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2019 G Street Nationals Dashboard

aroundomaha

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Nebraska
Nothing special on the alignment, I'll just list the setup in whole here:

  1. Maxed out front Camber(just from the assembly tolerance), ~0.8 deg
  2. 0 Front toe
  3. 0 Rear toe
  4. 1-1.5 deg rear camber(this is less sure on my part, I added rear camber through out its life and I wasn't sure where I ended up).
  5. Proparts DA front struts
  6. Strut set to max out front compression, no min reb(for dry, in the wet we add more front reb)
  7. Proparts single external(reb) adjustable rear shocks
  8. Rear shock normally set to max rear reb for dry concrete, for asphalt/lower grip/wet it can be anywhere from 1/2 to 1/4 of the full range away from full soft
  9. H&R 26mm RSB(stock endlinks)
  10. Enkei Fujin 17x7.5 Wheels(I ran I think 3 or 4mm spacers on the front to max out the 7mm offset allowance, not that I think it matters a whole lot.
  11. RE71R and BFGs, we settled on BFGs. 35PSI square most of the time, set right before we take a run, lower rear if the car is loose as a faster setup adjustment than rear shock changes(FYI on REs we run 32psi nominal)
  12. Stock brake pads, ATE Type 200 fluid

I turned this into an ordered list to ask about a couple of points. I'm a little confused about alignment. Knowing you had adjustable shocks (I'll be on stock) means your settings are different due to front/rear rebound. Do you have any thoughts about front and rear toe for someone on stock struts?

How did you get the .8 negative camber in the front? Loosing the strut bolts?
 

RacingManiac

Go Kart Champion
Location
MI
Just loosen everything and push the top in and trying to pull the bottom out and retighten, the .8 was from the measurement from when I get the car to aligned by a shop.

I don't think the alignment will be much different on stock dampers. If nothing else you want the car looser. I ran toe-out in the back in the beginning but the car is a bit too nervious. I also ran less rear camber before(between 0-0.5*) But again I think it made the car kinda nervous.
 

theDoktor

Go Kart Newbie
Location
Buffalo, NY area
Car(s)
2017 GTI Sport
Don't forget about the 3 bolts for the ball joint- loosen them as well and take advantage of that slop too.
 

aroundomaha

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Nebraska
H&R 26mm RSB(stock endlinks)
I daily my GTI and have had this RSB since last fall (and enjoyed it). Since the weather was nice I swapped out my stock Austins/Bridgestone RE97As for my 18" Enkei RPFs with RE71Rs (stock size). The rear felt way twitchier on this combo than stock and I even had the rear kick out a bit (surprised me).

Why would the rear be looser on RE71Rs? Stiffer sidewall? Pressures were at 35 front, 31 rear. The heavier wheels and all seasons have never shown any oversteer, even when I wanted it. My worry is that the lighter race set up may be more biased to oversteer than my current driving level merits. I'll find out for sure at next the April test and tune.

On the plus side I love the RPF1 wheels!
IMG_0559 (2).jpg
 

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RacingManiac

Go Kart Champion
Location
MI
In my experiences RE are pretty responsive vs pretty much anything else, which on autoX course it translates to a sharp response to inputs. On the street though it also means the car is way more likely to react to all the small inputs you might do to the wheel be it as intentional or not. Which means it can be more "busy" at the wheel. It has higher dependency to tire temp (even if it can work better from cold), on DD condition its unlikely for it to build enough tire temp especially in the rear. Couple those things together I can see if the car gets more tail happy on DD condition.

I don't DD on my autoX tires at all, both to prolong their life(2 drivers means I need to preserve and use them for as long as I can for times it matter). And also as they wear they get sketchier in the wet and cold...
 

aroundomaha

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Nebraska
In my experiences RE are pretty responsive vs pretty much anything else, which on autoX course it translates to a sharp response to inputs. On the street though it also means the car is way more likely to react to all the small inputs you might do to the wheel be it as intentional or not. Which means it can be more "busy" at the wheel. It has higher dependency to tire temp (even if it can work better from cold), on DD condition its unlikely for it to build enough tire temp especially in the rear. Couple those things together I can see if the car gets more tail happy on DD condition.

I don't DD on my autoX tires at all, both to prolong their life(2 drivers means I need to preserve and use them for as long as I can for times it matter). And also as they wear they get sketchier in the wet and cold...
Thanks. I was just a bit surprised on a rising sweeper coming out of a Mall when the rear said "howdy remember me?" I've never driven on UTQG 200 tires so maybe the combination of sidewall stiffness and quicker turn-in mean I was probably being stupid without realizing it. I have zero plans to run these tires daily as I need to get two seasons out of them if possible.

This is going to be fun. Darn it why can't April 4th get here already.
 

RacingManiac

Go Kart Champion
Location
MI
I assume also those are brand new? They normally need like one good heat cycle to come on properly. When brand new they usually feel more vague and not as grippy. Also one they are "broken in" they start to get REALLY loud. The tread pattern produces a very pronounced humming noise...

I hate driving on REs on the road also. Its pretty bad riding because of the stiffness and noisy as I mentioned...
 

aroundomaha

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Nebraska
I assume also those are brand new? They normally need like one good heat cycle to come on properly. When brand new they usually feel more vague and not as grippy. Also one they are "broken in" they start to get REALLY loud. The tread pattern produces a very pronounced humming noise...

They came with the used wheels. Two have less than a dozen runs, the other two are at about half tread. Yes, it sounded like I was driving a 4x4 truck down the road and the ride was harsh. A bit like driving over a singing bridge if you have ever experienced it.
 

theDoktor

Go Kart Newbie
Location
Buffalo, NY area
Car(s)
2017 GTI Sport
I daily my GTI and have had this RSB since last fall (and enjoyed it). Since the weather was nice I swapped out my stock Austins/Bridgestone RE97As for my 18" Enkei RPFs with RE71Rs (stock size). The rear felt way twitchier on this combo than stock and I even had the rear kick out a bit (surprised me).

