2023-2024 MQB Suspension Rundown (street & track setup)

[GoatAutomotive]

I have the exact same wheel gap on my mk7 R as that mk7.5.

The Mk7 R is only 5mm lower than a GTI.

The Mk7.5 R uses a different set of springs that sit 10m lower than the previous Golf R, with a stiffer front spring rate (216lbs/in VW 175-180), for a total of 15mm ride height reduction compared to standard GTI.

Yes, this final amount will vary a few mm depending on manual VW DSG trans.

You don’t have to believe me. I’m just sharing the results of an entire year combing the parts catalogs, and I’ve shown what works well and what doesn’t.

That’s the goal of the forums: to share experiences and information, in order to help others with their build or repair paths.

 

[GoatAutomotive]

https://www.goapr.com/products/suspension/spring/parts/SUS00014

More spring data with ride heights can be found here confirming my own findings and experience.

 

[Greg_mk7]

The Mk7 R is only 5mm lower than a GTI.

The Mk7.5 R uses a different set of springs that sit 10m lower than the previous Golf R, with a stiffer front spring rate (216lbs/in VW 175-180), for a total of 15mm ride height reduction compared to standard GTI.

Yes, this final amount will vary a few mm depending on manual VW DSG trans.

You don’t have to believe me. I’m just sharing the results of an entire year combing the parts catalogs, and I’ve shown what works well and what doesn’t.

That’s the goal of the forums: to share experiences and information, in order to help others with their build or repair paths.

No I have a mk7 R. Never heard or seen anywhere stating that the springs are different between mk7 and mk7.5. Also I’ve literally had them both side by side. They are the same part number and same color combo. Can you please share your evidence where you found this? Like the parts catalog your refering to. Every vw parts catalog ive seen says they are the same. Also mk7 R front springs were never 175-180 inch/lbs in the front, those are gti spring rates and maybe that’s really what youre referring too or have compared with the mk7.5R.

 

[Greg_mk7]

https://www.goapr.com/products/suspension/spring/parts/SUS00014

More spring data with ride heights can be found here confirming my own findings and experience.

That doesn’t confirm anything, it just states that apr measured dcc mk7.5 R springs at 216 in/lbs. where does it say that mk7R ones are different?
All it shows is that they used a mk7.5 R for reference.

 

[TheBlondeFella]

...My response (grab a snack, a drink and your "readers if you're Gen X and older):​

...Sway bars: I wouldn't recommend touching the sways unless you're prepared to do both front and rear. The chassis balance of a rear-only [thicker] SB car feels terrible when actually driven above 6/10ths.

The front of the car flops in hard cornering and loses valuable camber, while the rear tries to snap loose and drift. On 2-lane roads with no shoulders, this is both dangerous and terrifying. On track days it means destroying the outer shoulders of the tires and losing big $$$.

I have to question this part where you mention only to upgrade the rear ARB.
Uprating just the rear (H&R) makes a massive difference in the way an R handles, in a positive way.

I travel to the Nurburgring in Germany every year and an uprated rear ARB has made a big and positive difference in the way the car handles. There is no or very limited run off everywhere as well.
The car unsersteers way less than with the OE ARB and the overall handling experience is greatly improved.

 

[krs]

I have to question this part where you mention only to upgrade the front ARB.
Uprating just the rear (H&R) makes a massive difference in the way an R handles, in a positive way.

I travel to the Nurburgring in Germany every year and an uprated rear ARB has made a big and positive difference in the way the car handles. There is no limited run off anywhere as well.
The car unsersteers way less than with the OE ARB and the overall handling experience is greatly improved. There is no limited run off anywhere as well.

Just to clarify, you are comparing an R with a GTI? Do you think there’s differences in that platform in general, to where one might perform differently than the other?

 

[TheBlondeFella]

Just to clarify, you are comparing an R with a GTI? Do you think there’s differences in that platform in general, to where one might perform differently than the other?

100%, although the cars are very similar the R and the Gti do handle completely differently. The GTi is more lively and a better track car in the dry without a doubt in the right hands.
I rented a Mk7 Gti lightly prepared but dedicated track car at the Ring this year due to a brake failure in my car on lap 2 (as a result of very poor pad choice on my part) and struggled with the amount or understeer even a lightly track prepped car was producing compared to the R.

 

[Greg_mk7]

100%, although the cars are very similar the R and the Gti do handle completely differently. The GTi is more lively and a better track car in the dry without a doubt in the right hands.
I rented a Mk7 Gti lightly prepared but dedicated track car at the Ring this year due to a brake failure in my car on lap 2 (as a result of very poor pad choice on my part) and struggled with the amount or understeer even a lightly track prepped car was producing compared to the R.

