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2017 GTi PP at VIR

Ronnie_B

Go Kart Newbie
Location
United States
The inside edge is getting hot and picking up OPR (other people's rubber) on track.

Maybe normal, maybe too much camber, depends on a lot of factors.

I would argue that the inside edge of the rear tire sees the least amount of grip, and as a result the marbles picked up are not scrubbed off. Mine has done this for as long as I can remember, regardless of camber setting.
 

Mini7

Autocross Newbie
Location
Charlotte, NC
Car(s)
2017 GTi Sport PP
Admittedly, I would prefer the tech inspection be more thorough at Track Daze. It’s very much left up to the individual participants to inspect their car, so I think that’s the mentality they have. I typically run in the black group (advanced) and find that I can get a lot of track time for the money. I will say that Track Daze runs during the week, not the weekends, which I tend to like because it saves my weekends (because kids).

I always see the Audi club arrive on the Friday in November that Trackdaze is leaving. Lots of nice cars and the whole turn signals vs point-by’s seems interesting. I may give them a try this year.

I like weekday events as well. The open track Audi event in April provides plenty of track time and it’s MonTues. I prefer turn signals. It was easy transition for me. But many hate it. Just takes a little getting used to. TRackDaze always runs the Thur/Fri before the Audi DE. I was most probably watching you guys Friday afternoon.

Watched your video. The BBK will definitely help you on the back straight and front straight. You have more straight line speed than my car. With practice you will compress your braking on the back straight from the 4. Braking into T-1 is trickier because of the downhill and loss of grip but you will be able to go deeper than the stock brakes. That’s a good lap considering that you are still on stock brakes.

Your sector 2 time is your greatest opportunity to make up time. You’re coasting into the brake zones for T-3 and T-4. Target 90mph Vmax going into the brake zone for 3 and 80 going into 4. A BBK is going to help you more than you think. You will have the confidence to push a little harder, compress the brake zones, stay hard on the gas before braking.

Your lines are good. Don’t take the above as a criticism. I know how hard you have to push to run a 2:17 @ VIR in our cars. I’m interested how you will do when you are next out at VIR. I’d bet that you will get down to a 2:15 by the end of the weekend.

Your car appears to be handling well. You are getting good corner speed through Hogpen onto the front straight.
What gear are you in going up the esses and through T10?
You in 3rd or 2nd around T12/Oaktree?
 

Mini7

Autocross Newbie
Location
Charlotte, NC
Car(s)
2017 GTi Sport PP
I'd also add that with the tires being non-slick, the sidewall might need more rim width to better support the tread.

Apex wheel group buy can’t come soon enough. 17x9. I’d would agree with that, as I feel I have my tire pressures dialed in at last. Getting consistent pressure gain front and rear And my hot tire pressure are pretty close to square when I check them after a session.

Got fix my rear ride height and get it back to stockish and get my droop travel back. Loosing grip 3-wheeling around the track.

Turn 3
E4194FE4-F0BA-4CD9-B129-4128D04AB0DD.jpeg
14060741-506F-433A-8683-C2398170AC02.png

Turn 4 apex
1792AC18-4EB2-47D4-A22F-96C18BD7096B.png
Plus I ride a fair amount of curb.
 

Ronnie_B

Go Kart Newbie
Location
United States
I like weekday events as well. The open track Audi event in April provides plenty of track time and it’s MonTues. I prefer turn signals. It was easy transition for me. But many hate it. Just takes a little getting used to. TRackDaze always runs the Thur/Fri before the Audi DE. I was most probably watching you guys Friday afternoon.

Watched your video. The BBK will definitely help you on the back straight and front straight. You have more straight line speed than my car. With practice you will compress your braking on the back straight from the 4. Braking into T-1 is trickier because of the downhill and loss of grip but you will be able to go deeper than the stock brakes. That’s a good lap considering that you are still on stock brakes.

Your sector 2 time is your greatest opportunity to make up time. You’re coasting into the brake zones for T-3 and T-4. Target 90mph Vmax going into the brake zone for 3 and 80 going into 4. A BBK is going to help you more than you think. You will have the confidence to push a little harder, compress the brake zones, stay hard on the gas before braking.

Your lines are good. Don’t take the above as a criticism. I know how hard you have to push to run a 2:17 @ VIR in our cars. I’m interested how you will do when you are next out at VIR. I’d bet that you will get down to a 2:15 by the end of the weekend.

Your car appears to be handling well. You are getting good corner speed through Hogpen onto the front straight.
What gear are you in going up the esses and through T10?
You in 3rd or 2nd around T12/Oaktree?