Why would the rear be looser on RE71Rs? Stiffer sidewall? Pressures were at 35 front, 31 rear. The heavier wheels and all seasons have never shown any oversteer, even when I wanted it. My worry is that the lighter race set up may be more biased to oversteer than my current driving level merits. I'll find out for sure at next the April test and tune.

On the plus side I love the RPF1 wheels!
View attachment 166330

What year is & model is yours? Mine is also Tornado Red, but a 2017 Sport with a custom pinstripe package. I see a couple of trim differences around the front. And I really like the silver RFP1's on it. I'm waiting for the group buy on 17x8.5 Apex wheels to happen for my street wheels. The silver wheels on your car have me reconsidering my choice of what Apex calls "Ultra Black". It'll be a while before I consider posting any photos of mine, being a DD in Buffalo during the winter. Looks kinda nasty right now.
Not sure why the RE-71's are causing your car to be twitchy. First thing I'd modify would be tire pressures,- try them equal F&R. Next up would alignment. Start with a slight amount of toe-in & -1.8 degrees of negative camber on the back. 0 to slight toe-out in the front and as much negative camber as you can get. I'm running 215/45-17 RE-71's on the rear & 45/40-17 on the front, all on silver 17x7.5 Enkei Fujin rims and the rear is nicely planted. Currently on stock struts- waiting until spring to install Koni yellows.
 

aroundomaha

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Nebraska
What year is & model is yours? Mine is also Tornado Red, but a 2017 Sport with a custom pinstripe package. I see a couple of trim differences around the front. And I really like the silver RFP1's on it.
Mine is an S, so it lacks the limited slip differential (and I'm jealous). Maybe it is my age but I like silver against the red. After a couple of days of pondering it, my guess is that the car isn't twitchier but I'm not used to the quicker turn-in and response.

Since I don't have an LSD and my driving needs improvement, I'll probably cap my car prep with wheels/tires/RSB aside from Typ 200 brake fluid and an alignment.
 
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w124_karl

Ready to race!
Location
NC
@theDoktor and I have been talking about GS setups over in the Suspension Modeling thread, so rather than me continuing to clutter that up with GS setup ideas, we figured maybe let's bring that discussion here. It's as near to a GS specific thread as I see.

It looks likely that I'll at least run my '19 Rabbit Edition in GS again this year, at least for the first few months. If that turns out true, I'm going to try a big front sway bar, putting the stock rear back on, to see if flattening the front end will add some grip, by keeping the car off the sidewalls of the tire. :)

I've been doing like everyone else, and running a big rear bar and 0 toe to try to get the car to rotate. But, I've been wondering for a while if that's the wrong approach, because it's taking grip away from an end of the car, rather than (hopefully) adding grip to the end of the car that isn't working. It might not be as fun to drive, but maybe it'll be faster.

Anyone had a big front bar on theirs? Any experience with how the VAQ diff behaves? It "seems like it should be fine," but I'd still welcome input from anyone who's been down this road already.

The car now has Konis on it, and I'm guessing I'll try Falkens first. I drove SSC a few times last year and the new Falken is really good. Far better than the 615.
 
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theDoktor

Go Kart Newbie
Location
Buffalo, NY area
Car(s)
2017 GTI Sport
@theDoktor and I have been talking about GS setups over in the Suspension Modeling thread, so rather than me continuing to clutter that up with GS setup ideas, we figured maybe let's bring that discussion here. It's as near to a GS specific thread as I see.

It looks likely that I'll at least run my '19 Rabbit Edition in GS again this year, at least for the first few months. If that turns out true, I'm going to try a big front sway bar, putting the stock rear back on, to see if flattening the front end will add some grip, by keeping the car off the sidewalls of the tire. :)

I've been doing like everyone else, and running a big rear bar and 0 toe to try to get the car to rotate. But, I've been wondering for a while if that's the wrong approach, because it's taking grip away from an end of the car, rather than (hopefully) adding grip to the end of the car that isn't working. It might not be as fun to drive, but maybe it'll be faster.

Anyone had a big front bar on theirs? Any experience with how the VAQ diff behaves? It "seems like it should be fine," but I'd still welcome input from anyone who's been down this road already.

The car now has Konis on it, and I'm guessing I'll try Falkens first. I drove SSC a few times last year and the new Falken is really good. Far better than the 615.
I'm with @124_karl on the setup, although I've taken it a bit further than you. Currently I have the 034 25.4mm RSB, Koni Sports, & RE-71R's on Enkei 17x7.5 rims. Went to a 215-45-17 on the rear with a 245-40-17 on the front. I can make the rear come around as needed, but the issue is the excessive roll & camber change = lack of stick in the front. Tire temps in the front are way higher than the rear, even with the smaller tires.
After conversing with Sam Strano & the Potaki's, (Dave Potaki runs a 2019 Civic SI locally- finished 3rd at Nationals in 2019. His dad, Mike, & I have been friends and running together for decades.) I'm going back to the stock rear bar and installing an adjustable 26mm H&R bar in the front- just like in the old days
 

w124_karl

Ready to race!
Location
NC
If Strano didn’t try to talk you off the ledge then maybe we’re on to something.

I considered stagger on the RE71Rs but never did do it. Was worried that anything more was just going to anger the ESC even more than I already was.

Part of my problem has been, I suspect, that I keep trying to drive it like the Focus ST I had, and it (particularly the Eust doesn’t like that much.
 
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