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2022 Golf R - 315HP 310lb/ft TQ

GTIfan99

Autocross Champion
Location
FL
I think there are better odds of a CS/TCR GTI. At that point, you're just competing with the R. The issue with taking the R price even higher is that you're both tripping on Audi's territory, but also just moving so far out of normal VW pricing. I mean, they tried to take the Arteon up market and about 14 people bought one.

But that's what makes it so absurd. People would pay VW a premium to buy the car with a real front LSD. I guess when you're that big and sell so many bland suvs, us niche buyers don't matter.

But niche performance cars can be profitable, especially when based on an econobox.
 

jimlloyd40

Autocross Champion
Location
Phoenix
Car(s)
2018 SE DSG
But isn't that pretty much what APR+ is? Isn't APR sort of "blessed" by VW USA? I know the warranty is actually through APR, but it's still coverage, unlike any other tuning option.

This is how Dinan works with BMW, sort of a symbiotic relationship that allows tuning but retains warranty coverage through the partnership.
It's not blessed by VW USA. Just some dealers have it.
 

bentin

Autocross Champion
Location
Austin, TX
Car(s)
2018 GTI SE
It's not blessed by VW USA. Just some dealers have it.
So at least kinda blessed. It's not like we can just choose a tuner at the dealer, it's either APR or nothing. I do think Dinan is more connected to BMW USA than APR is, but there's still a similar relationship.
 

bentin

Autocross Champion
Location
Austin, TX
Car(s)
2018 GTI SE
But that's what makes it so absurd. People would pay VW a premium to buy the car with a real front LSD. I guess when you're that big and sell so many bland suvs, us niche buyers don't matter.

But niche performance cars can be profitable, especially when based on an econobox.
But you're asking for things in a car that's already cheaper than it's near clone at the big brother's shop. Audi isn't going to let VW show them up that badly. It appears that through some sort of witchcraft, the Mk8 R is going to have more power than the S3, at least for the first year, and I'd bet that is causing lots of tears at Audi USA already. I'd guess that in year 2 of the S3, it gets the same motor.

It's this sort of logic that keeps the Cayman GT4 from getting the full boat GT3 motor, that sort of thing would expose that the Cayman is more capable than the 911, and we can't have that. Same goes for VW and Audi, you're just not going to get options at VW that aren't available at Audi, unless it's just a slower, crusty option, like a third pedal, that's fair game (thankfully or me.)
 

wide

Go Kart Newbie
Location
Sweden
Car(s)
Mk8 R and Mk7.5 GTI
You have some fun waiting for you overthere! ;)... Got New Wheels for mine today, but don´t worry i will have My Black Estorils for Trackuse ;)

What do you think of my New Toy :love:

 

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MonkeyMD

Autocross Champion
You have some fun waiting for you overthere! ;)... Got New Wheels for mine today, but don´t worry i will have My Black Estorils for Trackuse ;)

What do you think of my New Toy :love:

Nice. Love the blue accents
 

Fastlax16

Drag Racing Champion
Location
Chitown
Car(s)
2019 DBP R
So at least kinda blessed. It's not like we can just choose a tuner at the dealer, it's either APR or nothing. I do think Dinan is more connected to BMW USA than APR is, but there's still a similar relationship.
Not blessed at all. The dealerships are independent businesses, if they starting selling Nathan's hot dogs in the waiting area it wouldn't be because Nathan's hot dogs are blessed by vwusa. There are dealers that sell other tunes. I got a unitronic tune on my mk6 through my dealer, vwusa doesn't dictate what products dealers can/can't sell.
 

bentin

Autocross Champion
Location
Austin, TX
Car(s)
2018 GTI SE
Not blessed at all. The dealerships are independent businesses, if they starting selling Nathan's hot dogs in the waiting area it wouldn't be because Nathan's hot dogs are blessed by vwusa. There are dealers that sell other tunes. I got a unitronic tune on my mk6 through my dealer, vwusa doesn't dictate what products dealers can/can't sell.
Oh come on, I'm not an APR person, but they are very much associated with VW dealers in a way that Unitronic, EQT or any other tuner is not. And they offer the Plus tune that at least provides their coverage in place of the factory warranty. If you don't see how that's different and not like a hot dog, then you're just being obstinate.
 

jimlloyd40

Autocross Champion
Location
Phoenix
Car(s)
2018 SE DSG
Not blessed at all. The dealerships are independent businesses, if they starting selling Nathan's hot dogs in the waiting area it wouldn't be because Nathan's hot dogs are blessed by vwusa. There are dealers that sell other tunes. I got a unitronic tune on my mk6 through my dealer, vwusa doesn't dictate what products dealers can/can't sell.
You're right. The dealers that choose to sell APR tunes do so because the car owner can't flash a tune by himself like you can with a Cobb Access Port.
 

bentin

Autocross Champion
Location
Austin, TX
Car(s)
2018 GTI SE
You're right. The dealers that choose to sell APR tunes do so because the car owner can't flash a tune by himself like you can with a Cobb Access Port.
Good point, it's an additional revenue stream, and likely a reason that APR will never move away from the archaic model. Why would you buy a Cobb tune from a dealer, and why would a dealer sell one?
 

