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2017 GTi PP at VIR

Cliff

Drag Racing Champion
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Car(s)
2015 Cayman GTS
Hankook RS4's really are the tread wear kings and give up very little to the RE71R after they warm up.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

I'm a big Dunlop ZIII fan for HPDE tires. They are grippy enough for my needs with far more grip than MPSS for example. I get 10+ days out of a set along with the daily driven miles necessary to accumulate 10+ track days over the course of 9 months. For autocross, I recently put a set of 265/35R18 RE71R on a second set of wheels. Those plus a set of Ohlins, a Wavetrac, and some other stuff getting installed this week should carry me about as far down the STU path as I want to go with a daily driven car.

I had a set of V1 RS3's way back when, and they were ice cubes when cold and therefore useless for autocross. They could never get enough heat in them at autocross events to become grippy. The new version of the tire is not tempting enough for me to spend money on a set.
 

DarkArrow

Drag Racing Champion
Location
OC
Car(s)
'18 R
They make tons of noise and even more over bumps. Took me forever to make them refund me for their janky product.

If you daily your car or drive on the street 100% not worth it. Even if it's track only idk it will creak and groan in the paddock like an 1800's ship.

Not in my experience. Sorry you must have received a defective product or installed it wrong. As I posted, the average person wouldn't notice a difference in my car. When I rode in Cliff's car, I didn't notice any significant difference either.

Your tires will love the added camber. I am having a new production version of the plates installed with all the other stuff this week (the diff took longer than expected so the car won't be ready until Monday).

I'm only running -2 degrees, since it's still my daily. I'm excited to feel the difference at BW, and also to hear your impressions on the diff. Since my clutch will eventually need to be replaced (I'm hoping it lasts through SMMR), I'm wondering if the diff is worthwhile to do while the transmission is already out.
 

Cliff

Drag Racing Champion
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Car(s)
2015 Cayman GTS
I'm only running -2 degrees, since it's still my daily. I'm excited to feel the difference at BW, and also to hear your impressions on the diff. Since my clutch will eventually need to be replaced (I'm hoping it lasts through SMMR), I'm wondering if the diff is worthwhile to do while the transmission is already out.

Dropping the transmission is a huge part of the cost of doing the diff. I am having Griffin install a Tyrolsport deadset kit, Superpro LCA bushes, and doing a fluid service on the bevel box while the transmission is out of the car. See the build thread linked in my sig for details on all that stuff.

edit: and, of course, catch a ride with me at BW. I'll be there all 3 days. I'll be sharing garage #1 over the weekend at the west end of the row of garages.
 
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Mini7

Autocross Champion
Location
Charlotte, NC
Car(s)
2017 GTi Sport PP
Goodwood Revival

Some of the best Historic Racing that I’ve had the privilege to watch was at this race track. If anyone has the opportunity to visit England over the Summer, plan your trip around the Goodwood Festival of Speed (Hillclimb) and the Goodwood Revival (Historic Road Racing). If you are into History, you will see a lot of WW2 re-enactment clubs present in period uniform with all the military gear. There was a P51, ME 109E, Spitfire and Hurricane parked on the infield airfield when I attended. Pilots hanging out in deck chairs in there sheep skin leather jackets. Really, really cool.

https://youtu.be/IlUG2-8DJmI

St Mary’s cup with some of my favorite cars.
https://youtu.be/wru5CPm4H1A
https://youtu.be/0Tt4mSImzSA
https://youtu.be/HBHfsb2ICbE

https://youtu.be/BLDnEDqu9uU

Mk1 GTi running up front.
https://youtu.be/eVxoDNM8cn8

https://youtu.be/KoLh9SRkwSM
 

3rdOne

Go Kart Champion
Location
NC
Those look like great events. They have been on my list for a while now. I bet you had a great time.
 

Mini7

Autocross Champion
Location
Charlotte, NC
Car(s)
2017 GTi Sport PP
Yup!

The events are different but are both super cool to attend. For the hillclimb you are surprisingly close to the action. Separated by 4-5 rows of hay bales. Some cars give it the full beans up the hill while others will take a more leisurely pace. The Revival is full of history. People get dressed up in 50’s and 60’s fashion. The ladies enjoy it and go all out. I bought my lunch in a huge WW2 era mess tent. My beer came in a can without a ring pull. WTF, I thought this was a bad joke.....until I was shown to a gadget similar to the ones used to punch two holes into an oil cans at gas stations. Had no idea that was how you had to open beer back then. Lol
 

sprinks

Drag Racing Champion
Location
United States
The FoS is amazing. I went in 2016. The hillclimb is amazing. The rally course that happens concurrently with the hillclimb is also a fun detour while there. Truly a spectacular event. I'm looking to make 2020 currently. Perks of having family live in Chichester. Favorite memory was first walking up to the course, watching 3 gt40 buzz under the pedestrian crossover bridge at full chat and just laughing from the sheer thrill of it all.



