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2017 GTi PP at VIR

Crild

Drag Race Newbie
Location
Florida
The school line will take you over the curb on Turn 16 and straight lining the lower snake. In the wet or cold slick conditions the curbs MUST be avoided. The lower snake will spit RWD cars into the tire wall.

I’ve not heard of airbags deploying in all the time I’ve run at VIR.
They get 1-2 dozen every year at road America
 

Mini7

Autocross Champion
Location
Charlotte, NC
Car(s)
2017 GTi Sport PP
Called ohlins. Apparently the kit for the mk7R only lowers the car 5mm from stock max before you run out of travel? I believe that's the issue they were correcting with the redesign tho? European cars get 15mm but NA 5mm?? No one is going to drop $3,000 on a coilover setup to stay stock height or maybe 5mm drop.

I don't believe the ohlins tech sales guy so I've reached out to Humberto @ Griffen motorworks since he did cliffs car and he is working to help me out on finding the lowering range of the car since cliffs is .5" or so lower than stock.

I can't find anyone to confirm or deny + I want to know the full lowering range not just what ohlins recommends it be set at.


Im going to go to the local dealership and measure the stock ride height of a GTi and a R.

I want to know where I am compared to stock ride height.
Over the winter I will measure my stock struts when I remove the 034 camber plates and put the stock plates back on.
 

Crild

Drag Race Newbie
Location
Florida
Im going to go to the local dealership and measure the stock ride height of a GTi and a R.

I want to know where I am compared to stock ride height.
Over the winter I will measure my stock struts when I remove the 034 camber plates and put the stock plates back on.
Well the 15% off sale on ohlins ends monday lol. It's aggravating when Ohlins has incorrect product info on their website and has no plans to fix it. They leave the 15mm drop up on the site but tell customers 5mm IF they call tech sales.....

I believe stock is like 26F 26.5R on 18's for fender to ground.
 
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jmason

Go Kart Newbie
Location
Frederick, MD

Crild

Drag Race Newbie
Location
Florida
Just curious. Where we’re they on sale?

Because the company Id order thru is having 15% off site wide sales. Includes APR products also which is nice because they ran such a shit sale this year. It's a standard black Friday / cyber week sale.
 

victorofhavoc

Autocross Champion
Location
Kansas City
I have some good toe plates and 034 adjustable rear toe links. Currently running .24 decimal degrees toe in at the rear. I have a chart that converts this into a linear measurement based on the wheel size. My previous rear toe in was .44 decimal degrees, so my current rear toe is about half of what I had before. What do you suggest?

Saturday is calling for .5” of rain. It’s going to be interesting. I have fresh MPS4S and they are great in the wet. I rarely have to give point bys in the wet. Wet track is a great power equalizer. In the wet my car is loose with the stiffer rear sway bar. So got to judge my corner entry speeds correctly. Throttle lift = snap loose

Yeah, the wet is an amazing equalizer. If I know it's going to be a very wet weekend (like 90%+ both days), I get my rear toe aligned in more. Last time I believe it was 1/8th in per side, with total toe being 1/4 in. It was still slidey on lift off, but completely controllable and very easy to modulate mid corner with throttle and brake. I don't have much hard data from the last heavy wet day, but I recall 15 cars on track, i started around 5-6, passed everyone in front of me, then had wide open track until I passed another 3 or 4 cars.

Currently trying to decide between Ohlins R&T, KW V3, Bilstein B16 (not same price bracket), or MCS setup. I know everyone seems partial to Ohlins so far. Anyone who has/had any of those options able to provide some feedback?

I was comparing the Ohlins, B16, MCS, and AST recently. MCS/Ground control were awful with responses (taking upwards of 2-3 phone calls and 2-3 weeks between responses). AST was fine for the most part but refused to give me any real data and the majority of responses were "because our shocks are really powerful", so I gave up on trying with them. Ohlins is far above and beyond the rest of them in terms of communication and directness. I would not hesitate to buy anything from them. I wouldn't touch the KW with a ten foot pole. I've known so many people with issues with them on track, from spring seats working their way down to broken shafts, and everything in between.

Just over cyber monday, i ended up purchasing the B16, because I was able to get them for under 1300$ for the set, and I got a DCC canceler for cheap as well. I wanted the Ohlins, but couldn't justify double the price at the moment (just had a baby, and I owe my wife some 1300$ shoes for Christmas...). I will most likely run the B16 for a while and then get them either revalved for linear F/R at 500/400 or resell them and get the Ohlins. I'm keeping my 034 dynamic + plates for the time being. With enough(but not too much) lowering in front, the static camber can come down to -2.3~ and still keep a proper geometry on them.

