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2017 GTi PP at VIR

DerHase

Autocross Champion
Location
Hampton Roads, VA
Car(s)
2019 GTI Rabbit
After looking around and finding that nearly NO manufacturers offer ALL available compounds both front AND rear... it seems that I may try some Raybestos ST43s front and rear next time. LOTS of people swear by these pads. They make a ton of noise but apparently are amazing in basically every other way. Bonus is they're a bit cheaper than the Ferodo compounds.

1654048462411.png


Comes out to $651 shipped for both front AND rear in the ST43 compound.
https://porterfield-brakes.com/search-result/?years=2016&make=60&model=6184&manufacturer=7452
 

scrllock

Autocross Champion
Location
MI
After looking around and finding that nearly NO manufacturers offer ALL available compounds both front AND rear... it seems that I may try some Raybestos ST43s front and rear next time. LOTS of people swear by these pads. They make a ton of noise but apparently are amazing in basically every other way. Bonus is they're a bit cheaper than the Ferodo compounds.

View attachment 250980

Comes out to $651 shipped for both front AND rear in the ST43 compound.
https://porterfield-brakes.com/search-result/?years=2016&make=60&model=6184&manufacturer=7452
Do you need that aggressive of a pad on both axles? Part of why I like the 2500s so much is that they're good enough for the rear that they don't need to be swapped back and forth.
 

DerHase

Autocross Champion
Location
Hampton Roads, VA
Car(s)
2019 GTI Rabbit
Do you need that aggressive of a pad on both axles? Part of why I like the 2500s so much is that they're good enough for the rear that they don't need to be swapped back and forth.

So that's the thing... I'm not really sure yet until we try something 😬 Pretty sure the stock brake system uses similar compounds front and rear.

Actually looking at the two charts it looks like the ST43 out back may be a pretty decent match to 3.12 fronts... Have to convert deg between them.

Deg C / Deg F / 3.12 mu / ST43 mu

200C / 392F / 0.50 / 0.55
300C / 572F / 0.52 / 0.525ish
400C / 752F / 0.53 / 0.53ish
500C / 932F / 0.54 / 0.535ish
600C / 1112F / 0.54 / 0.535ish

I don't think the ST43s on THE REAR will get much over 300C.

I imagine the fronts are over 700C based strictly on me losing pedal feel... The torque drops off like a rock above 650C on DS2500s, where the 3.12s just keep going flat across not fading.

From the looks of it cold, they'll be a bit grabby but hopefully the electronic brake force distribution will be able to pull pressure from the rear to compensate a bit easier. As a general rule of thumb those systems can lower pressure easier than adding it.

I'll have to get another set of rotors and those pads to try before next time out.

Also need to get some temp paint. Any recommendations? @Mini7
 

Mini7

Autocross Champion
Location
Charlotte, NC
Car(s)
2017 GTi Sport PP
TEMP PAINT

@DerHase
This is where I bought my Brembo paint kit. All the kits appear to use the same 3-color temp paints. This was the cheapest vendor I found.

Corner 3 Motorsport
https://www.corner3motorsports.com/product/brembo-high-temperature-paint/
Description
“Brake disc paint is for people who regularly track their vehicles (typically used in racing) or have vehicles that are hard on brakes in which it’s a good idea to keep brake disc temperatures in check.

Aside from a pyrometer, thermometer, or infrared sensors, Brembo Racing rotor paints are the most cost-effective solution to managing brake disc temperatures.
  • Green: 430C/806F
  • Orange: 560C/1040F
  • Red: 610C/1130F
Once they reach the specified temp range, they oxidize which turns them green/red: white or an orange/off-white (yellowish tint). If they reach the peak temperature.
Tech tip: disc paint should be painted liberally onto the entire width of the disc including vane and rotor cheeks.
A cost-effective method to monitor braking temperatures for optimizing brake setup, compounds.”

