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Acoustic insulating Project - 3 leaks found so far

cb1111

Newbie
Location
Virginia, USA
50mph - Before 73db -- After 70db (3db improvement)
60mph - Before 77db -- After 72db (5db improvement)
70mph - Before 80db -- After 73db (7db improvement)


I would have to agree, for 3, 5, 7db improvement wouldn't be my goal for a project like this.. 10, 15, 17 maybe...
Actually, 3db is smallest amount of difference that you can hear, so the car will be quieter than before. More importantly the doors will feel more solid.

Everybody needs to decide if an improvement is "worth it". If he was expecting a 20db decrease then it isn't worth it, but if he was interested in an incremental decrease, then he got it.

That said, 73db at 50mph seems a bit loud as a baseline.
 

The Dude

Drag Racing Champion
Location
PNW
Be nice fellas, this isn't US politics. We're all friends here. I did noico from the rear seats back, to include the wheelwells, and I noticed a pretty substantial difference. If I ever do any stereo stuff in the car, I'll probably do the doors too after reading this thread. Although I don't know that I'd completely remove the doors. How difficult was that, and were there any specific parts that were one time use that I ought to have on hand prior to starting?
 

Munstertel

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
United Kingdom
Car(s)
R-Line Edition
Actually, 3db is smallest amount of difference that you can hear, so the car will be quieter than before. More importantly the doors will feel more solid.

Everybody needs to decide if an improvement is "worth it". If he was expecting a 20db decrease then it isn't worth it, but if he was interested in an incremental decrease, then he got it.

That said, 73db at 50mph seems a bit loud as a baseline.
That’s the strange thing with sound, 3db is what’s required for the human ear to register change so you could say that is a tiny amount. 10db is a doubling of sound Which you could say is huge.

Considering the following,

* I have not yet insulated the boot area, approx 25% or the rear wheel arches.
* it’s a car, the upper half is made of glass and you’re being hit with sound from everywhere.
* there was no goal in terms of a figure as Its so hard to predict sound in a static environment, much less a dynamic one. just crack a window at home half an inch and note the increase in sound levels. So without 100% coverage what could you realistically expect?

So in my case I’m very please to reduce by 7db at 70mph, the speed I spend most of my driving at. 17db, maybe it was said tongue in cheek or the poster doesn’t understand sound, is 3x a reduction in volume. Wouldn’t Even think it’s possible.

Bottom line, I’m not finished and have some great results(for me it’s worth it). Taking on the job led me to find serious water ingress in many areas that were destroying the interior. Now my golf is quieter, dry, clean and warm. :)

Youre right, 73db at 50mph was high. A rough piece of a Dual carriageway near my house. I took the original reading there as it’s typical of the sh*te roads we have here.
 

Munstertel

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
United Kingdom
Car(s)
R-Line Edition
Be nice fellas, this isn't US politics. We're all friends here. I did noico from the rear seats back, to include the wheelwells, and I noticed a pretty substantial difference. If I ever do any stereo stuff in the car, I'll probably do the doors too after reading this thread. Although I don't know that I'd completely remove the doors. How difficult was that, and were there any specific parts that were one time use that I ought to have on hand prior to starting?
Agree :oops::)

I took the doors off as I only have outdoor space to work and I didn’t fancy laying in the mud/wet gravel trying to contort my arm inside to applying the material.

Each door required, sound dreading on two skins, sound insulation on two skins, speakers and tweeters replacing, silicone inside to sort out the water ingress. With a days work per door it was worth it to me to get each inside and on a bench in the warm and dry and under lights, next to the coffee machine. I wanted to get into each door and be done once and for all you see.

10 mins off and 10 mins to put on. Second person required to hold the weight. I think it was an M10 or M12 spline bit for the 3 bolts and the connector is a quick disconnect. Ensure you have a Carista or similar OBDII for resetting the faults and airbags after (y)
 

cb1111

Newbie
Location
Virginia, USA
That’s the strange thing with sound, 3db is what’s required for the human ear to register change so you could say that is a tiny amount. 10db is a doubling of sound Which you could say is huge.

Considering the following,

* I have not yet insulated the boot area, approx 25% or the rear wheel arches.
* it’s a car, the upper half is made of glass and you’re being hit with sound from everywhere.
* there was no goal in terms of a figure as Its so hard to predict sound in a static environment, much less a dynamic one. just crack a window at home half an inch and note the increase in sound levels. So without 100% coverage what could you realistically expect?