Thanks for the feedback, I really appreciate another perspective from drivers who understand these cars. I completely agree with the BBK statement. In the back of my mind, my stock brakes always made me nervous and of course that lengthens my braking zones. So my gear selection through turns 2, 3, & 4 need work, because if I leave it in 4th in turn 3, then I’m bogging accelerating into turn 4, which kills my speed. I need to leave it in 3rd through 2, 3, and 4. As for the climbing esses, I’m in 5th from the bridge to Oak Tree. I leave it in 5th at turn 10, because the downhill exit is easier to accelerate out of. I downshift from 5th to 3rd at Oak Tree, and found that as I carry more speed that I don’t need 2nd anymore.
I love VIR, it’s so technical and always room for improvement.
 

Mini7

Autocross Newbie
Location
Charlotte, NC
Car(s)
2017 GTi Sport PP
I would argue that the inside edge of the rear tire sees the least amount of grip, and as a result the marbles picked up are not scrubbed off. Mine has done this for as long as I can remember, regardless of camber setting.

I noticed the same pickup on your tires in your build thread. The rear camber is about right in my opinion. I can always chalk my tires next time out. On my MPS4S the rear tire shoulders were also getting beat up. -2 degrees helped with that.
I need to do tire temps and verify alignment optimization. Was only planning on doing that with my take off slicks.
Heck I was considering going to -2.5 in the rear with the take-offs and bump the front to -4 with the Verkline LCA’s when they go on.
 
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Cliff

Drag Racing Champion
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Car(s)
2015 Cayman GTS
I would argue that the inside edge of the rear tire sees the least amount of grip, and as a result the marbles picked up are not scrubbed off. Mine has done this for as long as I can remember, regardless of camber setting.

I agree, it looks like clag and not worrisome tire wear. A few miles on the street with these tires will likely wear it away.
 

Mini7

Autocross Newbie
Location
Charlotte, NC
Car(s)
2017 GTi Sport PP
Thanks for the feedback, I really appreciate another perspective from drivers who understand these cars. I completely agree with the BBK statement. In the back of my mind, my stock brakes always made me nervous and of course that lengthens my braking zones. So my gear selection through turns 2, 3, & 4 need work, because if I leave it in 4th in turn 3, then I’m bogging accelerating into turn 4, which kills my speed. I need to leave it in 3rd through 2, 3, and 4. As for the climbing esses, I’m in 5th from the bridge to Oak Tree. I leave it in 5th at turn 10, because the downhill exit is easier to accelerate out of. I downshift from 5th to 3rd at Oak Tree, and found that as I carry more speed that I don’t need 2nd anymore.
I love VIR, it’s so technical and always room for improvement.

You’re doing great!
It is super technical. The long straights make it difficult for us. The fast momentum sections suit our cars sector 3 & sector 5 and the then the technical sector 2. I struggle for grip in T1, T4-5, T12.

OK.
So 3rd gear for turns 2,3,4,5 .
I’m in 4th up through the esses (is the gearing different on the Mk6 GTi’s.....?)
3rd through T10 is faster, but I often use 4th
2nd through T12 is faster but I also use 3rd
3rd for turns 13,14,15,16,17, I change to 4th on the exit of Hogpen
 

xXDavidCXx

Drag Racing Champion
Car(s)
2017 GTI SE DSG
Apex wheel group buy can’t come soon enough. 17x9. I’d would agree with that, as I feel I have my tire pressures dialed in at last. Getting consistent pressure gain front and rear And my hot tire pressure are pretty close to square when I check them after a session.

Got fix my rear ride height and get it back to stockish and get my droop travel back. Loosing grip 3-wheeling around the track.

Turn 3
View attachment 197789
Turn 4 apex
Plus I ride a fair amount of curb.
You will be better off putting more front spring on than trying to fix the rear. That will also help the front camber curve.
 

Mini7

Autocross Newbie
Location
Charlotte, NC
Car(s)
2017 GTi Sport PP
Your setup is leaning towards tires with larger slip angle than what the nitto provide. That rear edge wear would indicate too much camber. The street miles should not affect the wear like that in such low use. You're also running high spring rates in the rear which is very unloaded and light, thereby reducing a lot of roll and decreasing traction on that axle. Everything combined, you need less camber there, or a higher slip angle tire (slick), dramatically soften dampening, or go back to the stock sway bar. With that much camber your front shouldn't be wearing like that. It's either being pushed into understeer from too fast entry, the spring rate or dampening are too soft, the bar is too small, or there's a front to rear balance issue.

If you're not ready for a true slick, maybe try another 100tw designed for greater slip angle like the nankang, maxxis, or toyo rr. I think you just need to bite the bullet and go R7. They can resist the heat this platform gives in the front end...

Hey Gordan hope you and the family had a great Christmas!!

