4/10/24 Track Night @ HHR - Stormy attempts a FWD lap record (how will it end?)

[GoatAutomotive]

Very surprised your OEM GTI ball joints are having issues. I guess VW updated them midway in 2017? No issues with a GTI Sport purchased in April 2017.

Updated my LCA/Ball Joint photo above

I have truly s**t luck with aftermarket parts and installs some weeks…

 

[1970something]

I took a gander at my ball joint studs today. They are pretty darn long. The 034 control arm would have to be super thick to get insufficient thread engagement.

2017 GTI Sport (PP)

 

[GoatAutomotive]

Here’s the tragic low-down of what happened this month. Some great successes, and some tragic disappointments.

I take full responsibility for my share of the mistakes. The frustrating parts issues…I could not have predicted.

I pushed it too close to race day for the installs. I still had parts rolling in 1-2 days before the event. The truth is I get pulled a lot of different directions, and I have a lot of people to make happy, with my job and (sometimes) personal life.

Tuesday 4/9, the day before race day, I had a customer car milk most of my afternoon and evening, from 1-7pm. That was time I had budgeted for Stormy. First fail. But it was worth it to make him happy, and to have his car faultless for his dyno tune day on 4/12.

I resumed work on the GTI at 8pm Tuesday, right as a nasty storm rolled in. This meant I had to squeeze the car into the shop…that’s currently occupied by a long-term restoration project for a customer GTO.

Worked all evening and night in very tight conditions. Short rest from ~midnight to 3am, then immediately back up and working. Worked from ~3am until 1pm, when I finally had to call it: I wasn’t going to make the track event. [face palm]

Car had too much going on with it and still needed an alignment, plus I hadn’t had any spare time to test the lap timing equipment and software. And I hadn’t safety/road tested the new parts. My stress levels were on par with air traffic controllers on 9/11.

Forfeiting a track day…what an absolute boner crusher, and I was ~80% to blame.


Here’s what went right:

…the track-spec dead-set kit I put together for testing fit and worked faultlessly. I was genuinely impressed. It made getting the subframe re-installed an absolute delight.

…All four 034 S3 springs went in without issue. Excellent fitment.

…Rear PS Track Day Spec pads fit perfectly. (fronts not yet installed, but coming soon)



Here’s what went over like a fart in church:

…front LCA installs and sub-frame removal. JFC I lost a lot of time on this, and had to relearn the strategies. I can post details if folks are interested, but I’m omitting it here in the interest of brevity.

…alignment: the toe plates I bought turned out to be crap for this application.

Live and learn, pay the price. I d**ked with them for 2+hrs on the front end, but couldn’t get anything resembling solid adjustments. They just don’t properly interface against the sidewall of the tires for accurate measurements. So again, I was destined to fail on this event.


Product reviews:

• 034 LCAs are awesome with an asterisk: you need to verify you have at LEAST 1” of thread on the studs for your ball joints, because the flanges on the mounting surface of the aluminum arms are thicker than Amy Schumer’s waistline.
• 
  
• Mine are about 5mm too short, so even if I’d hit my install deadlines, the car would still be “questionable” in the safety dept. Their rigidity is every bit as amazing as I hoped and wanted. I spent 6 months driving the car on stock LCAs, and the squirmy rubber bishings absolutely destroyed a brand new pair of Michelins in just 4k miles.
• 
  
• 034 S3 springs also have a big asterisk: rear springs sit right where I expected a lighter GTI to sit. No problem. But for some reason my front springs sag like Nancy Pelosi’s breasts. They absolutely slammed the car, maybe 15-20mm above the bump stops, and easily 8-10mm LOWER than the H&R springs I removed. Pics below:
• 
  
• The stiffer rate is on par with a set of Bilstein B14s or BC coils, which was intentional. You feel more bumps and imperfections, but it isn’t as abusive as dating Amber Heard. The first time you chuck the car into a corner, everything is right with the world. I honestly would like even more front spring rate and/or ride height if we're honest.
• 
  
• Dead-set kit is a must. Price and peace of mind is #ZEN. I can now remove my subframe anytime without buying fresh TTY bolts, and without mucking up the alignment.
• 
  
• Verdict is out on the TDS pads. I haven’t installed my fronts yet, nor have I performed the bed-in procedure. Without bed-in, the TDS rear pads are completely transparent. No noticeable change in brake dust or bite yet compared to the HPS 5.0. Cannot review them until a track day, so don't pass judgment.
• 
  
• Oil change w/5W-40 Castrol Edge Euro and OEM VW/Mann filter was required. Perfectly timed! Right before the new splash shield/aero tray.

