2019 G Street Nationals Dashboard

[xXDavidCXx]

I ran a big bar two seasons ago and did not notice any issues with the XDF.

 

[theDoktor]

One thing to keep in mind if you decide to go with the bigger front bar: ALL the fasteners you touch- sub-frame, ball joints/strut, sway bar, etc. are single use stretch-to-torque fasteners and MUST be replaced. A full set is not cheap and should be purchased from VW. I doubt that any dealer will stock these, so plan on ordering them.

 

[w124_karl]

^ Yep, went through that when I put the Konis on it. I'll be honest, the difficulty of replacing a front bar on one of these just as a test makes me reconsider my life choices.

Edit: on the other hand, I'd be able to have the subframe moved around some to try and squeeze some camber out of the car. Mine has nearly 0.

And I've been through the broken single-use fastener thing before. Back when I had my Focus, I didn't realize the strut mount bolts were single use. At the Bristol Champ Tour maybe in...2017? I had the right front loosen up a little. Bumpy site, I'll just tighten it. Ran the event and drove home. About a week later, the clunking was back. I tightened one of those same bolts maybe 1/8 of a turn, and POP! Out came the strut so I could drill what was left out of the mounts.

 

[w124_karl]

Also - I wonder if some bump stop changes would be worth pursuing.

Stock rear stop is 112mm long. And the stock front stop is 57mm.

 

[xXDavidCXx]

Also - I wonder if some bump stop changes would be worth pursuing.

Stock rear stop is 112mm long. And the stock front stop is 57mm.

Keep the rules in mind here:

13.5.D "A suspension bump stop is considered to be performing the function of a spring. Therefore, the compressed length of the shock at the initial point of contact with the bump stop may not be increased from the standard part, although the bump stop may be shortened. Bump stops installed externally and concentric with the shaft of a shock may be drilled out to fit a larger diameter shock shaft. Bump stops may be substituted provided they meet the length requirements and are in the same location as stock."

 

[w124_karl]

Absolutely. Like a lot of people on this thread I've been at this for a pretty long time. The CS and ES Miata crowds have been messing with bump stops for years.

I'm thinking if I do the front bar change, a stiffer rear bump stop package might help add some of the lost rear rate back. However, I don't know how close the top of the shock is to the bumpstop at static, stock ride height though. So it might not do much, or worse, a too-hard replacement bump stop could make the car really wild when it does make contact, and make the ESC even angrier than it already was.

Seems like a reasonably easy thing to test, though, since the rear shocks are pretty easy to remove even between heats at an event.

 

[theDoktor]

Absolutely. Like a lot of people on this thread I've been at this for a pretty long time. The CS and ES Miata crowds have been messing with bump stops for years.

I'm thinking if I do the front bar change, a stiffer rear bump stop package might help add some of the lost rear rate back. However, I don't know how close the top of the shock is to the bumpstop at static, stock ride height though. So it might not do much, or worse, a too-hard replacement bump stop could make the car really wild when it does make contact, and make the ESC even angrier than it already was.

Seems like a reasonably easy thing to test, though, since the rear shocks are pretty easy to remove even between heats at an event.

Except for my mastering the release of the plastic emissions container in the right wheelwell... Anybody got a simple way to release the clips that hold it in place that a moron like me can understand? The canister has to be removed to get to the third bolt of the upper shock mount on that side. Left side is easy-peasy.

I'm thinking that the original bump stop really doesn't want to be shortened, but it would be easy enough to check out.

 

[xXDavidCXx]

Except for my mastering the release of the plastic emissions container in the right wheelwell... Anybody got a simple way to release the clips that hold it in place that a moron like me can understand? The canister has to be removed to get to the third bolt of the upper shock mount on that side. Left side is easy-peasy.

I'm thinking that the original bump stop really doesn't want to be shortened, but it would be easy enough to check out.

There are a few bolts. Remove the inner fender liner, or at least pull it back towards the rear of the wheel well.

 

[w124_karl]

I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately and am still not sure I’ll go through with it. If the front bar idea is a dud, that’s going to be a bummer to undo all that work and just put the car back the way it was, and get it realigned too. Looks like my first test day would be last weekend in February. That leaves just a week and a half to make any changes before the Champ Tour at SGMP.

