4/10/24 Track Night @ HHR - Stormy attempts a FWD lap record (how will it end?)

[GoatAutomotive]

Anyone interested in joining us Texans on 4/10? Details here:
https://www.tracknightinamerica.com/events/2005085-track-night-2024-harris-hill-raceway-april-10

Big things happening on the littlest Storm Trooper in the next 7-10 days. Lots of car prep, wicked parts orders, and ambitious choices/gambles.


4/7/24 Update: This thread is starting to swell up like a Texan's belly on BBQ Sundays.

Here is a quick legend of the most significant posts regarding track prep, brake and suspension upgrades for 2024 on the shop GTI:

Posts # 1, 13, 14, 18, 21, 24-25, 32-33, 37, 42-43

Page 5, things get exciting, then heart-breaking. Must-see TV. Grab wine and popcorn, maybe some tissues.

Page 6, post #78: full rundown of everything that worked, and what tanked like the Oceangate Titan with Rosie O'Donnell aboard.​

Pending for 4/8-4/9:
-DT is replacing a wheel they damaged under warranty
-Verdict on new suspension and brake setup geared for track and serious street work.
-Caveman mechanic learns to use newer GoPro camera technology and lap timer software.

S**t's gettin real!


Original post:

After 6-8 months of intense research and scrutiny, plus some frustrating control arm drama last year, here's what's going on for testing and calibration this week:

-034 Motorsports aluminum front LCAs w/camber adjustment (scored on sale 10/2023 from FCP Euro)

-034 Motorsports Audi S3 Dynamic springs (for non-MR models)...spring rates are 310/400lbs/in F/R (2nd hand, excellent condition, $125 + shipping via FBMP)

-Custom deadset kit for front subframe I made using aluminum collars and ARP hardware (all new, sourced online late last year)

-Dedicated 18x8.5" Konig Hypergram track wheels (17lbs) wrapped in chubby-loving Kumho V730 200TW endurance tires (new this past week - woot!)

-Some type of splash shield up front for improved aero and a cleaner engine bay (my car never came with a splash shield, kind of disappointed at this stage)

-Reinstalling factory TIP since we've now learned that the larger aftermarket units cause issues with the OE PCV function under hard braking and WOT transitions.

-Same braking setup as last year: Factory PP grippers, Hawk HPS 5.0 pads, high carbon rotors, RS3 ducts + high temp fluid
...(HHR isn't too hard on brakes compared to COTA, VIR, etc)


If I can somehow squeeze it in...a fresh detail and coat of sealant since it's now been 9 months since the last detail and paint correction.


GOALS: Best lap on a wounded setup with tired PS4S street tires last year was 1:33.7, running HHR in CW configuration. Decent, but lots of room for improvement.

This was 10 seconds faster than where I started on the 3/15/23 track day, when I was coming off a dusty 8-yr hiatus from racing. It was definitely an accomplishment at the time.

Improvements came from refining the suspension, brakes, and my driving technique. Yahoo!


This year I'm gunning for a 1:30 FLAT, thanks to the above upgrades + further improved driving. This would put us in the front of the intermediate group near some very nice premium sports cars. The other hope is these V730 tires will allow me to run harder and more consistently the entire 15 minute session.

For reference, anything near ~1:31 CW in a door slammer on street tires is pretty quick at HHR.

Here's a sample vid of an M235i with very minor mods and a solid driver ham fisting it around:

Here are some posted lap times on HHR's website to give you an idea how different cars fare on this course: https://lapmeta.com/en/track/variation/61

Let's see what fun lessons I learn this go-round!

Thanks for reading and following along.

 

[tigeo]

The Hawk pads...why use a street pad here for track? A set of proper track compound pads (pick your brand) should be on your car for this and will improve braking confidence regardless of track. Brake hard and late!

 

[GoatAutomotive]

The Hawk pads...why use a street pad here for track? A set of proper track compound pads (pick your brand) should be on your car for this and will improve braking confidence regardless of track. Brake hard and late!

I agree, it my budget is tapped right now…

Race pads and rotors would be $600-700 minimum.

Edit: $700 just for pads, and this is with DS2500 rears instead of the ($100 extra) DS1.11 that might pair better with the strong biting DS3.12 fronts:

https://speedfreaksusa.com/

 

[tigeo]

I agree, it my budget is tapped right now…

Race pads and rotors would be $600-700 minimum.

