2017 GTi PP at VIR

[Mini7]

I couldn’t make this weekend.

 

[GTIfan99]

Probably the best place to post. My buddy Jonathan, he codrives with me autocrosses, was invited by Pikes Peak to run the 100th anniversary. He's a previous fwd record holder. He's putting an effort together to make another record run. He's been selling t-shirts to raise money and has gotten some sponsors. If you want to support his run, you can PM him for a shirt on FB or let me know.

Mini 7, if you don't want this in your thread, let me know and I'll take it out, I just figured the track oriented would appreciate how tough it is to field a car.

They took one of his TCA Civics, stuffed big 295's, and a modded CTR engine in it.

https://www.facebook.com/646231817/posts/10158831400341818

If you're interested, here's a live link to the 14 hr race at Daytona today, they're running a TCA spec Civic. Of note, fastest lap 2:17. Fastest lap for my car at Daytona was 2:19 for reference.

 

[Mini7]

No problem for me. I think it’s a cool project.

When’s the race and what car is he going to use?

 

[scrllock]

As an aside, a buddy of mine is at VIR right now with his Golf R running 3.12 front pads and DS2500 rears. He said it's awful and drove to Charlotte to buy 1.11 rear pads to make it drivable.

I mean yeah the tail wags and you're into the ABS in every braking zone a bit, but IMO it was better than pad fade one lap to the next. I think I may just be used to the feeling from tracking my Mazda2 for so long. (Super short wheelbase, narrower, high COG, and literally never wore down the rear brake shoes in 186k and probably 3-4000mi on track plus 600 autox runs).

He's stage 1 in an R, so higher speeds, and likely different ABS programming but I figured I'd mention it here for future reference.

Too much front bias or...?

 

[GTIfan99]

No problem for me. I think it’s a cool project.

When’s the race and what car is he going to use?

He's got two factory build TCA Civic SI, one has been modified for Pikes Peak with a new tire/ wheel/ brake combo and a modified CTR drive train.

The other car finished fifth in the 14 hr WRL race at Daytona yesterday.

Pikes Peak starts 26 June.

 

[DerHase]

Too much front bias or...?

Yep. The front pads grip harder and harder as they warm up more, the rear pads get weaker and weaker as the session goes on. If you look at the torque curves on the previous page from Ferodo, you’ll see exactly what I mean. I would take it any day over the front pads fading completely though.

In other news I swapped my 2500s back on since I probably won’t be on track for a few more months in this car, currently making arrangements so I can run a champ car race in a friends SVT focus at the VIR 24hr.

The 3.12s only wore 0.5mm (new is 19mm) with a LOT of track time (8 30min sessions, though I was probably only out a total of 3hrs total). Very promising if I can get a good pad that matches in the rear. Works out to ~0.25mm/day, and because I got a lot more track time than you do with most groups, I imagine that’s on the higher end of anticipated wear rates.

My DS2500s were worn somewhere between 0.75-0.92mm/day on track. The fudge factor there is partially because there’s a little bit of street driving on them(albeit nearly all highway), and it also depends on where you measure since they tapered a good bit between 15.2mm and 16.0mm. So at least 3x the wear rate while costing half as much as the DS3.12s DOES seem to make them less cost effective in the long run. The 3.12 premium appears it'll be worth it. We will see long term.

For reference, 12mm is when the pad friction material will = backing plate thickness, which rule of thumb on track means time for new ones. I'm hopeful I'll get 12-14 days on track with this set.

Also happy to report no dust boot problems. There is a shim on the back these pads come with which may be helping those live.

There is a tiny bit of heat checking going on the rotors, these have seen all 6 days at VIR I've done with both DS2500s and 3.12s. Still fine to get at least another 2-4 days before replacement. There are no noticeable grooves or raised edges to indicate the pads are doing much of anything to them wear-wise which is nice. Means less iron dust on the wheels and down the side of the car which sucks to clean off.

Edit: also my buddy at VIR now with his R said the 1.11s out back made a world of difference and it just hauls the thing down to a stop now. Looks like I'll be trying the DS3000s out back(since 1.11s are not avail for the GTI mech parking brake rear caliper).

 

[Mini7]

Good to hear the DS1.11 worked well on the R. I want to rebleed my rear calipers before trying to bed my pads in. I will see whether the green temp paint changes color. I’ll need to get over 430C.

At 400C the DS3000/DS1.11/DSUNO pads have there brake torque curves all converge. If that’s the case the DS3000 will work. It will take some getting used too, as the rear brakes will get more bite halfway into the session as the DS3000’s build heat. Regardless of rotor temps, the DS3000’s will be better than the DS 2500’s. If you can get all 4-corners to squat under braking then that is a win. That will remove some load off the front tires.

