2017 GTi PP at VIR

[Crild]

The only times I've gone over 230 (in menu gauge) was when I was on track with oil above 275 for a while, as stage 2. The issue was much worse when using the rs7 spark plugs. This was on 95+ degree ambient days. If I can get my oil to stick in the 250s, I think water won't be an issue, unless on super hot/arid days

I'm still stock tune and Max oil temp.ive ever seen was 258 or 260 and this was probably a 90+ degree summer day (road America). That's the main reason I'm going for an upgraded IC & RAD to help combat the oil temps and keep them nice and low. Plus I'm tempted to get tuned now lol

 

[victorofhavoc]

I'm still stock tune and Max oil temp. I've ever seen was 258 or 260 and this was probably a 90+ degree summer day (road America). That's the main reason I'm going for an upgraded IC & RAD to help combat the oil temps and keep them nice and low. Plus I'm tempted to get tuned now lol

I'm not sure a radiator will help much with oil temp, especially when tuned. Stock might be okay, but tuned the turbo just cooks oil. It's worth noting that intercooler design can impact airflow to the radiator, though, so some intercoolers could negatively impact the water temp. Thing is, with the Uni IC I saw a drop in oil temp, and a very slight drop in water temp. Based on how much I have seen the oil temp fluctuate with virtually no impact to water temp, I would believe the reverse relationship of lower water temp having virtually no impact on oil temp to be true. I know CSF says otherwise, but I'm very averse to marketing black magic until proven true.

 

[Crild]

I'm not sure a radiator will help much with oil temp, especially when tuned. Stock might be okay, but tuned the turbo just cooks oil. It's worth noting that intercooler design can impact airflow to the radiator, though, so some intercoolers could negatively impact the water temp. Thing is, with the Uni IC I saw a drop in oil temp, and a very slight drop in water temp. Based on how much I have seen the oil temp fluctuate with virtually no impact to water temp, I would believe the reverse relationship of lower water temp having virtually no impact on oil temp to be true. I know CSF says otherwise, but I'm very averse to marketing black magic until proven true.

CSF builds proven stuff. Again no one I know of has one except awesome? in the UK which has data shown on their stage 3 R. Cooler coolant/engine temps = cooler oil. Again I'm not expecting a 20 degree drop but a healthier over all system in the long term.


https://csfrace.com/csf-cooling-releases-the-missing-link-for-the-mqb-platform/

 

[victorofhavoc]

CSF builds proven stuff. Again no one I know of has one except awesome? in the UK which has data shown on their stage 3 R. Cooler coolant/engine temps = cooler oil. Again I'm not expecting a 20 degree drop but a healthier over all system in the long term.


https://csfrace.com/csf-cooling-releases-the-missing-link-for-the-mqb-platform/

The claim there is 50-60F drop in oil temp. I'm calling for a very healthy dose of BS on that. That would mean my car would go from 290 to 240-230 on hot days, and there's just no way. The aftermarket marketing BS on this platform is far worse than anything else I have dealt with in the past.

You're right that cooler overall is usually a good thing. From my experience with turbo cars, I can't imagine that a radiator would be able to ever reduce oil temp by more than 10 degrees F, and that's assuming there's no other auxiliary oil cooling and that the heat exchanger for oil is plumbed into the radiator. If the water and oil temp were so closely related, as they claim, then we'd be seeing water temps rising 50-60 degrees in coordination with the oil. My water temp is not typically in the 270+ range. It has been before briefly, but removing RS7 plugs (back to stock) brought me back down into the 220s-230s, based on what I have seen in the car's display metrics anyway...

I'd love to be proven wrong on this, though.

 

[Crild]

The claim there is 50-60F drop in oil temp. I'm calling for a very healthy dose of BS on that. That would mean my car would go from 290 to 240-230 on hot days, and there's just no way. The aftermarket marketing BS on this platform is far worse than anything else I have dealt with in the past.