So in my case I’m very please to reduce by 7db at 70mph, the speed I spend most of my driving at. 17db, maybe it was said tongue in cheek or the poster doesn’t understand sound, is 3x a reduction in volume. Wouldn’t Even think it’s possible.

Bottom line, I’m not finished and have some great results(for me it’s worth it). Taking on the job led me to find serious water ingress in many areas that were destroying the interior. Now my golf is quieter, dry, clean and warm. :)

Youre right, 73db at 50mph was high. A rough piece of a Dual carriageway near my house. I took the original reading there as it’s typical of the sh*te roads we have here.
I suspect he doesn't understand how sound works.

There is also the difference between road noise reduction and vibration reduction.

Large flat panels will vibrate and make unwanted noise - sticking a 6 inch square of rubberized sticky stuff in the middle of the panel with reduce it as much as covering the whole panel.

That won't, of course, reduce road noise and that is where "full coverage" comes in. The problem with that is that it gets heavy quick and can easily exceed a couple of hundred pounds on a car.

Can you take all the insulation out and get us a new baseline on a smooth road? :D :p

But seriously, a new reading on a smooth road would be nice.
 

gixxerfool

Ready to race!
Location
New Jersey
Car(s)
2016 Golf R
@Munstertel I have to say this is quite the undertaking. I started a similar project in my Civic and stopped after the trunk.

in terms of your water ingress, could you expand on a few points please?

1. You mentioned the body vents leaking like it was a common issue. Has that been something you have found in your research? Could you detail your fix?

2. Basically the same as question 1 but in reference to the boot drain leaking.

3. You mentioned silicone to fix the door leak, what exactly did you do you make sure the water wouldn’t come back?

Thanks I’m advance
 

Munstertel

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
United Kingdom
Car(s)
R-Line Edition
I suspect he doesn't understand how sound works.

There is also the difference between road noise reduction and vibration reduction.

Large flat panels will vibrate and make unwanted noise - sticking a 6 inch square of rubberized sticky stuff in the middle of the panel with reduce it as much as covering the whole panel.

That won't, of course, reduce road noise and that is where "full coverage" comes in. The problem with that is that it gets heavy quick and can easily exceed a couple of hundred pounds on a car.

Can you take all the insulation out and get us a new baseline on a smooth road? :D :p

But seriously, a new reading on a smooth road would be nice.
I probably went a bit mad in the boot area with the resonance reduction material(Dynamat extreme), maybe 70% coverage. I soon learned where to put it and that it was the next layer(Noico insulation) that was going to have the biggest effect in reducing noise penetrating into the cabin.

If i could ever find a smooth road round my way i'll get another reading :D 2 new front tyres being fitted this week, that may help a little.
 

Munstertel

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
United Kingdom
Car(s)
R-Line Edition
@Munstertel I have to say this is quite the undertaking. I started a similar project in my Civic and stopped after the trunk.

in terms of your water ingress, could you expand on a few points please?

1. You mentioned the body vents leaking like it was a common issue. Has that been something you have found in your research? Could you detail your fix?

2. Basically the same as question 1 but in reference to the boot drain leaking.

3. You mentioned silicone to fix the door leak, what exactly did you do you make sure the water wouldn’t come back?

Thanks I’m advance
Hi Gixxer,

Keep in mind with my experience, i'm in exactly the best climate for bringing forward issues of moisture ingress(Ireland & the U.K.) so i guess these problems will not affect everyone to the same extent.

1. The body vents. Seems to be a common issue. Will manifest itself as water found below the spare wheel. You will need to remove everything maybe even the spare to see it. The vents aren't a tight fit in their cutout. The path for drain water passes straight over them. When static, the vent seal sits nicely and prevents ingress to the boot. But when driving(i believe) the vibration on the vents allows water to come in. Proved by gently vibrating them by hand while in the presence of rain.
Solution, silicone seal them in place.
10C3AAA2-125E-4A3B-BE5F-667EDE8F191D.jpeg


2. The VW Boot handle drain pipe issue is very common. While searching for 'Water in VW Golf VII Boot', i found it was a potential cause. I went out and checked and just like everyone else, mine was perished.
Solution, Replace it. £10 i think.

