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2017 GTi PP at VIR

victorofhavoc

Autocross Newbie
Location
Kansas City
When Griffin ordered my set in late August, the US Ohlins rep indicated that the MQB product was being redesigned and could not offer a timeframe for availability of the redesigned product. I have no idea if that answers your question but it reflects what I know.

It actually does, since the ohlins rep told me in mid July that the kit had changed. I just sent an email out to him again for an update, so we'll see what he says.

Thanks Cliff!
 

victorofhavoc

Autocross Newbie
Location
Kansas City
It actually does, since the ohlins rep told me in mid July that the kit had changed. I just sent an email out to him again for an update, so we'll see what he says.

Thanks Cliff!

I spoke with the rep today. The revised mt21 kit is the replacement for the mp21 and it's already out. It's the kit that runs 400/400 and revised valving. Anyone ordering today make sure you're getting vwsmt21 if you want the square setup. Ecs had a sale on an mp21 kit and I almost pulled the trigger a couple months ago but once I got the details I canceled my order.
 

Mini7

Autocross Newbie
Location
Charlotte, NC
Car(s)
2017 GTi Sport PP
I spoke with the rep today. The revised mt21 kit is the replacement for the mp21 and it's already out. It's the kit that runs 400/400 and revised valving. Anyone ordering today make sure you're getting vwsmt21 if you want the square setup. Ecs had a sale on an mp21 kit and I almost pulled the trigger a couple months ago but once I got the details I canceled my order.

I bought the MT21 but opted to go with 450/450 lbs Swift springs vs. the 400/400 Ohlins setup. I believe the redesign is for the R Models which run a slightly lower ride height in the USA compared to Europe.

I got my car back on the ground and measured the rear ride height at 677mm or 26.75” both left and right. Top of the wheel fender to ground. My stock suspension measured 677mm left rear and 684mm right rear before installing the Ohlins. I set the spring adjuster at 35mm. Instructions were vague calling for 30 to 40mm so I split the difference. I will likely drop the ride height by 10mm but want to get the front done to see where the car ends up.
 

victorofhavoc

Autocross Newbie
Location
Kansas City
What were the rates before the redesign?

400/285 I believe.

I'll probably be going with 500/400 because I run a staggered setup.

Btw Mini, it's pretty common for rear right to be higher with a low or empty gas tank. When the tank is full it nearly evens out. When I corner balanced my car before front left was the lowest at nearly 25mm lower than rear right, and that was with a full tank and driver weight. I have the dsg and pp, which does weigh out a little differently than the manual or non pp.

Also i asked the rep about mqb specifically and not gti or r. His response indicated that they were the same kit. I'm pretty sure even the rs3 runs the same kit because they're all basically fwd cars with the same wheelbase to platform length setup.
 

Cliff

Drag Racing Champion
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Car(s)
2015 Cayman GTS
400/285 I believe.

I'll probably be going with 500/400 because I run a staggered setup.

Btw Mini, it's pretty common for rear right to be higher with a low or empty gas tank. When the tank is full it nearly evens out. When I corner balanced my car before front left was the lowest at nearly 25mm lower than rear right, and that was with a full tank and driver weight. I have the dsg and pp, which does weigh out a little differently than the manual or non pp.

Also i asked the rep about mqb specifically and not gti or r. His response indicated that they were the same kit. I'm pretty sure even the rs3 runs the same kit because they're all basically fwd cars with the same wheelbase to platform length setup.

70n front and 70n rear for the GTI spring package and 70n is approximately 400 lb/in. The standard spring package for the R is 70n front and 80n rear, and 80n is 450 lb/in. At this time and according to the Ohlins USA website the MQB cars (A3/S3/RS3/TT/TTS/TTRS/GTI/R) all use the same MT21 kit.

Edit: I am running the MT21 kit on my car and I downloaded the attached data sheet several months ago. I have no idea if the redesigned product will use the same part number.

I am running custom rates using Swift main and helper springs at 80n front and 110n rear, or 450/625. Stiffer rear springs reduce understeer. Ohlins had to revalve my rear shocks to accommodate the higher rate.
 

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Cliff

Drag Racing Champion
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Car(s)
2015 Cayman GTS
I bought the MT21 but opted to go with 450/450 lbs Swift springs vs. the 400/400 Ohlins setup. I believe the redesign is for the R Models which run a slightly lower ride height in the USA compared to Europe.

I got my car back on the ground and measured the rear ride height at 677mm or 26.75” both left and right. Top of the wheel fender to ground. My stock suspension measured 677mm left rear and 684mm right rear before installing the Ohlins. I set the spring adjuster at 35mm. Instructions were vague calling for 30 to 40mm so I split the difference. I will likely drop the ride height by 10mm but want to get the front done to see where the car ends up.

The ride height for the R is about 5mm lower than the GTI, both in Europe and North America. My understanding is that the product redesign is to permit lowering more than 0.5" under the stock ride height. My 265/35R18 tires prevent significant lowering so I opted not to wait for the redesigned product. Fwiw, my car is set to 25 ⅞ front and 26 ⅛ rear.
 

Mini7

Autocross Newbie
Location
Charlotte, NC
Car(s)
2017 GTi Sport PP
The ride height for the R is about 5mm lower than the GTI, both in Europe and North America. My understanding is that the product redesign is to permit lowering more than 0.5" under the stock ride height. My 265/35R18 tires prevent significant lowering so I opted not to wait for the redesigned product. Fwiw, my car is set to 25 ⅞ front and 26 ⅛ rear.

