2017 GTi PP at VIR

[M3bs1]

2:10 is a great time for a GTI, especially having to navigate around slow Porsches. I wouldn’t put much stock in the virtual best numbers. I use an Aim data logger, and I’ve tried to analyze the split data. When I get into the dirt with analyzing split times I usually find out that it is using some suspect data if it is off several seconds from actual time. Even good data often shows that time gained in one sector might compromise the next one when using a different line or technique. As such, the theoretical best will never be the real world possible best time.

You seem to be pretty serious about this stuff. Maybe it’s time to step up your data collection game from your HLT setup.

I’m hoping to get to VIR with my GT4 some time this year. I’d love to see if I can keep up!

 

[Mini7]

I’m looking at an AIM Solo DL to step up the data collection. Waiting to get confirmation that AIM has off the shelf drivers for the Mk7.

Harry’s is directionally correct, if not 100% accurate. Video without data is just fun to watch. Video with data offers coaching opportunities. A list of lap times are just a bunch of numbers without perspective. Get data overlaid on video has allowed me to see where I’ve made mistakes vs. being held up by another car.

It will be good to meet up at VIR. I think you know your way around VIR and have a very capable car.

Planning on going to Barber the first weekend in April. Then will be at VIR mid April with Potomac PCA. I may do Road Atlanta in May with Chin. I want to branch out to other tracks and develop my driving further.

 

[victorofhavoc]

You might benefit from the Garmin catalyst. It's a legit coach vs just raw data. I've borrowed one for a day at two events.

Like M3bs1 said, you give up one sector to gain in another sometimes.

With a good obd2 reader and GPS Harry's can be pretty good (I can just never get it to work with my gopro, but I think that's gopros fault). On my z I get a lot of good stats into Harry's and on the gti I got throttle and boost only, just like aim. Aim is missing a lot of data on the gti, surprisingly. I never got it to catch brake, engine params, knock, or much else that obd2 offers. Catalyst gives you no physical vehicle data, but it gives you a lot in terms of position on track, braking points, acceleration points, etc that aim and Harry's make you interpret for yourself. Walking away from a session and just watching your own reply and where you can improve trackside is a huge win. Previously I did that inbetween days and it gets stressful when tech doesn't work as it should. (Stoopid freakin gopro!).

As a deeply analytical person, it has been very beneficial to have something that slaps me in the face and says "you can brake later and shorter here" as opposed to reading data and seeing I'm getting all the braking I can out of it but not realizing I can move up because entry speed is suffering.

I planned to actually buy a catalyst this year, but now I'm looking at repair costs! Lol, this sport gets expensive when you're not looking .

 

[victorofhavoc]

Planning on going to Barber the first weekend in April. Then will be at VIR mid April with Potomac PCA. I may do Road Atlanta in May with Chin. I want to branch out to other tracks and develop my driving further.

Come to NCM in March! 23 turns and lots of fun I'm told!

 

[Mini7]

So I had this conversation with a Buddy regarding the Garmin vs AIM Solo 2 DL. I really need to borrow a Garmin so I can test it out. My understanding, is it can only coach you based on historical laps you have already done. So it will only pay dividends on the back half of a weekend or subsequent weekends. I would want to experiment with lines going into T1 and then T11-T12 to see what works best.

The positive is that it is able to provide real time coaching which is great. Just in time for the next corner. So from that perspective I think it is a great tool. For a grand you have your lap times and video overlay taken care of. I’m assuming that video is quickly downloaded to be able to view between sessions?? Definitely a handy tool to learn from quickly.

I agree that getting the overlaid data onto video after a session is important to learn from. Especially if you are experimenting with different lines. I used to do this in the evening, but had issues with my iPad saying that I didn’t have sufficient memory to download the GoPro video, when I had plenty. Lately I had issues downloading the days Harry Lap Timer data onto my iPad. I had to use a backup email file as a work around. HLT can be buggy sometimes.

With AIM you have to drop $2k for their camera and Solo 2 DL to get a quick painless data overlay. I was planning to link the AIM data with GoPro video initially. It’s a pain that GoPro video cuts off at 17mins. Then you have to splice two sections together before being able to overlay the data. I’ve learnt that getting a good nights rest at the track is important. Spending hours with HLT/GoPro Video etc. is not the best use of an evening at the track. I’ve quit stressing over GoPro’s acting up. Its better to keep focused on staying safe on track.