Coworker went to the revival last year and loved every minute of it. Love seeing the vintage racers go around at full tilt. He and his partner dressed up to the 9s and had a great time.
 

Mini7

Autocross Champion
Location
Charlotte, NC
Car(s)
2017 GTi Sport PP
The FoS is amazing. I went in 2016. The hillclimb is amazing. The rally course that happens concurrently with the hillclimb is also a fun detour while there. Truly a spectacular event. I'm looking to make 2020 currently. Perks of having family live in Chichester. Favorite memory was first walking up to the course, watching 3 gt40 buzz under the pedestrian crossover bridge at full chat and just laughing from the sheer thrill of it all.



Coworker went to the revival last year and loved every minute of it. Love seeing the vintage racers go around at full tilt. He and his partner dressed up to the 9s and had a great time.

Both are great sporting events for any car enthusiast. Highly entertaining. The Festival of Speed has a spread of modern to historic cars. My favorite was the Zonda R NA V12 howling up the hill. The Canam cars bellowing up the hill. Totally agree with you on how the close proximity to the track means you are pummeled by the raw sound of the cars flying by.
 

Mini7

Autocross Champion
Location
Charlotte, NC
Car(s)
2017 GTi Sport PP
That may be more of a training issue for you as the driver rather than a tire issue. I think I had a similar experience with these tires. The Nitto's don't vocalize as much as a street tire. You need to push them harder but you won't get the same aural feedback. They will start to slide before they lose grip entirely, so that's your cue that you are nearing their limit of adhesion. I wasn't too comfortable driving that way on track (I only have the one car and I am not prepared to total it, so I drive accordingly), so I am going back to 200tw street tires. I will probably try the A052's after I wear out my ZIII's to see if they last longer on track than the RE71R's did while offering a similar level of performance

I would agree with you. Was expecting an improvement in overall mechanical grip but did not get that communicative feedback and thus didn’t have confidence that the front end would hookup on turn in. Still feel that I don’t have the tire pressures dialed in and will look at upping my cold starting pressures.

Looking at my laptimes, I was consistently faster on the 235 MPS4S than the 245 section width MPS4S. A majority of that is down to my BBK upgrade, but there were gains in sector 3 and sector 5 at VIR which are high speed momentum sections (no brakes - carrying corner speed)

I was inconsistent with my laptimes on the NT01’s. Most probably ended up over-driving in my frustration to get the NT01’s dialed in. For the most part I can hold my own through the high speed momentum sections at VIR and generally gain time on other cars through these sections. My current driving style is to trail brake down to the apex then going to gas (most probably to aggressively). I’m not spinning my wheels but I know when I mess up as I get power understeer - Turn 5 being the one I tend to overdrive.

One of the changes I am planning to make is to try and roll speed through the apex and pick up the throttle after the apex. Been watching your Laguna Seca footage. Right now, I do not have confidence that the front end will hookup to roll more speed through the apex. Öhlins with 8k springs front & rear along with more camber should help in this regard. So going to work on be a little more patient. Change my driving style through the slower more technical sections and see how that translates into car speed.

This was on a wet to drying track on my NT01’s. Sector 1 is a slow corner after a big brake zone. Sector 2 is very technical. Sector 3 is momentum. Sector 4 requires a good launch out of T-12 for the longest straight. Sector 5 is a technical sequence of flowing corners onto the front straight.

This clip has my best sector 2 time.
https://youtu.be/W0nd9X1bVoo

Go to 3:42 for lap#7 which is my fastest lap around VIR. I have a rabbit in the 911 Turbo which gives me a target to chase. My exits onto the front straight are pretty good. Lap#8 the white Porsche kills my momentum through the uphill esses.

https://youtu.be/fzyN7yPQ1HU
 
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I know I can push a set of 200tw tires to there limits at speeds up to 70mph, but it'll be interesting to see if I can trust the grip at higher speeds with things like walls around. Lol. I think you did well. Also, I was faster in my Miata on 225's and limited camber than I was on 255's and full on suspension for quit a while autocrossing when I moved classes. I spent 2 years honing the alignment, playing with sway bars and know that cars every move before it did it. It was weird having so much grip with the 255's and I just couldn't rotate the car the same, which is why the old setup was faster until I could get the stickier tires to rotate and be predictable. So what I'm saying is, the stickier tires may require some alignment/suspension changes to get the most out of them.