Still need to…

• Align car, install front track pads and rotors, install aero shield, test-fit new wheels and tires, clearance a sharp section of the inner fender liner since a tire might rub it in hard cornering and pose a safety hazard.
• Test the 2 GoPros and mounts/accessories on loan to me
• Commit to a lap timer software and start learning it. Shoot practice vids, etc.
• New nicer, higher-end Longacre toe plates have been ordered and will be here ~4/18. Huge game changer for my car, and customer cars if they work as intended.

Silver Lining:

All of these things needed to happen for the safety, maintenance and progression of the car. I postponed this post due to my own shame and disappointment, and I feel like I let the community down after so much hype and anticipation for the 4/10 event.

But now I’ll have everything sorted and tested by the May event. I’m genuinely excited for all of the upgrades and digital gear, as this will start me down a long-overdue path of learning to video edit.

I think that’s everything. HUGE thank you to those who have been following along and cheerleading me from afar. No names, but their initials are @krs , @tigeo , @DerHase , @MonkeyMD , and probably a few others.

 

[GoatAutomotive]

Small victories!

Firestone couldn’t do the alignment today, which was a blessing in disguise:

They admitted their Saturday techs aren’t exactly Mensa scholars and I should wait for their better alignment tech Tuesday.

Came home inspired and determined:

There’s a fast cruise tomorrow with my car club across some brilliant backroads in the TX hill country. Car HAS to be aligned and verified safe for the cruise.

So I did some engineering…

See pics below.

Was able to make my own alignment rack, verified the car was level, suspension fully compressed; centered the wheel and and zero’d the toe, which was my goal all along. (To do my own alignment work)

I was also able to make these toe plates work REALLY well under these conditions.

 

[GoatAutomotive]

Aero tray plans didn’t pan out. (Almost a dad pun)

I ordered the one that checked out from my research, then discovered it doesn’t have the proper cooling channels for the DSG trans. The pics online of these are truly terrible, basically a first year police sketch of a suspect. Did the best I could under those conditions.

Hard pass.

Returning and exchanging this beauty Monday with my local drug dealer (VW). Will buy the one specifically for the GTI that gives full coverage (lord willing)

Before anyone says it:

Alltrack tray and ECS Street Shield are my dream, but out of budget at this time.

Just wanted some budget friendly aero since airflow gets trapped and thrown around my engine bay at speeds above 50-60…

 

[tigeo]

 

[GoatAutomotive]

View attachment 303184

That is the aero tray I need. Thank you, AK!

I actually bought a series of M8x1.25 T304 stainless bolts and washers instead of the annoying Torx bolts VW uses.

Hope to have the correct splash shield tomorrow.

 

[GoatAutomotive]

Track Day Spec pads initial review:

TDS pads were PHENOMENAL today on the canyon runs. I bedded them in late last night, then drove with them this morning.

So far I would compare them to a factory BMW M pad, or perhaps the Brembo pads that come on the Camaro SS1LE and ZL1 that are designed for street and beginner track duty…the ones with 20 pistons all around?

Dusty, quiet 98% of the time, soft and forgiving. They’re super easy to modulate, and have incredible GRAB on reserve, at all times, when you go beyond 25% brake pedal input.

They’re not an ultra grabby pad until you put some heat onto them. Effectively dual personalities of pad, if you will. Not slamming your passengers into the dash and headrests unless it’s intentional.

Below ~20-25% input, they feel like a stock VW pad (not a bad thing on this car) when you’re just putzing around in traffic. Progressive brake response based on pedal input.

On the fast (triple digit speeds) canyon and backroad runs this morning, this was the first time I’ve EVER had full confidence in the brakes on one of my cars to truly reign me back to safe speeds within 1-2 seconds of brake pedal dispatch.

Normally I’m braking early based on fear, not knowing my “true brake zones” a lot of the time on the backroads and canyons.

This renewed confidence carried over on the highway trip home:

Clueless Texas drivers and transplants being s**t heads and causing near accidents every 100-500’ of travel. I knew my brakes would stop the car in record time, and I’d be good so long as no one behind me was following too closely.

Not a true track day review (yet!), but these are very promising initially.

They’re actually the true pad behavior I was wanting and expecting from the HPS 5.0 pads I purchased last year.

And worth a mention: these actually fit the caliper brackets better and tighter than the Hawks.

For context, this is the… Fourth set of brake pads I purchased for this car: not because I burn through them, but because there are very specific characteristics I’m looking for in pads and brake feel.

Anyway, here are some fun pics showing the ride heights from the 034 S3 springs, and the coal miner brake dust from the “save-a-goat” performance brakes from PSB.