 

[scrllock]

Yep. The front pads grip harder and harder as they warm up more, the rear pads get weaker and weaker as the session goes on. If you look at the torque curves on the previous page from Ferodo, you’ll see exactly what I mean. I would take it any day over the front pads fading completely though.

In other news I swapped my 2500s back on since I probably won’t be on track for a few more months in this car, currently making arrangements so I can run a champ car race in a friends SVT focus at the VIR 24hr.

The 3.12s only wore 0.5mm (new is 19mm) with a LOT of track time (8 30min sessions, though I was probably only out a total of 3hrs total). Very promising if I can get a good pad that matches in the rear. Works out to ~0.25mm/day, and because I got a lot more track time than you do with most groups, I imagine that’s on the higher end of anticipated wear rates.

My DS2500s were worn somewhere between 0.75-0.92mm/day on track. The fudge factor there is partially because there’s a little bit of street driving on them(albeit nearly all highway), and it also depends on where you measure since they tapered a good bit between 15.2mm and 16.0mm. So at least 3x the wear rate while costing half as much as the DS3.12s DOES seem to make them less cost effective in the long run. The 3.12 premium appears it'll be worth it. We will see long term.

For reference, 12mm is when the pad friction material will = backing plate thickness, which rule of thumb on track means time for new ones. I'm hopeful I'll get 12-14 days on track with this set.

Also happy to report no dust boot problems. There is a shim on the back these pads come with which may be helping those live.

There is a tiny bit of heat checking going on the rotors, these have seen all 6 days at VIR I've done with both DS2500s and 3.12s. Still fine to get at least another 2-4 days before replacement. There are no noticeable grooves or raised edges to indicate the pads are doing much of anything to them wear-wise which is nice. Means less iron dust on the wheels and down the side of the car which sucks to clean off.

Edit: also my buddy at VIR now with his R said the 1.11s out back made a world of difference and it just hauls the thing down to a stop now. Looks like I'll be trying the DS3000s out back(since 1.11s are not avail for the GTI mech parking brake rear caliper).

Ugh. Good to know the 1.11s work well but those are gnarly on the street. Wish there was a decent rear BBK option for the EPB. The Ferodo selection for the 4-pot brembos is so nice in comparison to any of the stock Mk7 calipers.

 

[Mini7]

Going to a more aggressive rear pad will take it out of the streetable criteria.

I don’t believe the DS3.12 is streetable without impacting rotor and pad life negatively.

 

[DerHase]

I'm at the point that I don't care about streetability AS LONG AS there is something the track pads are compatible with something streetable (DS2500). absolutely hate having to swap rotors though… Especially on the rear on these vehicles

i’m not opposed to inspecting the car before and after an event… In the past I have caught a brake pad completely separated from the backing plate upon disassembly. Not catching that could have been a very bad day on track for the next time out. Only the rivets were holding the friction material fore-aft.

 

[scrllock]

Yeah, the DS2500 compatibility is one reason I like Ferodo. Have you guys tried 1.1 Front, 2500 rear? 3.12 seems a bit aggressive for me.

 

[DerHase]

1.11 isn't available for the PP fronts. I emailed Essex about cutting custom pads and was told nope.

 

[GTIfan99]

The Macan setup uses 1001 backing plates. It's a pretty easy swap. The common pad was one of the reasons I chose these calipers.

I'm still not happy with brake balance, but I think I'll eventually get where I want it to be.

 

[scrllock]

1.11 isn't available for the PP fronts. I emailed Essex about cutting custom pads and was told nope.

Ah, bummer. Going to move to a 4-pot brembo setup before I swap pads again, forgot how meager the stock setup's options are. Probably worth looking at g-loc/isweep or something with more options on the stock calipers.

 

[Mini7]

I'm at the point that I don't care about streetability AS LONG AS there is something the track pads are compatible with something streetable (DS2500). absolutely hate having to swap rotors though… Especially on the rear on these vehicles

i’m not opposed to inspecting the car before and after an event… In the past I have caught a brake pad completely separated from the backing plate upon disassembly. Not catching that could have been a very bad day on track for the next time out. Only the rivets were holding the friction material fore-aft.

For Track Rats who dual duty there cars, you have to go to a dual pad strategy. Get a setup that works on track and then street pads.

I’ve gone the BBK route and I firmly believe that I need a more aggressive rear pad like we have been discussing. I think I can compress the brake zone if I eliminate the nose dive I’m currently getting.