You're right that cooler overall is usually a good thing. From my experience with turbo cars, I can't imagine that a radiator would be able to ever reduce oil temp by more than 10 degrees F, and that's assuming there's no other auxiliary oil cooling and that the heat exchanger for oil is plumbed into the radiator. If the water and oil temp were so closely related, as they claim, then we'd be seeing water temps rising 50-60 degrees in coordination with the oil. My water temp is not typically in the 270+ range. It has been before briefly, but removing RS7 plugs (back to stock) brought me back down into the 220s-230s, based on what I have seen in the car's display metrics anyway...

I'd love to be proven wrong on this, though.

It's pretty high and a large claim but coming from ash I feel like it's decent data. Also keep in mind it's a stage 3+ car and I know for a fact that a stage 2 R will go limp mode on track from overheating. He is APR UK and they are very active on the mqb pages. I'll let you know what I end up with temp wise once they go on around March/April.

If I end up getting tuned I'm planning on Unitronic which they still utilize stock plugs which will help on temps it seems.

 

[victorofhavoc]

It's pretty high and a large claim but coming from ash I feel like it's decent data. Also keep in mind it's a stage 3+ car and I know for a fact that a stage 2 R will go limp mode on track from overheating. He is APR UK and they are very active on the mqb pages. I'll let you know what I end up with temp wise once they go on around March/April.

If I end up getting tuned I'm planning on Unitronic which they still utilize stock plugs which will help on temps it seems.

Yeah but it appears that data is from a 500hp R that was running a stock cooling system before...? That seems rather silly considering stock this car has cooling issues with oil. I am curious to see what you and Mink come up with after install, but neither of you are running an oil cooler, right? That'll be interesting data for sure.

 

[Crild]

Yeah but it appears that data is from a 500hp R that was running a stock cooling system before...? That seems rather silly considering stock this car has cooling issues with oil. I am curious to see what you and Mink come up with after install, but neither of you are running an oil cooler, right? That'll be interesting data for sure.

Correct no oil cooler. I never plan on doing a catch can or oil cooler as those decrease reliability 10x considering it's my daily & my location means I get to experience winter.

Best I can do is via the mib interface as I wouldn't have any way to do true data logging tho.

 

[victorofhavoc]

Correct no oil cooler. I never plan on doing a catch can or oil cooler as those decrease reliability 10x considering it's my daily & my location means I get to experience winter.

Best I can do is via the mib interface as I wouldn't have any way to do true data logging tho.

florida has winter? (just going off of your location tag on the site)

i still need to install an inline switch on the oil cooler lines. I wouldn't run a catch can that replaces the pcv for winter related reasons, but an inline unit should be fine. I still prefer the baffled oil pan route, but we'll see what money allows this year. I've had a lot of other car parts that i'm throwing out/replacing this winter. Everything 034 that's not the topmounts is coming off my car...

 

[Crild]

florida has winter? (just going off of your location tag on the site)

i still need to install an inline switch on the oil cooler lines. I wouldn't run a catch can that replaces the pcv for winter related reasons, but an inline unit should be fine. I still prefer the baffled oil pan route, but we'll see what money allows this year. I've had a lot of other car parts that i'm throwing out/replacing this winter. Everything 034 that's not the topmounts is coming off my car...

Wisconsin, hence all the road America references.

How are those 034 mounts? I'm looking into doing the eurotek inserts with OEM rubber mounts to keep it a good daily and not have any BS noises and stuff those plates bring (the old GC debacle)

 

[NoNpLuS]

Everything 034 that's not the topmounts is coming off my car...

victor,
was wondering what 034 parts you were ditching? how come? i just picked up a gently used set of 034 camber mounts for $175 and was gonna pair them with their springs and RSB... i'd like to do some scca events this spring and have basic suspension mods planned. i can't afford to go overboard or ruin my DD...

 

[victorofhavoc]

Wisconsin, hence all the road America references.

How are those 034 mounts? I'm looking into doing the eurotek inserts with OEM rubber mounts to keep it a good daily and not have any BS noises and stuff those plates bring (the old GC debacle)

Gotcha. I should be up at road america at some point this year I think. I've got a friend that goes every year and always invites me, but i tend to prioritize a lot of other events first.