I liked the Bilsteins, right up to the moment when I was informed that Bilstein won’t sell replacement struts. I have a broken strut that can’t be fixed or replaced. Now I have to do a complete replacement of the suspension.

Unfortunately, you're not the first I've heard of having similar issues. Let's chat on the side...I might be able to help you machine, or machine for you, some locking collars out of aluminum. I'm considering just reinforcing them right out of the gate when I get mine in...
 

Crild

Drag Race Newbie
Location
Florida
Received a call back from Brian @ Ohlins USA. The vws-mt21 kit will only achieve 5mm-7mm drop at the very most from stock before the shock is 100% out of travel and you'll end up riding the bump stops. This information is not available on the US site and is different from Europe. Only way to know this is by calling them directly. For some reason the same system gets 15mm on the ROW spec cars even though the strut mounts are identical part #'s.

This being Ohlins they have no plans to redesign the kit for more lowering as it would negatively impact the performance of their product. So if stock ride height is good for you then these coilovers would work just fine but that defeats the purpose in the first place.

Only possible way to go lower is with mounts with a lower stack height & maybe the camber plates cliff & others use achieve that?

With that being said, don't waste your money on ohlins products for these cars as it isn't worth it.
 

victorofhavoc

Autocross Champion
Location
Kansas City
Received a call back from Brian @ Ohlins USA. The vws-mt21 kit will only achieve 5mm-7mm drop at the very most from stock before the shock is 100% out of travel and you'll end up riding the bump stops. This information is not available on the US site and is different from Europe. Only way to know this is by calling them directly. For some reason the same system gets 15mm on the ROW spec cars even though the strut mounts are identical part #'s.

This being Ohlins they have no plans to redesign the kit for more lowering as it would negatively impact the performance of their product. So if stock ride height is good for you then these coilovers would work just fine but that defeats the purpose in the first place.

Only possible way to go lower is with mounts with a lower stack height & maybe the camber plates cliff & others use achieve that?

With that being said, don't waste your money on ohlins products for these cars as it isn't worth it.
I would say it's worth it, even at stock height. You're getting a much better suspension overall.

Based on my measurements of the lower control arms, stock height to ~22mm lower is optimal. Lower than that and you need geometry changes...
 

Crild

Drag Race Newbie
Location
Florida
I would say it's worth it, even at stock height. You're getting a much better suspension overall.

Based on my measurements of the lower control arms, stock height to ~22mm lower is optimal. Lower than that and you need geometry changes...

Based on info provided I'm amazed cliff hasn't had major problems with his setup since he's lowered 1/2"? Which means even with his revalve he should be riding on bumpstops at all time according to ohlins. Why would someone pay $3000 for coilovers to stay stock height? I'm more concerned with the fact ohlins doesn't care that their kit does nothing and doesn't know why row vs NA is so different and has no plans to ever redesign their coilovers so you can lower the car. Ohlins has always been the best of the best for non "racing" systems and this back and forth with their tech sales has left a bad taste in my mouth.

Griffen has recommended Bilstein pss10 as the next best option with h&r RSS due to how stiff that kit actually is and would recommend their street series coils over it for everyday use. Kw v3 are out since I've always heard mediocre reviews + Griffen has also said they are questionable.
 

victorofhavoc

Autocross Champion
Location
Kansas City
Based on info provided I'm amazed cliff hasn't had major problems with his setup since he's lowered 1/2"? Which means even with his revalve he should be riding on bumpstops at all time according to ohlins. Why would someone pay $3000 for coilovers to stay stock height? I'm more concerned with the fact ohlins doesn't care that their kit does nothing and doesn't know why row vs NA is so different and has no plans to ever redesign their coilovers so you can lower the car. Ohlins has always been the best of the best for non "racing" systems and this back and forth with their tech sales has left a bad taste in my mouth.

Griffen has recommended Bilstein pss10 as the next best option with h&r RSS due to how stiff that kit actually is and would recommend their street series coils over it for everyday use. Kw v3 are out since I've always heard mediocre reviews + Griffen has also said they are questionable.

Stock height has advantages. Lower is better for certain aero, but too low can royally mess up your suspension geometry. Not everyone buys coils to go the hellaflush route; some just buy them for performance.