Edit: $700 just for pads, and this is with DS2500 rears instead of the ($100 extra) DS1.11 that might pair better with the strong biting DS3.12 fronts:

https://speedfreaksusa.com/
View attachment 301693

You can get front track compound pads for ~$200 and no real reason to get a separate set of rotors...GLoc/Carbotech...the EBC RP-X I run are fantastic and only about $225 with the typical coupon codes you can find online for buybrakes.com. DS2500 up front would be better than those Hawks. Whatever is in the back is fine.

 

[GoatAutomotive]

You can get front track compound pads for ~$200 and no real reason to get a separate set of rotors...GLoc/Carbotech...the EBC RP-X I run are fantastic and only about $225 with the typical coupon codes you can find online for buybrakes.com. DS2500 up front would be better than those Hawks. Whatever is in the back is fine.

My fear has been upsetting the brake bias by running strong biting pads up front and performance street pads in the rear. I want all 4 corners having comparable mu and brake torque to prevent unnecessary nose dive in hard brake zones.

I did some searching yesterday after your post into EBC Yellows and Blues (no need for comment, I know better now)...Carbotech XP10s and 12s, and even the DS2500. I read your write up on the EBC pads you've run as well.

Selection straight SUCKS for these PP brakes. I can get fronts or rears from one vendor, but not both, unless I'm ordering something super basic like Ferodo DS2500s.

If I'm doing a dedicated track pad, the DS3.12 is the smartest option, but I would run dedicated rotors with those pads as well to prevent damage to my street rotors, excessive pad transfer of different compounds, etc. Thats $550-580 just for the front DS3.12 pads on sale + rotors + shipping.

$317 for Carbotech XP10, $330 for XP12, and they admit in their parts description that the pads move around inside the caliper:

https://discoveryparts.com/products...ont-caliper-brake-pads?variant=43560842395867

I believe it was @DerHase and a few other members who had issues with these pads.

Here is HHR's map again for analysis:

Only 3 hard brake zones where V-max is 95-105mph, down to 40-45mph. That's going into turns 4, 7 and 10.

Think the HPS 5.0s won't take it?...

 

[GoatAutomotive]

EDIT: found the Carbotech nightmare. My sincere sympathies for the fella who went through this horse s**t experience on a $330 set of performance brake pads!

https://www.golfmk7.com/forums/inde...xp10-fitment-issues-2019-mk7-5-golf-r.423265/

 

[tigeo]

EDIT: found the Carbotech nightmare. My sincere sympathies for the fella who went through this horse s**t experience on a $330 set of performance brake pads!

https://www.golfmk7.com/forums/inde...xp10-fitment-issues-2019-mk7-5-golf-r.423265/

My setup is EBC RP-X in front, Bluestuff NDX out back, Mu are close, has fantastic feel. I spend $330 all-in for this setup from buybrakes.com. I don't bother with rotors, I swap the pads in/out (fronts only...just leave the rears in all the time) for track events and maybe a week on either side.

 

[GoatAutomotive]

My setup is EBC RP-X in front, Bluestuff NDX out back, Mu are close, has fantastic feel. I spend $330 all-in for this setup from buybrakes.com. I don't bother with rotors, I swap the pads in/out (fronts only...just leave the rears in all the time) for track events and maybe a week on either side.

Just that website alone is helpful! 🫡

Soooo many different brake pad supply places online and very few of them stock a quality front and rear pad for our PP MQBs.

 

[GoatAutomotive]

Good stuff here from our favorite wagon-flogging geologist…

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/ebc-rp-1-track-pads-what-do-you-use-for-hpde.372255/

 

[kep]

Having brakes that can withstand track heat is more important than having perfect balance. I run RSL29 front pads, which are a medium friction endurance pad

If your front pads start to fade, it will shift the bias rearwards, making the car looser than desired.

 

[tigeo]

I have messed with several pads and did note when my rears (EBC Bluestuff NDX) had a higher Mu than my fronts (EBC RP-1) it was a little unsettled during hard braking into T1 at VIR so 135 down to about 50 or so (?). When I ran the EBC RP-X which has a more matched/slightly higher Mu than the BSNDX, it was well sorted.

 

[GoatAutomotive]

I have messed with several pads and did note when my rears (EBC Bluestuff NDX) had a higher Mu than my fronts (EBC RP-1) it was a little unsettled during hard braking into T1 at VIR so 135 down to about 50 or so (?). When I ran the EBC RP-X which has a more matched/slightly higher Mu than the BSNDX, it was well sorted.