I would disagree with that. Ive had both cars. Yes the gti feels more “tossable”or “lively”steering wise. Both terms of which are subjective by the way. All other objective measures including the many vids and test reviews where they put the gti and the R on track vs one another, the R always does better lap times and not by a little. Also the engine is better equipped to handle abuse than the gti.

 

[GoatAutomotive]

I have to question this part where you mention only to upgrade the front ARB.
Uprating just the rear (H&R) makes a massive difference in the way an R handles, in a positive way.

I travel to the Nurburgring in Germany every year and an uprated rear ARB has made a big and positive difference in the way the car handles. There is no limited run off anywhere as well.
The car unsersteers way less than with the OE ARB and the overall handling experience is greatly improved. There is no limited run off anywhere as well.

Seems to be a misunderstanding. If you revisit my post, I don't speak of running "only a front sway bar upgrade". I advised against doing the rear only, and I emphasized the need to do both to keep things balanced.

When I ran just the 25mm upgrades RSB, it helped on the street, but wasn't suited for track days on a circuit. The front plowed and flopped, losing static camber in corners; the rear would easily dance and slide.

Upgrading the front sway to match (28mm front H&R, in my case) fixed all of this, and made the car feel planted in all conditions.

Hope this clarifies.

 

[GoatAutomotive]

Just to clarify, you are comparing an R with a GTI? Do you think there’s differences in that platform in general, to where one might perform differently than the other?

Kris beat me to it. I revisited the Nurburgring fella's comment and saw that he is running an R, which has a more balanced weight distribution than a GTI, but at the detriment of an additional 150-200lbs in curb weight. The R will behave quite differently [from a GTI] when driven at and above 6/10ths.

My original letter to the customer (first page in this thread) was in regards to tuning a GTI, using parts from other MQB platforms to truly dial it all in.

Somehow it has only taken 2 people (not you, @krs) to turn parts of an informative thread into a p*ssing match of Twitter-like proportions.



Hopefully the other 800 readers and viewers [thus far] will find something helpful in it.

 

[GoatAutomotive]

100%, although the cars are very similar the R and the Gti do handle completely differently. The GTi is more lively and a better track car in the dry without a doubt in the right hands.
I rented a Mk7 Gti lightly prepared but dedicated track car at the Ring this year due to a brake failure in my car on lap 2 (as a result of very poor pad choice on my part) and struggled with the amount or understeer even a lightly track prepped car was producing compared to the R.

I believe this completely. In the case of my car, it has had fewer understeer issues and far more lost time having to "wait" to get back on the power post-apex in some places.

This is speaking for my newer setup, however. When I was stuck on street tires (Michelin PS4S in a 245/40R18) with an incomplete suspension setup (stock dampers, not enough camber, etc), it was understeer city...

I do envy the R's talents for putting the power down. Just didn't have the $10k to cover the price delta when I bought my egg back in 10/2017.

 

[GoatAutomotive]

That doesn’t confirm anything, it just states that apr measured dcc mk7.5 R springs at 216 in/lbs. where does it say that mk7R ones are different?
All it shows is that they used a mk7.5 R for reference.

Click the link and scroll DOWN. Past the pretty pictures.

It shows spring rates and ride heights for Mk7 and Mk7.5 cars, both GTI and R.

Doesn't get any plainer and more concise than this.

If you need more data than this, start testing springs for yourself (as I have done over the last 3 years).

Otherwise, please move on to other threads if you can't be constructive and helpful.

 

[Greg_mk7]

Click the link and scroll DOWN. Past the pretty pictures.

It shows spring rates and ride heights for Mk7 and Mk7.5 cars, both GTI and R.

Doesn't get any plainer and more concise than this.

If you need more data than this, start testing springs for yourself (as I have done over the last 3 years).

Otherwise, please move on to other threads if you can't be constructive and helpful.

 

[Greg_mk7]

I did look at the bottom past the “pretty pictures” where in this chart do you see mk7 R?

You had one user who has a mk7 r about to go buy mk7.5 springs for what would have been a waste. Im trying to be constructive and helpful as I wouldn’t want someone to go get parts based on speculation and not evidence. Like i said previously I’ve literally seen both springs side by side.

 

[ZERO815]

„A well kept secret is to use 2018-2019 Mk7.5 Golf R stock springs.“

Would you mind to share the spring part numbers and/or color codings?