3. The door leak is also very common. It may/may not surprise you(It did surprise me), water is designed to pass through the metal outer and inner skins of each door. It goes from either end of the window glass seal where it is not water tight(maybe by design), down through the door, over the door locks and window regulators into the bottom of the door where it passes outside via a Forward and a mid drain hole which looks like a slot.
The seals on the speakers rot, i'm not sure after how long, my car is 5 years old. This creates a path for the water to come from between the inner and outer skin to enter the interior and pool in the footwell.
All 4 speaker seals were rotten on the lower most portion of each speaker, however, only the rear really had much water enter the car. The right rear was awful. The rear door design seems to cause any rainwater that enters the 2 skins to take a specific path that takes it directly to the speaker!! When your seal goes, it's coming in. It's ugly as F*ck.
Solution(for me), silicone, put a bead inside that directs this water from above the speaker around it, think along the lines of what your eyebrow does for your eye, that kinda shape.
D2AA28C0-EEBE-4426-A55A-664204F2A6EE.jpeg

9CFE67B3-8C6D-4CA2-B88F-D3868AB9B850.jpeg

I will say these are all my opinions and can't say 100% that i'm correct, just that these are the fixes i applied and time will tell if they are good enough or if there is unintended consequences. :)
 
Last edited:

gixxerfool

Ready to race!
Location
New Jersey
Car(s)
2016 Golf R
Hi Gixxer,

Keep in mind with my experience, i'm in exactly the best climate for bringing forward issues of moisture ingress(Ireland & the U.K.) so i guess these problems will not affect everyone to the same extent.

1. The body vents. Seems to be a common issue. Will manifest itself as water found below the spare wheel. You will need to remove everything maybe even the spare to see it. The vents aren't a tight fit in their cutout. The path for drain water passes straight over them. When static, the vent seal sits nicely and prevents ingress to the boot. But when driving(i believe) the vibration on the vents allows water to come in. Proved by gently vibrating them by hand while in the presence of rain.
Solution, silicone seal them in place.
View attachment 199982


2. The VW Boot handle drain pipe issue is very common. While searching for 'Water in VW Golf VII Boot', i found it was a potential cause. I went out and checked and just like everyone else, mine was perished.
Solution, Replace it. £10 i think.

3. The door leak is also very common. It may/may not surprise you(It did surprise me), water is designed to pass through the metal outer and inner skins of each door. It goes from either end of the window glass seal where it is not water tight(maybe by design), down through the door, over the door locks and window regulators into the bottom of the door where it passes outside via a Forward and a mid drain hole which looks like a slot.
The seals on the speakers rot, i'm not sure after how long, my car is 5 years old. This creates a path for the water to come from between the inner and outer skin to enter the interior and pool in the footwell.
All 4 speaker seals were rotten on the lower most portion of each speaker, however, only the rear really had much water enter the car. The right rear was awful. The rear door design seems to cause any rainwater that enters the 2 skins to take a specific path that takes it directly to the speaker!! When your seal goes, it's coming in. It's ugly as F*ck.
Solution(for me), silicone, put a bead inside that directs this water from above the speaker around it, think along the lines of what your eyebrow does for your eye, that kinda shape.
View attachment 199975

View attachment 199976
I will say these are all my opinions and can't say 100% that i'm correct, just that these are the fixes i applied and time will tell if they are good enough or if there is unintended consequences. :)
Wow. Thanks so much for the information. Amazing. Things I can fix and/or get in front of. This is an incredible post. The body vents are something I will tackle in the warmer weather. I was Able to eyeball the drain for the hatch and it does need replacing.
 
Last edited:

Munstertel

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
United Kingdom
Car(s)
R-Line Edition
Wow. Thanks so much for the information. Amazing. Things I can fix and/or get in front of. This is an incredible post. The body vents are something I will tackle in the warmer weather. I was Able to eyeball the drain for the hatch and it does need replacing.
No problem fella. Funny that about the hatch drain. I guess it's the same design all over the world. It would just be nice to know about the issues before they cause damage. If there's any Mods reading, would it be ok if i created a thread of known issues, like an Index? Or maybe it's already been done?
 

gixxerfool

Ready to race!
Location
New Jersey
Car(s)
2016 Golf R
No problem fella. Funny that about the hatch drain. I guess it's the same design all over the world. It would just be nice to know about the issues before they cause damage. If there's any Mods reading, would it be ok if i created a thread of known issues, like an Index? Or maybe it's already been done?
Thankfully it’s easy to see if it needs it. I may order a second just in case. The speaker and body vent issue seem to be a one time fix. I also need to address the rear washer dribble in my car. When my taillights arrive I will try and do all of these at once.
You may have better luck PM-ing and mod direct.
 
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