Cliff thanks for the ride height info. I was going to ask what rake I should run from to rear on the GTi. About .25” or 6.4mm

I believe your info is correct on the MQB Ohlins redesign.

I’m looking at a modest drop of 1/2” to 5/8” in ride height to maintain maximum tire/fender clearance. So will likely start with your ride heights.
 

Cliff

Drag Racing Champion
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Car(s)
2015 Cayman GTS
Cliff thanks for the ride height info. I was going to ask what rake I should run from to rear on the GTi. About .25” or 6.4mm

I believe your info is correct on the MQB Ohlins redesign.

I’m looking at a modest drop of 1/2” to 5/8” in ride height to maintain maximum tire/fender clearance. So will likely start with your ride heights.

The 3rd photo down in this post has a good view of the ride height: https://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showpost.php?p=861476&postcount=93

If I was going to limit myself to 255 section width tires I could probably come down another half inch and possibly a bit more.
 

victorofhavoc

Autocross Newbie
Location
Kansas City
Cliff thanks for the ride height info. I was going to ask what rake I should run from to rear on the GTi. About .25” or 6.4mm

I believe your info is correct on the MQB Ohlins redesign.

I’m looking at a modest drop of 1/2” to 5/8” in ride height to maintain maximum tire/fender clearance. So will likely start with your ride heights.

Regarding rake, when I had my mss springs I ran 5mm at first, then 15, and then just had a corner balance which varied 25mm on one side and 14mm on se other if i recall correctly. The corner balance felt the best and gave me the most consistent lap times. I got rid of the mss because they didn't fit the strut properly. I didn't notice a huge difference between the 5 and 15mm rake. Maybe there was a bit less squat and dive, but if there was, it wasn't perceptible to me, and I usually notice tiny things like wheel weights sliding or a chunk of tar stuck in the wheel.
 

Crild

Drag Race Newbie
Location
Florida
You guys and your rake comparison. I'm still enjoying my ED springs on stock shocks and loving it. Those ohlins have my eye tho still.
 

Mini7

Autocross Newbie
Location
Charlotte, NC
Car(s)
2017 GTi Sport PP
Ok, so I completed my Ohlins install this weekend. The Ohlins were paired with a set of Vorshlag caster/camber plates. Vorshlag make some quality parts and they are racers, so their gear gets R&D’d on track. I know that spherical camber plates will not be for everyone, but our cars need camber for the track if you do not want kill the outside shoulder. They simply bolt to the top of the shaft and get torqued to spec.

On the RHS I set the Caster to the stock position (forward position in the oval cutout). On the LHS I set it to the full Caster position (all the way back in the oval cutout). Using the angle finder on my phone, it appears to give you an additional degree of Caster. Not sure what this will translate to on an alignment machine. I am also very curious as to whether this will move the tire forward any….? The pivot on the bottom is fixed at the ball joint and the Vorshlag Caster plate is moving the upper location backwards. I will test tire/fender clearance with additional Caster after my fall DE season. FYI – you can adjust the caster without removing the coilover. Remove the nuts on the top bolts and drop the strut. There is sufficient clearance to access the countersunk locking bolts on the caster/camber plate. You are working blind and by touch to get your 3/16” allen wrench located on each bolt. I turned the camber plate and tilted it fender side down to provide a little additional clearance.
Definitely set your preferred Caster before installing the coilovers. I have SuperPro 018K’s LCA’s which already provide an additional 1-degree of Caster without creating any tire clearance issues for a 255-35-18, so I took the conservative approach and kept the Caster location on the Vorshlag plate in the stock position. Now I know that I can dial in additional Caster, without having to remove the complete strut. Some time and patience is all that is needed to make the change.

I used the 2x4 method to remove stock struts from the knuckle. I bolted the 2x4 to the upper endlink mounting tab on the shock. I did not disconnect the ball joint or the drive shaft. On the RHS, I was able to slide the Ohlin into the knuckle. On the LHS, I did not have sufficient clearance and had to use the 2x4 to compress the spring slightly to get the bottom of the Ohlin to clear the knuckle and get it into position. It was the adjuster screw that would not clear. This was my first time doing coilovers on this car and it went smoothly. Initially I had trouble getting the RHS Ohlin to seat fully to get the pinch bolt through and quickly found that I had to move the knuckle spreader to the top position. Nooby error.

I maxed out the camber on the Vorshlag plates before locking it all down. Left the front sway disconnected while I wait on some adjustable endlinks. Very interested in what the before camber reading is from the alignment today. The initial short drive to make sure that I had no shock knock from the mounts, was promising. The ride is firmer on the 450lb Swift springs. Front shock’s were set at 6 from hard. Rears were full soft. Front end feels responsive even with the front sway disconnected. Initial impressions seem promising. Got to get it aligned and get some miles on the new setup.
 

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Mini7

Autocross Newbie
Location
Charlotte, NC
Car(s)
2017 GTi Sport PP
It’s my daily.

My Cooper S has spherical top mounts. Spherical front LCA and spherical rear trailing arm mounts on 450lbs springs. My Mini was my daily for 108,000miles. Camber plates went it at 20,000miles. The LCA and rear trailing arm mounts went in the last 20,000miles.

My candy ass survived driving my supercharged Mini. The later turbo charged Minis had a more forgiving ride.

I understand that this will not be for everyone. If you track on a regular basis with your daily, you will be wearing out tires prematurely without additional camber.
 
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