Thank you! I have no less than 20hrs now researching ALL track day brake pads from 10 different manufacturers, and what you said about the RPX checks out 100%.

RP1 would be great with a milder rear pad like a DS2500 or even my Hawk HPS 5.0s

RPX have near universal praise from folks with bigger and heavier cars, as well as exotics from Europe.

I’m looking at $245-ish for the front set and $98-ish for rear EBC BS NDX before any discounts or coupon codes. That’s less than what just the front DS3.12s cost!

I also watched a ton of videos from you and Derhase on VIR and I paid close attention to tour V-maxes and braking distances. Impressive stuff!

 

[GoatAutomotive]

4/1 update: it’s been more stressful than a short notice wedding planning over here, but I’m knocking out objectives!

HUGE thanks to @krs and @DerHase for stepping up and setting me up with some track gear to try out.

On its way to me:
Autosport Labs RaceCapture/Track MK2

GoPro Hero 6 Black

Lots of supporting accessories

Ferodo DS3.12 front pads for me to try out*

High carbon, coated front rotors as track rotors “just in case”

*I think they’re gonna be sketchy with rear HPS pads from a poor brake bias, but I’m grateful at the chance to try them out on the street for a couple days to get a feel for their behavior.

Also ordered:

GoPro mounts for helmet

GP foam windscreens

Full coverage front splash shield for MQB + hardware (cheap aero and cleaner engine bay)

8Y RS3 revised (larger) brake cooling ducts to adapt to my 034 aluminum LCAs (order pending response from vendor)

Motul RB600 x 2 500mL bottles @17/ea

Fresh Konig wheel under warranty, because DT tech damaged one during mount and balance

There’s likely more, but this is all I can think of. Everything else is parts awaiting install.

My goal is to have a good helmet cam, lap timer and GPS based software such as Track Addict or RaceChrono Pro, plus an additional camera mounted on the RF driver door to see the track, corners and wheel/tire movement. I’ve always loved that angle!

Example here (start at 10:25 for the on track camera angles):

 

[GoatAutomotive]

With everything installed that is available before 4/9, I’m likely going to give the HPS 5.0 pads one more go, only because I can’t get EBC pads in time for the event, and they have a stupid long brake in period needed before they truly bed in.

I’ll see how the HPS do with the better fluid and upgraded cooling ducts.

I reiterate that HHR is NOT hard on brakes until you try and track during the summer months when ambient temps are 90+*F and higher.

It has 3 hard brake zones, and they’re spaced fairly far apart relative to the track length, giving the brakes a good 15-20 seconds of cooldown before the next application.

Each time is only 95-105mph down to 45mph, and trail braking is both possible and encouraged for executing turn 4 (the carousel).

Turns 7 and 10 are f**-all hard right handers, 7 being off camber and a bit choppy like the editing in a Marvel movie.

7 and 10 are basically 180* tank slappers.

Anyway, I want to find the safe limits of these pads for one event before the weather gets hotter.

Will likely move to an RPX front and BlueStuff rear combo for May, just to keep the HPS pads on street duty where they belong, and so I can enjoy later braking and faster laps on the race pads.

If anyone is wondering, I’m absolutely bolting the Powerstop Z23s back on there for the off season. Low dust, and they had the same modest bite and progression as the HPS.

HPS 5.0s have treated me well on previous track days, but are underwhelming relative to expectations for higher Mu and better bite.

They did so much better on my customer’s 2017 FoST, but we have different MCs and brake assistance systems, so it’s s to s.

Sharing here in case folks are debating a $60-70 set of front ceramics versus the $120+ Hawk brand.

Neither are appropriate for track work at intermediate levels and above, I know!

But great street pads with manageable dust levels and mostly silent.

 

[tigeo]

Thank you! I have no less than 20hrs now researching ALL track day brake pads from 10 different manufacturers, and what you said about the RPX checks out 100%.

RP1 would be great with a milder rear pad like a DS2500 or even my Hawk HPS 5.0s

RPX have near universal praise from folks with bigger and heavier cars, as well as exotics from Europe.

I’m looking at $245-ish for the front set and $98-ish for rear EBC BS NDX before any discounts or coupon codes. That’s less than what just the front DS3.12s cost!

I also watched a ton of videos from you and Derhase on VIR and I paid close attention to tour V-maxes and braking distances. Impressive stuff!

But as DerHase has show the 3.12s while $$$ will also last much longer than the RPX...however you guys are also in GTIs which are lighter than my awd wagon.