I spoke to Peter Krause the last time I was at VIR. For MQB cars, we need to tap into the canbus to get relevant data. But AIM needs to create a Driver to pull the data and convert it into useable information. I do not want to code brake pressure signals etc. to read correctly after spending all that money. Plus AIM has the expertise on staff to write the code. So right now I’m on the fence waiting for AIM.

What happened to the Zee $$ ?

 

[M3bs1]

I guess there's an advantage to using an old model GoPro. My Hero2 will record well over 40 minutes without splitting files. That works out to just under 4GB for my camera and settings. I'm maxed out at 30 fps. Newer models record at a higher frame rate? Maybe you can cut that back to 30 fps to get more time.

I'm hoping to pick up a used Smartycam/Solo2DL setup later this year so I can get the canbus info in the new car.

 

[victorofhavoc]

I guess there's an advantage to using an old model GoPro. My Hero2 will record well over 40 minutes without splitting files. That works out to just under 4GB for my camera and settings. I'm maxed out at 30 fps. Newer models record at a higher frame rate? Maybe you can cut that back to 30 fps to get more time.

I'm hoping to pick up a used Smartycam/Solo2DL setup later this year so I can get the canbus info in the new car.

It's part frame rate, part sensor hot, and part resolution/file type limits.

With how advanced image sensors have gotten, people forget video image sensors need a lot of cooling and 30 mins on is actually a ton! To do that regularly and reliably, professional cameras get into the tens of thousands. The image sensors in gopro and cellphones are cheap tiny things that shut themselves off to prevent damage. My gopro on a hot day will easily cook itself and insta-die on track.

 

[victorofhavoc]

So I had this conversation with a Buddy regarding the Garmin vs AIM Solo 2 DL. I really need to borrow a Garmin so I can test it out. My understanding, is it can only coach you based on historical laps you have already done. So it will only pay dividends on the back half of a weekend or subsequent weekends. I would want to experiment with lines going into T1 and then T11-T12 to see what works best.

The positive is that it is able to provide real time coaching which is great. Just in time for the next corner. So from that perspective I think it is a great tool. For a grand you have your lap times and video overlay taken care of. I’m assuming that video is quickly downloaded to be able to view between sessions?? Definitely a handy tool to learn from quickly.

I agree that getting the overlaid data onto video after a session is important to learn from. Especially if you are experimenting with different lines. I used to do this in the evening, but had issues with my iPad saying that I didn’t have sufficient memory to download the GoPro video, when I had plenty. Lately I had issues downloading the days Harry Lap Timer data onto my iPad. I had to use a backup email file as a work around. HLT can be buggy sometimes.

With AIM you have to drop $2k for their camera and Solo 2 DL to get a quick painless data overlay. I was planning to link the AIM data with GoPro video initially. It’s a pain that GoPro video cuts off at 17mins. Then you have to splice two sections together before being able to overlay the data. I’ve learnt that getting a good nights rest at the track is important. Spending hours with HLT/GoPro Video etc. is not the best use of an evening at the track. I’ve quit stressing over GoPro’s acting up. Its better to keep focused on staying safe on track.

I spoke to Peter Krause the last time I was at VIR. For MQB cars, we need to tap into the canbus to get relevant data. But AIM needs to create a Driver to pull the data and convert it into useable information. I do not want to code brake pressure signals etc. to read correctly after spending all that money. Plus AIM has the expertise on staff to write the code. So right now I’m on the fence waiting for AIM.

What happened to the Zee $$ ?

Yeah, your thoughts are aligning exactly with mine.

The catalyst only needs 2 laps before it learns your methods and compares to everything it knows about the track you're at. It then builds from there and coaches you into being faster. No need to spend a day or weekend teaching it. The big positive to it is that you're learning by the lap rather than learning by the session or day.

There are discounts to be had on it if you look around. Cheapest I saw it over the holidays was 850. Also, depending on the industry you work in if your company or employer has a relationship with Garmin you might be able to get it at a discount. I know of a few Garmin employees and Garmin partners who were able to get it for 550-750 range. My only complaint about the Garmin is the vehicle sensor input. I know a lot can be extrapolated from hp figures and g sensors, but real data input would be nice.