The topmounts are pretty good. They're still pretty aggressive in terms of feel. They're not quite as solid as a solid topmount, but the rubber doesn't bend much and the spring/bearing makes contact with metal, not with rubber. As far as daily use, I would take it on if the car is a true track rat (12+ days per year) and you need camber, but otherwise I'd stay stock.

victor,
was wondering what 034 parts you were ditching? how come? i just picked up a gently used set of 034 camber mounts for $175 and was gonna pair them with their springs and RSB... i'd like to do some scca events this spring and have basic suspension mods planned. i can't afford to go overboard or ruin my DD...

I have/had 034 dogbone inserts, p34 intake, rear bar, rear and front endlinks, dynamic + springs, the dynamic+ topmounts, and rear strut mount. The topmounts are the only thing I'm keeping. The rest of everything I'm either replacing with stock, superpro, or the revo bushing in the case of the dogbone.

I absolutely do not tolerate aftermarket promises of "it's as good or better than stock and has no drawbacks" because they're never actually true. The 034 springs and topmounts did not play well together. I was told this may be due to having DCC, but I can't confirm or deny that. the front right endlink keeps coming loose, regardless of amount of loctite on it. The rears one broke, and since i got them to work with the bar when i replaced my st bar +superpro EL with the 034 bar+EL, it felt like a waste. I threw out the endlinks and gave away the bar locally. I'm back on the ST and superpro EL and it's way quieter/tighter feeling. Superpro quality is significantly better. I'm going to their front and rear bar to balance things out soon. The dogbone inserts just had horrible vibrations and noise. It always felt the car was falling apart so I ditched them. The revo is better. P34 was all warped, heat makes it crack around the bolts, the plastic doesn't look oem at all, the filter they send you should only use if you want to kill your engine, and it's really a pain to take in and out because not all the bolt holes line up/seat properly.

If you're looking at doing SCCA autocross/racing stuff, I would avoid doing anything to the car, except tires, until you figure out how you want it to drive. By doing things outside of classing in mind, you'll make your car less competitive, and regret it down the road. Autocross is addicting, and a lot of fun when you're competitive. The mods you're talking about take you into STH territory where those mods won't be competitive at all. STH is about a $7-8k investment if you want to be really competitive, and probably 4-5k if you want to be regionally competitive. I would get a proper alignment, some decent tires, and possibly an adjustable shock first, and then mod from there as necessary for your class/driving style. Honestly, alignment and tires will completely change the car. Take out all the factory rear toe in and front toe in, and suddenly the car will turn telepathically, but this also means you have to slow down when it's wet out . Rear bar will give you more initial rotation, and may be okay for lower speed stuff, but can lead to unwanted snap oversteer for higher speed stuff. Rear bar should balance the front more than act on its own. Also, if you're not aware, a sway bar can ruin your DD in areas with uneven roads and potholes, but it all depends on your tolerance levels.

 

[donefor]

Wisconsin, hence all the road America references.

How are those 034 mounts? I'm looking into doing the eurotek inserts with OEM rubber mounts to keep it a good daily and not have any BS noises and stuff those plates bring (the old GC debacle)

Don't those Eurotek inserts require that you drill out the stock mounts? NO BUENO. The 034 camber mounts are not much added NVH and don't require any DIY besides a little tower trimming, which you may have to do with the inserts, too.

 

[Crild]

Gotcha. I should be up at road america at some point this year I think. I've got a friend that goes every year and always invites me, but i tend to prioritize a lot of other events first.

Road America > pretty much everything else. You should try to make it. I'm always the only VW??

 

[victorofhavoc]

Don't those Eurotek inserts require that you drill out the stock mounts? NO BUENO. The 034 camber mounts are not much added NVH and don't require any DIY besides a little tower trimming, which you may have to do with the inserts, too.

I didn't have to trim my tower to fit them. My dampening adjustment is on the bottom, so that might depend on your setup. NVH is personal...They introduced a lot in my case. It's a spring sitting against metal basically. The rubber insert is only there for the dampener so it provides some slop for shock movement, but it's very little.

 

[victorofhavoc]

Road America > pretty much everything else. You should try to make it. I'm always the only VW??

Come make it down to Topeka for Heartland Park sometime . I'm still not sure if I'm going to COTA this year, and I only have about 2 weeks to decide.