review, I'd consider an aluminum oil pan or oil cooler.

Thoughts and comments would be appreciated and I'll let you know what 034MS says next week.

Bern
 

xXDavidCXx

Autocross Champion
Location
AZ
Car(s)
2017 GTI SE DSG

spaparizos

Ready to race!
Location
Mountain View, CA
Car(s)
'17 GTI Sport
At 275 I would personally back-off the car and do 1-2 laps but without going full throttle all the time, just enjoy the turns. In general I start taking it easy and try to keep it at 250-260. It cools down very fast if the car is moving. I have not found any cost effective products to deal with oil temps, so not much advise there. Oil coolers seem to be such a huge and expensive undertaking. Then there is the transmission fluid temp as well. My personal preference is to chill a bit instead of dealing with this.

Sanity check, see if your oil is between the hashmarks. I found a big difference when the shop had accidentally more oil in it. Increased the temps by 10-20 degrees when pushed.

I am curious on your pace at Sonoma that caused the overheating, what times were you getting?
 

arob157

Drag Racing Champion
Location
USA
What tuning platform and whose tune are you using?

I know Cobb and Eurodyne recently added the coolant temp target tables added to their calibrations. This allows for lower temp targets based on engine RPMs.

I am tuned via Maestro and was able to lower my temps by 15 degrees F. Could target even more (and plenty of Cobb protunes do just this) but no need to overwork the fans.

Oil cooler is also a decent option if you are going to track the car often.
 

Bernb6

Go Kart Champion
Location
Palo Alto, CA
Car(s)
2017 GTI Autobahn
I know that high temps with a tune is a frequent topic. I was nonetheless surprised to see it at 73 degrees ambient and especially to suffer misfires.
My pace at Sonoma wasn't very fast but I was WOT whenever possible. Oil level is between the hash marks. And I worry about the tranny temp as well since I'm using the paddles quite a bit.
As mentioned, I'm using 034Motorsports tune.
 

Will_

Autocross Champion
Location
SF Bay Area
Car(s)
2017 GTI S DSG
I am a bit surprised it got that hot on a 73F day, usually I don’t have issues unless it’s 80+. I usually back off around 265 to let the car cool, I see significant performance degradation once oil temps get that hot. Oil cooling is an issue with these turbo motors

Racingline makes a bolt on oil cooler kit that is probably you best bet in terms of a quick solution. The downside of it is they want you to buy a special oil filter and replace it each time you change the oil. The upside is, you can just order two filters and clean the other one while it is out of the car, rinse and repeat. That is the kit I’d get, but currently my intercooler setup blocks where the oil cooler kit would mount, so I manage without.

I have never experienced a DSG temp issue, I’ve heard of them but it doesn’t seem to be as big of an issue as engine oil temps.

034 I believe is a vendor for Racingline so they could provide good info about the oil cooler kit.
 

spaparizos

Ready to race!
Location
Mountain View, CA
Car(s)
'17 GTI Sport
I also have the 034 tunes. If anything, after the tunes my temps went down a bit ~10 degrees on average, even when cruising.

I got hit with transmission overheating a couple of times. It sucks, the car cuts down on power to protect itself and the gear changes become very slow (DSG). Then you have to go back in the pits and wait to cool down.

I went down the path of cooling choices with 034 over a year ago and did not like the options we discussed or the price points. Curious to see what you find out.

I try to shift at 6k RPMs, use the 4-6k band. Seems to keep me ok in terms of overheating for now. I don't go to the track enough to justify significant expenses.
 

jimlloyd40

Autocross Champion
Location
Phoenix
Car(s)
2018 SE DSG
Guys, when you track your car, try setting your cabin heater to full hot and full fan blast.
It will do wonders to draw heat away from the engine :)
What happens when you crash due to severe heat exhaustion? 😂
 

Luva

Go Kart Champion
Location
FL
Car(s)
2020 GTI SE
Well, I have two track events under the belt, both at Sebring. The ambient temp during the first event was around 90 F. The second event was 70 F. I have a stock GTI, minus an upgraded intercooler and an EQT stage 1 tune. I never saw above 225 F oil temp during both events.

Just thought I'd share my experience with tracking my GTI, in case it helps anyone to at least consider a tune that aims for lower oil temps.
 

bobivy1234

Go Kart Champion
Location
Greensboro, NC USA
Car(s)
2016 VW Golf GTI
In my experience an oil cooler is a must at track. Also EPC could happen due to oil starvation in a long sweeper so keep your oil level high and probably want to invest in a nice PCV replacement. Misfires are usually mis-gapped spark plugs or bad coil packs.

I've got an extra Racingline oil cooler kit if interested, definitely the best turnkey kit available due to their oil filter housing adapter. Also have an extra Spulen v2 CC/PCV that is solid on track for avoiding oil blowby.

Cheapest way for fluid cooling is hood louvers like Verus since all the fluids in the GTI are heat exchanged with the coolant and the engine bay gets hot. Larger oil pans like iAbeds baffled oil pan helps due to more oil volume and also avoids starvation in sweepers.

For DSG fluid heat, shouldn't be as concerning assuming the fluid has been changed at the right intervals. Colder coolant/oil means cooler DSG fluid as it's all related. Make sure your car has the OEM DSG breather box installed which is housed on the left side of the battery tray under the intake. This avoids the very real issue of DSG fluid expansion at high temps and DSG fluid gets everywhere.

Finally a coolant additive like Water Wetter or similar is the quickest way to drop temps.
 
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Bernb6

Go Kart Champion
Location
Palo Alto, CA
Car(s)
2017 GTI Autobahn
Bob, thanks for your comments. I have since added an oil cooler and oil temps are good, though I haven't been out on a hot day yet.
I'm still getting misfires at redline. Plugs have been upgraded and I'm still assessing the cause.
Bern
 

bobivy1234

Go Kart Champion
Location
Greensboro, NC USA
Car(s)
2016 VW Golf GTI
Bob, thanks for your comments. I have since added an oil cooler and oil temps are good, though I haven't been out on a hot day yet.
I'm still getting misfires at redline. Plugs have been upgraded and I'm still assessing the cause.
Bern
Hmm that may be time for coil pack upgrade/replacement then. Most people think it is snake oil but only if there aren't standing issues like misfires, since you still are it is probably worth looking into. I put in the APR coils alongside my 1 step cooler RS7 plugs for my stage 2 tune and haven't had a misfire on 12 days of tracking this year. Did you gap the spark plugs to what the tuner wanted you to or did the shop do that? Usually it is around 0.024" inch gap.

Other thing is probably worth doing a compression test in all cylinders just to make sure everything is sealing up well, good idea of engine health anyway.
 

Bernb6

Go Kart Champion
Location
Palo Alto, CA
Car(s)
2017 GTI Autobahn
Bob, the shop took care of the spark plug gaps for me. They reported the old plugs we're mis-gapped so I am confident they've gapped the new ones correctly. I'm waiting for their report on other possible causes but may just have them reduce the red line shift point.
 
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