Dog Dad Wagon

Autocross Champion
Location
Innnnn West Philadelphia...
Car(s)
19 Alltrack 6MT
Oh come on, I'm not an APR person, but they are very much associated with VW dealers in a way that Unitronic, EQT or any other tuner is not. And they offer the Plus tune that at least provides their coverage in place of the factory warranty. If you don't see how that's different and not like a hot dog, then you're just being obstinate.

APR does not have the same type of OFFICIAL relationship with VW corporate that Dinan has w/ BMW.

Dealers in America are independent retailers of VW products. They can sell whatever other shit they want to sell - and they can make it seem like APR ~does~ have a “relationship” with VW if they want as that builds confidence in consumers that they’re not just fucking Their cars up.

APR Plus is in no way, shape, or form an officially recognized or approved “replacement” for the VW powertrain warranty.

by comparison, you literally buy a Dinan Tune/Dinan parts for your BMW at the BMW Parts Counter, and they ring you up in BMW’s corporate sales system for that Dinan product. The money goes thru BMW and BMW pays Dinan.

wirh APR Plus, the money goes straight to APR, and VW has nothing to do with it.
 

bentin

Autocross Champion
Location
Austin, TX
Car(s)
2018 GTI SE
APR does not have the same type of OFFICIAL relationship with VW corporate that Dinan has w/ BMW.

Dealers in America are independent retailers of VW products. They can sell whatever other shit they want to sell - and they can make it seem like APR ~does~ have a “relationship” with VW if they want as that builds confidence in consumers that they’re not just fucking Their cars up.

APR Plus is in no way, shape, or form an officially recognized or approved “replacement” for the VW powertrain warranty.

by comparison, you literally buy a Dinan Tune/Dinan parts for your BMW at the BMW Parts Counter, and they ring you up in BMW’s corporate sales system for that Dinan product. The money goes thru BMW and BMW pays Dinan.

wirh APR Plus, the money goes straight to APR, and VW has nothing to do with it.
But Dinan is doing exactly the same thing. If you buy a Dinan tuned BMW, they're taking on the powertrain warranty, BMW is no longer the provider for the powertrain coverage and if your shit goes sideways, they send their people to sort it out. Does the BMW dealer handle the front side of it? Mostly, but there have certainly been cases where Dinan places onus on the owner and BMW USA doesn't step in and magically fix things.

So how is that any different than what APR is doing? I don't have a dog in this fight as I don't have any interest in APR tunes, and I happen to think DInan is a crap product with decades of bad history. But they are supported by a dealer network (who I personally have a very low opinion of) in a very similar, if not identical way to how APR is supported by VW of USA dealers.

My point is that APR is the only VW tuner in the US who has broad support in the dealer network. I'm not sure if dealers in every state offer their tunes, but it's certainly a majority of them and that's a similarity to Dinan and BMW that I'm not sure any other brands really have outside of maybe Roush or Saleen and Ford.
 

jimlloyd40

Autocross Champion
Location
Phoenix
Car(s)
2018 SE DSG
But Dinan is doing exactly the same thing. If you buy a Dinan tuned BMW, they're taking on the powertrain warranty, BMW is no longer the provider for the powertrain coverage and if your shit goes sideways, they send their people to sort it out. Does the BMW dealer handle the front side of it? Mostly, but there have certainly been cases where Dinan places onus on the owner and BMW USA doesn't step in and magically fix things.

So how is that any different than what APR is doing? I don't have a dog in this fight as I don't have any interest in APR tunes, and I happen to think DInan is a crap product with decades of bad history. But they are supported by a dealer network (who I personally have a very low opinion of) in a very similar, if not identical way to how APR is supported by VW of USA dealers.

My point is that APR is the only VW tuner in the US who has broad support in the dealer network. I'm not sure if dealers in every state offer their tunes, but it's certainly a majority of them and that's a similarity to Dinan and BMW that I'm not sure any other brands really have outside of maybe Roush or Saleen and Ford.
If you have a failure with the APR + tune and APR refuses to cover it VW will not stand behind it like BMW will with Dinan.
 

bentin

Autocross Champion
Location
Austin, TX
Car(s)
2018 GTI SE
But
If you have a failure with the APR + tune and APR refuses to cover it VW will not stand behind it like BMW will with Dinan.
Have you heard of a case where BMW has stepped in where Dinan has not supported a case? I've been out of the BMW scene for a few years and maybe things have gotten better, but there have certainly been plenty of cases where Dinan didn't cover something and BMW didn't either. I recognize that DInan is tied in a little further to BMW USA than APR is to VW USA, but it's a slim difference and so close to the same situation that I'm not following the reticence to see them as at least both being fruits, even if we can't agree that they're the same exact fruit. Ultimately, I don't care as I have never used either brand and don't see a situation where I would.
 

Fastlax16

Drag Racing Champion
Location
Chitown
Car(s)
2019 DBP R
Oh come on, I'm not an APR person, but they are very much associated with VW dealers in a way that Unitronic, EQT or any other tuner is not. And they offer the Plus tune that at least provides their coverage in place of the factory warranty. If you don't see how that's different and not like a hot dog, then you're just being obstinate.

VW dealers =/= vwusa. If you don't like hot dogs, some dealers offer tint services. A dealer offering 3m tint doesn't mean 3m is associated with vwusa nor is vwusa warrantying the work. Zero difference between a dealer offering 3m tint or apr tunes. vwusa has absolutely zero to do with either relationship.
 
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