You can't go wrong with the pss10. There's a reason the spec boxster calls for pss9. At the end of the day, the driver matters more than the pocketbook, and any coil is going to get you better mechanical grip, but the individual shocks will give you various tradeoffs and performance. A $5k custom moton setup won't make you a full two seconds quicker than a cheapo bc racing coil, but it will be faster by some tiny margin. Whether the driver can extract that tiny margin is something else.
 

donefor

Go Kart Newbie
Location
usa
Stock height has advantages.

Being able to drive on the street without a lot of caution is one! With B6 i could drive with abandon around town, with 1" drop not so much.

On the other hand, the added caution may have saved me from a couple moving violations ?
 

Mini7

Autocross Champion
Location
Charlotte, NC
Car(s)
2017 GTi Sport PP
11/16/2019 2017 PP Sport 255-35-18’s = Diameter = 25”
Ohlins R&T

Front: 26.25” /26.45”
Rear: 26.69”/26.65”

My car is 5mm lower than the 2019 SE on the Ohlins setup. Not sure why the right front is nearly ½” higher than the left on the SE I measured. The difference in tire diameter accounts for 1.25mm (half of 2.5mm or .1”)

These are the measurements I took of three new GTi’s in the lot on Saturday. The 2019 R was the most consistent in terms of ride height measurements across the front axle.

I’m running a square spring setup 450lb/in all round with Vorshlag camber plates Up front. I can most probably shave another 2mm all round before the springs will unseat. I don’t have an issue with a minimal ride height drop. Maintaining suspension travel is more important. Plus stock ride height allows for wider tires to fit without rubbing.

The coil overs are providing additional grip and I’m gaining more confidence in the car. I softened the rear shocks by two clicks because of the wet weather and that felt more comfortable for me. Where I notice the grip the most is going up through the uphill esses. The car feels more under control with way less understeer through Turn 9, making the setup for T-10 better. I’m not fighting to drag the car over to track right before turning in. I feel that I have a little safety margin now, whereas before I was at the ragged edge of what I could extract from the stock suspension. A small lapse in concentration in timing steering inputs up the esses, apex T-10 late by 2ft and things become a handful very very quickly.

The car rides the curbs really well on the stiffer springs. I don’t feel the car skipping over the curbing. The wheels ride the bumps under control of the shock. The noise over the curbs is louder then the stock suspension. I also noticed that it seemed louder when I had my check off ride for Black when I had the added weight of the instructor in the right seat.

2019 GTi SE 225-40-18 = Diameter = 25.1”
Front: 26.45” /26.89”
Rear: 26.89”/26.81”

2019 Autobahn 225-40-18 = Diameter = 25.1”
Front: 26.5”/26.73”
Rear: 26.81”/26.97”

2019 R 235-35-19 = Diameter = 25.5”
Front: 26.34” /26”
Rear: 26.42”/26.38”
 

Crild

Drag Race Newbie
Location
Florida
So it seems Ohlins 5mm drop is accurate then. Pretty sad IMO.

I went ahead and passed on the Ohlins. The 15% off was a smoking deal but Ohlins attitude of it only drops it by 5mm and the we don't give know why or care to find out attitude really put me off. To say to a customer on the phone..yeah we dont really care about that issue and the implied F off attitude is never a good idea. They may make stellar products but when you just ignore problems on a product line like that and will only tell you information like that when you call is a big red flag IMO. Sure running fat tires is cool and all but I'm not going to make my car look like a monster truck to do so. I want to maintain the 1" drop from the springs I have and have the ability to go a bit lower.

I will either move into Bilstein B16's as they are the same spring rates as Ohlins R&T or explore into H&R a bit more over the winter here.
 

Cliff

Drag Racing Champion
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Car(s)
2015 Cayman GTS
11/16/2019 2017 PP Sport 255-35-18’s = Diameter = 25”
Ohlins R&T

Front: 26.25” /26.45”
Rear: 26.69”/26.65”

Another data point for you, my car sits at 25.5" LF, 25.675 RF, 25.75 LR, and 25.875 RR. The car is currently on 255/35R18 tires with 5/32 remaining tread compared to 8/32 when new, and using 7" main springs in conjunction with helper springs that collapse down to a 0.7" height (free length - stroke), with Ground Control camber plates.
 

victorofhavoc

Autocross Champion
Location
Kansas City
Another data point for you, my car sits at 25.5" LF, 25.675 RF, 25.75 LR, and 25.875 RR. The car is currently on 255/35R18 tires with 5/32 remaining tread compared to 8/32 when new, and using 7" main springs in conjunction with helper springs that collapse down to a 0.7" height (free length - stroke), with Ground Control camber plates.

Are both of you corner balanced, and is there room for more forward rake in your setups?
 
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