I’m most probably over driving the NT01’s a little as well. Got learn to drive with more patience...Lol

So when I went to the 12k rear springs I gained 30mm in static ride height which has comprised droop travel. Hence the inside rear coming off the ground. Car balance right now, is slight loose everywhere.
I ran 7clicks F/ 10clicks R for my 1st DE back. I tightened that up to 5clicks F/ 8clicks R for my last event back and improved my PB by 3 seconds. Car balance remained slight loose. I just think that I was getting used to the new balance of the car and started pushing fractionally harder everywhere.

First I need to correct my ride height situation. Going to go to 7” front and rear spring with a helper spring. All 4-wheels on the ground will increase overall grip. Especially at the rear which will likely cause the car to push. I can then increase the the rear rebound. I really I would like to go back to a stock rear bar and use spring rate to control roll.

Right now, slight loose is fast. I cannot argue with that. The spring rate change and revalve has made a huge difference on a less than ideal setup.

I have been thinking about upping the front spring rate. More for the move to the take-offs. But then I need to bump the rear higher as well. I need to listen to my audio on the videos and see where I am scrubbing the fronts and adjust my driving style. I was not fighting car balance. The front and rear feels more synchronized now than ever before. Slip angle is progressive. The car is moving a lot more under me. XDS was interfering way more than before.
 

Mini7

Autocross Newbie
Location
Charlotte, NC
Car(s)
2017 GTi Sport PP
You will be better off putting more front spring on than trying to fix the rear. That will also help the front camber curve.

What do you recommend for the front? I know you have been busy over the Winter with suspension analysis, figuring out out the various permutations. Have not had the chance to get caught up.
Currently at 8k/12k swift (450/672)

Not really concerned with the rear other than fixing the ride height.

DFC67133-0DB7-423E-A313-60A483020EFA.jpeg
 

Mini7

Autocross Newbie
Location
Charlotte, NC
Car(s)
2017 GTi Sport PP
This is the exact reason I’ve held off on running a wider tire than the 225/45r17 on my 17x8.5 wheels. The wider wheel supports the sidewall with a small amount of stretch, and keeps them from rolling over.

That is a good point.
My fastest time on MPS4S was on my 235-45-18’s and not my 255-35-18’s. Something to be said for optimizing the contact patch.
 

xXDavidCXx

Drag Racing Champion
Car(s)
2017 GTI SE DSG
What do you recommend for the front? I know you have been busy over the Winter with suspension analysis, figuring out out the various permutations. Have not had the chance to get caught up.
Currently at 8k/12k swift (450/672)

Not really concerned with the rear other than fixing the ride height.

View attachment 197803
You have a good split, ride frequency wise, though my calculations do not take into account the CSS swivels. I'd just go up in rate to what ever the next rates you can get are.

Did you get the rear shocks revalved too?

Try 500/700 or 550/750.
 

victorofhavoc

Autocross Newbie
Location
Kansas City
Hope you had a great Christmas as well, Joe!

That is certainly a large ride height change in the rear and likely put even more weight up front. Some rake is good (I've gone as high as 20mm without issue), but too much can cause more inside wheel lift than necessary. The wheel lift really isn't a bad thing. All of your weight is on the other tire anyway, so getting that one down doesn't really increase your grip a lot, it just changes the position of the car, which might hurt your times.

I doubt you need more spring for slicks. FYI, the z runs 14k/10k on a 295 square setup. I'm probably going to remove the rear bar next year and see how it does. You might benefit from more front spring to match the rear though. I'd also consider lowering your ride height from factory by an inch since you're already messing with springs. The benefits there can be pretty huge.
 

xXDavidCXx

Drag Racing Champion
Car(s)
2017 GTI SE DSG
Hope you had a great Christmas as well, Joe!

That is certainly a large ride height change in the rear and likely put even more weight up front. Some rake is good (I've gone as high as 20mm without issue), but too much can cause more inside wheel lift than necessary. The wheel lift really isn't a bad thing. All of your weight is on the other tire anyway, so getting that one down doesn't really increase your grip a lot, it just changes the position of the car, which might hurt your times.

I doubt you need more spring for slicks. FYI, the z runs 14k/10k on a 295 square setup. I'm probably going to remove the rear bar next year and see how it does. You might benefit from more front spring to match the rear though. I'd also consider lowering your ride height from factory by an inch since you're already messing with springs. The benefits there can be pretty huge.
This is generally true, but not for the GTI.

Two things working against you.

1. Ohlins short shock stroke

2. Abysmal camber curve below the stock ride height.

In order to fix number 1 you have to shorten the shock body or run stiffer springs

In order to fix number 2 you have to run stiffer springs to reduce body roll.

Also, comparing rates and tires from anther car is useless unless we can compare ride frequency.
 
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