The AP kit sells for $250 and appears to be the same. Racetech also sells a kit out of the UK. Equis USA came up as a vendor and had a nice write up. Links are below.

https://www.exquisusa.com/shop-pro-system/pro-system-rotor-temperature-paint-kit

https://www.exquisusa.com/blog/2017/7/28/rotor-temperature-paint-tutorial
 

Mini7

Autocross Champion
Location
Charlotte, NC
Car(s)
2017 GTi Sport PP
So I have used ST43’s on the front of my Cooper S. They are a great track pad. High initial bite. You have to finesse the brakes not to overwhelm the front tires. These pads need to be swopped as soon as possible. Driving to and from the track shouldn’t be an issue. I was enjoying the added brake performance on the road and left them in for a week. Not a problem as long as you still have a transfer layer. 3-weeks later the pads were down to the backing plate and I had killed a set of performance friction rotor rings. Lesson Learnt!!

Looking at the Mu curves, the ST38 or ST77 may be better for the rear. I would agree that the rear will not likely get over 572F, making these two an option. I think PP fronts are getting closer to 900F. I didn’t burn off the paint on my calipers like some have and I registered 410F on the caliper.
 

Mini7

Autocross Champion
Location
Charlotte, NC
Car(s)
2017 GTi Sport PP
Rear rotors have been painted.

95D18AE1-63FF-4573-8E03-776C1A6A979B.jpeg


Rear pad wear was even on both sides so it would appear that I do not have a caliper that is hanging up. The slide pins move freely.
I will be re-checking my alignment.
 

Mini7

Autocross Champion
Location
Charlotte, NC
Car(s)
2017 GTi Sport PP
@GTIfan99 what advice do you have for running at Daytona?

I plan on running the Roval at Charlotte Motor speedway. I will add a couple psi extra pressure to the right side tires. Is there anything else I should do?
 

GTIfan99

Autocross Champion
Location
FL
@GTIfan99 what advice do you have for running at Daytona?

I plan on running the Roval at Charlotte Motor speedway. I will add a couple psi extra pressure to the right side tires. Is there anything else I should do?
I honestly think the oval type road courses are easier on the car than most dedicated road courses, so nothing special.

The main thing to consider is braking stability when braking from much higher speeds.

At Roebling or FIRM, I'm lucky to touch 130. At Daytona, I'm braking into turn 1 and the bus stop from close to 150.

You have more power than I do, so you could be higher speeds.
 

Mini7

Autocross Champion
Location
Charlotte, NC
Car(s)
2017 GTi Sport PP
Wow I wasn’t even thinking about the Vmax. I need to look at a track map to see how much oval is part of the course. It’s 3 sessions maybe 4 I cannot remember. I’m thought the right side outer shoulder will take a beating.
 

GTIfan99

Autocross Champion
Location
FL
Wow I wasn’t even thinking about the Vmax. I need to look at a track map to see how much oval is part of the course. It’s 3 sessions maybe 4 I cannot remember. I’m thought the right side outer shoulder will take a beating.
Honestly, no, tire wear in the oval bits is minimal. At speed, you're being pushed down, not laterally.
 

Mini7

Autocross Champion
Location
Charlotte, NC
Car(s)
2017 GTi Sport PP
Ok. Good to know. Thanks.
 

DerHase

Autocross Champion
Location
Hampton Roads, VA
Car(s)
2019 GTI Rabbit
As an aside, a buddy of mine is at VIR right now with his Golf R running 3.12 front pads and DS2500 rears. He said it's awful and drove to Charlotte to buy 1.11 rear pads to make it drivable.

I mean yeah the tail wags and you're into the ABS in every braking zone a bit, but IMO it was better than pad fade one lap to the next. :unsure: I think I may just be used to the feeling from tracking my Mazda2 for so long. (Super short wheelbase, narrower, high COG, and literally never wore down the rear brake shoes in 186k and probably 3-4000mi on track plus 600 autox runs).

He's stage 1 in an R, so higher speeds, and likely different ABS programming but I figured I'd mention it here for future reference.
 

Mini7

Autocross Champion
Location
Charlotte, NC
Car(s)
2017 GTi Sport PP
Is that the Blue R? What times is he running?
 
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