I've been running the Jetta TDI cup car in iracing to learn Road Atlanta and Sebring, as I'm hoping to do one of them early next year.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
 

Cliff

Drag Racing Champion
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Car(s)
2015 Cayman GTS
My current driving style is to trail brake down to the apex then going to gas (most probably to aggressively).

That's basically how you do it in these cars. The R really puts down the power on track out, but trail braking as long as you can until you've reached the apex and begin to straighten the wheel. Then squeeze on the throttle until you're at 100% throttle and stay on it until you get to the next braking zone. Note that I said squeeze and not mash - throttle and brake applications need to be smooth but committed so as not to upset the balance of the car.

You may want to consider buying yourself an AiM Solo or SoloDL. Their Race Studio Analysis software will be abler to give you some insights on where you can improve. AiM has an excellent Youtube channel with a lot of instructional videos. I'd suggest reviewing some of their introductory videos to see how their software works.

I know I can push a set of 200tw tires to there limits at speeds up to 70mph, but it'll be interesting to see if I can trust the grip at higher speeds with things like walls around.

I've been up to 135 on my Dunlops (on the Fontana Roval at Fastivus and at the Ridge in Washington state) and they're fine.
 

Mini7

Autocross Champion
Location
Charlotte, NC
Car(s)
2017 GTi Sport PP
I work on rolling off the gas and rolling onto the brakes. Hard at first and then trailing into the apex before rolling back onto the gas. Turn - 1 for example is an exercise in grip management. Open the wheel, add gas, open the wheel and add throttle. 5a/lower snake at VIR requires a lift to tuck the nose before rolling onto the throttle. This is where I need to be a little patient and roll onto the throttle. I tend to be too aggressive with throttle application here.

Aim is on my list of driver aids/learning tools. I want to be able to overlay my line trace to see my best sector time correlated with my line trace for lap comparisons. Do you get brake pressure and steering angle with the Aim Solo?

Cliff what are the parameters you find helpful using the Aim system? What do you look at to make improvements?
I am comfortable with my lines and brake points and am pretty consistent when I have clear track. At least I was on the Michelins. Especially after the BBK install. Prior on the PP brakes I was forever having to adjust my brake points. I don’t have Turn 1 dialed in and see that as an opportunity. I’m comfortable with Sectors 2 & 3. My Turn 11-12 sequence is another opportunity for improvement onto the back straight. The rest I am very comfortable running.
 

victorofhavoc

Autocross Champion
Location
Kansas City
One of the biggest benefits of going tuned for me has been the ability to left foot brake and build boost while trail braking. It really helps to just rocket out of corners. That's where I catch much faster cars regularly. No the PP brakes can't modulate well enough at the limit, nor can they really grip and release properly coming down from around 130mph, but tuning really wakes up the throttle response and the boost while braking.

You're really going about things the right way, and your line is pretty solid. Keep at it brother!
 

Cliff

Drag Racing Champion
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Car(s)
2015 Cayman GTS
Aim is on my list of driver aids/learning tools. I want to be able to overlay my line trace to see my best sector time correlated with my line trace for lap comparisons. Do you get brake pressure and steering angle with the Aim Solo?

No, that information is not available from the OBDII port, and the CAN bus driver that works with the Mk7 Golf is actually for the SEAT Leon and does not provide steering angle or brake pressure (it has a BP channel but it comes back with zeroes). My AiM unit is wired into the CAN bus and the only useful addition I get versus the OBDII connection is a brake on/off toggle. I combine that with longitudinal acceleration in a math channel to produce a calculated brake pressure.

Cliff what are the parameters you find helpful using the Aim system? What do you look at to make improvements?
I am comfortable with my lines and brake points and am pretty consistent when I have clear track. At least I was on the Michelins. Especially after the BBK install. Prior on the PP brakes I was forever having to adjust my brake points. I don’t have Turn 1 dialed in and see that as an opportunity. I’m comfortable with Sectors 2 & 3. My Turn 11-12 sequence is another opportunity for improvement onto the back straight. The rest I am very comfortable running.

The time/distance plot is where I spend the most time. Roger Caddell likes to use a calculated value called gsum, and I find it useful too. It's the square root of (lat acceleration^2 + long acceleration^2) and represents how hard you're pushing the car. There is a video discussing it's use (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPnYF8aGwF8) and I am not going to attempt to repeat that information in a forum post.

I typically overlay a couple of laps and look for segments where I gained or lost time, then drill into those to try to understand why. I may need to refer back to video I've taken to help me understand why one lap was different than the other. For me this analysis is done after the event since if I am instructing, I just don't have much time to spend on me type stuff.
 
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