Let me know if you guys have any questions.

First pics are the car cleaned and prepped.

Last pics show the brake dust if you zoom in. It rinsed off super easily with a hose and water.

I think cleaning and coating the wheels with OptiCoat or a sealant would make this even easier to manage.

I’ll deal with brake dust if it means having this type of Brembo-esque stopping power on hand!

 

[Jmitchell4873]

I'm not sure how I missed this thread, but there was a lot of good info about pad choices in here.

Just an FYI: I have the Tenhulzen toe plates (also have the guage to [roughly] set camber.

Hopefully the powerstops continue to work well. It would be tough to beat their price if they are decently durable.

 

[krs]

I didn’t know Texas had canyons.

Learn something new everyday.

 

[GoatAutomotive]

I didn’t know Texas had canyons.

Learn something new everyday.

Fun YouTube and Google searches:

“Texas Three Sisters run”
(Our most epic and well kept secret in the deep hill country)

“Lime Creek Rd. Fast drive”

The former is some amazing sweepers and curves that conjoin (almost 100+ miles long) 3 different roads sequentially named, that are carved into the sides of mini mountains (our hill country) and limestone canyons. It’s a perennial favorite for bikers and car enthusiasts, out northeast of San Antonio.

The latter is a tight, dangerous (if you go at the wrong time) canyon road carved into the upper level of limestone that drops down to Lake Travis, about 20 minutes from downtown Austin in the NW part of town.

The videos don’t capture its true nature:

One side of the road has treacherous cliffs and drop offs, no shoulders on either side, and lots of blind corners.

I’ve run it since 2007 kn multiple vehicles, and I’ve never once “not respected it” for how things can go wrong if you aren’t planning your braking zones properly. It’s like a pet rattlesnake: amazing, but it’ll bite ya in a moment’s notice if you don’t pay attention.

And lastly, if we’re literal, we also have the Palo Duro Canyon, a HUGE monstrosity up north near Amarillo that is a Mecca for Jeeps and 4x4s to go wheeling in.

 

[tigeo]

Track Day Spec pads initial review:

TDS pads were PHENOMENAL today on the canyon runs. I bedded them in late last night, then drove with them this morning.

So far I would compare them to a factory BMW M pad, or perhaps the Brembo pads that come on the Camaro SS1LE and ZL1 that are designed for street and beginner track duty…the ones with 20 pistons all around?

Dusty, quiet 98% of the time, soft and forgiving. They’re super easy to modulate, and have incredible GRAB on reserve, at all times, when you go beyond 25% brake pedal input.

They’re not an ultra grabby pad until you put some heat onto them. Effectively dual personalities of pad, if you will. Not slamming your passengers into the dash and headrests unless it’s intentional.

Below ~20-25% input, they feel like a stock VW pad (not a bad thing on this car) when you’re just putzing around in traffic. Progressive brake response based on pedal input.

On the fast (triple digit speeds) canyon and backroad runs this morning, this was the first time I’ve EVER had full confidence in the brakes on one of my cars to truly reign me back to safe speeds within 1-2 seconds of brake pedal dispatch.

Normally I’m braking early based on fear, not knowing my “true brake zones” a lot of the time on the backroads and canyons.

This renewed confidence carried over on the highway trip home:

Clueless Texas drivers and transplants being s**t heads and causing near accidents every 100-500’ of travel. I knew my brakes would stop the car in record time, and I’d be good so long as no one behind me was following too closely.

Not a true track day review (yet!), but these are very promising initially.

They’re actually the true pad behavior I was wanting and expecting from the HPS 5.0 pads I purchased last year.

And worth a mention: these actually fit the caliper brackets better and tighter than the Hawks.

For context, this is the… Fourth set of brake pads I purchased for this car: not because I burn through them, but because there are very specific characteristics I’m looking for in pads and brake feel.

Anyway, here are some fun pics showing the ride heights from the 034 S3 springs, and the coal miner brake dust from the “save-a-goat” performance brakes from PSB.

Let me know if you guys have any questions.

First pics are the car cleaned and prepped.

Last pics show the brake dust if you zoom in. It rinsed off super easily with a hose and water.

I think cleaning and coating the wheels with OptiCoat or a sealant would make this even easier to manage.

I’ll deal with brake dust if it means having this type of Brembo-esque stopping power on hand!

Not sure of the details with those w/r to torque/fade temp/etc. but I'm sure they are on the milder end of the spectrum. To me, these are the kind of pads most folks that have modded MK7s should run full-time/street. I'm was up at Wookies last week and so many have brake fade issues and want bigger brakes - I always tell them just get pads (like this, Yellows, whatever brand you like etc. on street are killer for "spirited" driving). Hope they work out on track for you, sure they will! V. few people have actually tried a "real" pad b/c they don't want the dust on those car-show wheels they have but they are really missing out on MUCH more confident braking.