 

[RacingManiac]

I think for a GS trim where the stock balance is not really there to help rotating adding more front bar isn't gonna help even if it keeps the front camber in check more. Increase front bar also makes the inside front tire unloaded more which will hurt powerdown even with the VAQ in place. I get the idea of not killing rear grip to gain balance but adding front bar is killing grip on the end that needs it for turning and power. I get in the G-stock days the front bar thing was much more prevalent both being the only bar you could change and also you were on (sometimes) oversized Hoosiers. Making one fat Hoosier get up and working better was ultimately more beneficial but I don't think the 200TWs work like that...

I still differ with Strano on the setup with a big rear bar. He called me out on the podcast for it but I think we had enough ok results on my car before. I mean we are just hacks though so maybe we got lucky in our years running the car.

Also swapping rear bumpstops are not that easy unless you are planning to swap rear shocks(with the bumpstops) wholesale....undoing top shock nut is annoying in anycase...and I don't think we are anywhere rear sitting on the bumpstop enough most of the time on the rear....

 

[theDoktor]

I think for a GS trim where the stock balance is not really there to help rotating adding more front bar isn't gonna help even if it keeps the front camber in check more. Increase front bar also makes the inside front tire unloaded more which will hurt powerdown even with the VAQ in place. I get the idea of not killing rear grip to gain balance but adding front bar is killing grip on the end that needs it for turning and power. I get in the G-stock days the front bar thing was much more prevalent both being the only bar you could change and also you were on (sometimes) oversized Hoosiers. Making one fat Hoosier get up and working better was ultimately more beneficial but I don't think the 200TWs work like that...

I still differ with Strano on the setup with a big rear bar. He called me out on the podcast for it but I think we had enough ok results on my car before. I mean we are just hacks though so maybe we got lucky in our years running the car.

Also swapping rear bumpstops are not that easy unless you are planning to swap rear shocks(with the bumpstops) wholesale....undoing top shock nut is annoying in anycase...and I don't think we are anywhere rear sitting on the bumpstop enough most of the time on the rear....

Good points. Back in the G Stock & E Stock days I doubt the Phoenix Stahlflex & Yokohama A001R's we ran on had anywhere near the stick of the Hoosiers or even the 200TW tires we use today. I speak from first hand experience on both... What we didn't have was a rear bar (except for the GTI's)

 

[w124_karl]

As far as swapping bump stops goes, I wouldn’t be swapping them at the event. I mostly just meant they’re easier than the rears since the springs and shocks are separate.

I’ve decided to leave the car alone, and spend this money on a Racecapture instead. The truth is that my driving needs a whole lot more work than the car does - and when I inevitably trade this in on a BS Camaro or a CS Miata, I get to keep the data stuff.

 

[xXDavidCXx]

I think for a GS trim where the stock balance is not really there to help rotating adding more front bar isn't gonna help even if it keeps the front camber in check more. Increase front bar also makes the inside front tire unloaded more which will hurt powerdown even with the VAQ in place. I get the idea of not killing rear grip to gain balance but adding front bar is killing grip on the end that needs it for turning and power. I get in the G-stock days the front bar thing was much more prevalent both being the only bar you could change and also you were on (sometimes) oversized Hoosiers. Making one fat Hoosier get up and working better was ultimately more beneficial but I don't think the 200TWs work like that...

I still differ with Strano on the setup with a big rear bar. He called me out on the podcast for it but I think we had enough ok results on my car before. I mean we are just hacks though so maybe we got lucky in our years running the car.

Also swapping rear bumpstops are not that easy unless you are planning to swap rear shocks(with the bumpstops) wholesale....undoing top shock nut is annoying in anycase...and I don't think we are anywhere rear sitting on the bumpstop enough most of the time on the rear....

I think it's still worth investigating. Would just take one test&tune day.

 

[theDoktor]

I think it's still worth investigating. Would just take one test&tune day.

Agree! (Don't forget the cost of a replacement hardware set if it proves not acceptable)

 

[JackRabbitSLIM]

I’ve decided to leave the car alone, and spend this money on a Racecapture instead. The truth is that my driving needs a whole lot more work than the car does - and when I inevitably trade this in on a BS Camaro or a CS Miata, I get to keep the data stuff.

Getting the data you want might be harder than you think with a RaceCapture. Pretty sure you'll have to do some wizardry to get steering angle. Brake pressure might be possible but could be hard (not sure what people are doing for that).