The z had insulating material on a spark plug that disappeared (previous owner's plugs that I changed after two events). It wasn't a ton of material, but I can only assume it made it into the engine and hopefully somehow made it out or burnt up. Last time I was out it was having issues revving past 3500rpm on two very wet laps and would surge throttle on me then cut. From what I understand the cam sensors are going (cel for these) and possibly the crank sensor melted (need to check it). I also have oil in the plug wells which means rebuilding the top end. Nothing catastrophic, but I've got a 3 day event in March that I don't want to be down for. I still need to recut and recarbon the front of the splitter after I broke it!! Haha . The list goes on from there with the gti needing a lot of tlc, and the Q7 needs all fluids done considering how much I tow with it.

 

[3rdOne]

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a38815501/vir-lightning-lap-track-day-march-15-2022/

Chance to win $1000 (basically your entry fee back) And you have driven this track enough to be quick

 

[Mini7]

Interesting! Didn’t know this was open to the public. Not sure my 2017 GTi will fall under the $34,999 cost limit to be competitive.

Also haven’t driven the Grand course before so that will be an interesting challenge not knowing half the track.

Ok. So what tires do I run? 80 TW is the limit. That means the Toyo RR’s are out. I do not like the R888R’s.
This will be an interesting exercise.

 

[3rdOne]

This is the first time I've seen it open to the public, I think its new. The Grand course is fun, tough. Bitch Corner is an aptly named, it is a bitch to get right, and I never did the one time I ran the Grand Course.
Wonder how they calculate price cap, with mods or just MSRP or what I actually paid for the car. I think my car's MSRP was above $35 but I actually paid much less.

 

[victorofhavoc]

If you're looking to win, the yoko a052 will get you there, but they'll be a one weekend tire...

Sport cup 2, v730, hoosinental are the other alternatives.

I posted this in the 200tw tire thread, but here's a list of how NASA is breaking down street tires now. The autox style 200tw have advantages of setting the fastest laps in the first 3 laps of a session, and that's typically when cars are fastest before brakes and mechanical start to overheat for TT. They're also they biggest focus of tire development recently and the 100tw category has lagged a lot.

 

[MonkeyMD]

Interesting! Didn’t know this was open to the public. Not sure my 2017 GTi will fall under the $34,999 cost limit to be competitive.

Also haven’t driven the Grand course before so that will be an interesting challenge not knowing half the track.

Ok. So what tires do I run? 80 TW is the limit. That means the Toyo RR’s are out. I do not like the R888R’s.
This will be an interesting exercise.

Goodyear supercar 3r

 

[Mini7]

The classes are based on MSRP bands 2022 with a 2.2% inflationary multiplier for older cars. I need to pull my window sticker out. It was $30-$31 for the GTi Sport. So I may just squeak in to qualify. I’m guessing that a base 2022 GTi is under $35k.

It doesn’t include mods. There are rules governing aero/suspension/no sequential gearboxes. I need to go through the rules but after a quick look there is nothing I see that would preclude me from running.

The only thing is the 80treadwear limitation for tires which is totally OK.

I’m still working on getting suspension and setup dialed in. I have all the cooling headroom I need for reliability purposes.

Getting the right tires will be about the most important variable to being competitive.

This will be an interesting discussion. So I welcome input as I have not participated in any competitive event. I know VIR’s full course really well , but have not run the Grand course so that advantage is kinda nullified.

Getting back to the tires.
I was thinking

Goodyear 3R’s: 265-35-18/245-40-18 staggered (with my GTi I’m limited in the right rear) 100tw
Yoko A052’s: 265-35-18/245-40-18 staggered
255-35-18 square 200tw
Nakang AR1’s: 255-35-18 square 100tw
Maxxiss R1’s: 265-35-18 square 100tw not sure about these??

GY 3R’s need a couple laps to warm up before being ready to go full send. I have no problem with that. Helps get the Driver warmed up.

A052’s will be good for one maybe two laps. Grand is a 4-mile lap with a lot more corners, so they will likely take a beating and be hard to “learn” during the practice sessions as you cannot run flat out for the whole session.

What tires do you run if it rains? Been incrementally moving to a “looser” setup for VIR. Not good for a cold and wet VIR. I will be leaving skid marks in my undershorts….

Wet weather tires:
Toyo RA1’s
MPS4S

 

[M3bs1]

The SC 3R works really well when up to temp, but it can be tough to get them warm, especially if you are running a lot of tire on a relatively light car. 245s on my M3 were good after 2-3 laps. 265 on the front of the GT4 took forever to heat up. I found I had to tiptoe for half a session in cool weather.