Edit. Found a post saying PS says 932 deg F for these. To put that in perspective, EBC Yellows are 900 and blues are 1000 so similar.

There are also these Dynamic Friction track pads they sell on Rock Auto that are another budget option:

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog...rged,3442079,brake+&+wheel+hub,brake+pad,1684

 

[GoatAutomotive]

Not sure of the details with those w/r to torque/fade temp/etc. but I'm sure they are on the milder end of the spectrum. To me, these are the kind of pads most folks that have modded MK7s should run full-time/street. I'm was up at Wookies last week and so many have brake fade issues and want bigger brakes - I always tell them just get pads (like this, Yellows, whatever brand you like etc. on street are killer for "spirited" driving). Hope they work out on track for you, sure they will! V. few people have actually tried a "real" pad b/c they don't want the dust on those car-show wheels they have but they are really missing out on MUCH more confident braking.

Edit. Found a post saying PS says 932 deg F for these. To put that in perspective, EBC Yellows are 900 and blues are 1000 so similar.

There are also these Dynamic Friction track pads they sell on Rock Auto that are another budget option:

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog...rged,3442079,brake+&+wheel+hub,brake+pad,1684

Dynamic friction did not offer the front and rear for my specific application, but I definitely considered them.

I have a really strong working relationship with PowerStop over the years. Based on the price and the reviews from people in heavier cars like the BMW and Porsche community, and Corvettes, I had to give these a try.

Remember what I’ve stated in previous post: I don’t race on big fast tracks like COTA, which is famous for testing/destroying brakes.

HHR is not nearly as hard on brakes as other Circuits. With the improved design Audi RS3 front brake ducts upfront on my car, I doubt I will be pushing these pads hard enough to approach their fade point.

I think the biggest question is going to be wear and longevity, meaning “how long do these affordable pans last compared to something more premium like endless or Ferodo?”

For $200 and how well these pads grip, I’m happy to be the guinea pig!

And I also agree with your other statement where people think they need a BBK, and they actually just need a quality brake pad plus bed – in procedure.

These factory PP rotors are huge for 3150
lb car.

They’re almost a full inch larger than the 12.6 inch rotors that came on the front of my 3750 pound GTO when it was stock.

Listing that here only is a comparative illustration, for how people often underrate or under-consider the PP brakes on this car.

 

[Jmitchell4873]

Not sure of the details with those w/r to torque/fade temp/etc. but I'm sure they are on the milder end of the spectrum. To me, these are the kind of pads most folks that have modded MK7s should run full-time/street. I'm was up at Wookies last week and so many have brake fade issues and want bigger brakes - I always tell them just get pads (like this, Yellows, whatever brand you like etc. on street are killer for "spirited" driving). Hope they work out on track for you, sure they will! V. few people have actually tried a "real" pad b/c they don't want the dust on those car-show wheels they have but they are really missing out on MUCH more confident braking.

Edit. Found a post saying PS says 932 deg F for these. To put that in perspective, EBC Yellows are 900 and blues are 1000 so similar.

There are also these Dynamic Friction track pads they sell on Rock Auto that are another budget option:

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog...rged,3442079,brake+&+wheel+hub,brake+pad,1684

I wish there were more auto channels out there to objectively test pad materials to separate the BS. I wouldn't mind spending the extra money on Ferdo DS3-12.....but I don't think I need that heavy duty of a pad. I'm seriously considering the iSweep 3500 for the front and 3000 for the rear.

 

[GoatAutomotive]

According to this chart EBC blue is rated up to 1800 degrees in freedom units. I have zero data to back this up besides this screenshot. I wish there were more auto channels out there to objectively test pad materials to separate the BS. I wouldn't mind spending the extra money on Ferdo DS3-12.....but I don't think I need that heavy duty of a pad. I'm seriously considering the iSweep 3500 for the front and 3000 for the rear.
View attachment 303299

Someone in marketing f***ed that chart all up like a congressional budget. Those temp ratings are way off the reservation.

I've called EBC (and their dealers) directly and confirmed that, as one example, the Blue Stuff NDX is a ~900-1000* F pad.

UroTuning somehow listed the BS and BS NDX as having the same operating temps, ditto on the YS, which we all know is a less tolerant pad.

None of that checks out.

Correcting it here for anyone following this thread.

And I feel you on not needing a HD $400 track pad yet (Ferodo DS3.12), but I'm also grateful I have a used set here to try out on the street.