2013 Civic SI Coupe Review

[Gunkata]

I really wanna go test drive a Focus ST and the Si back to back. I will bring a picture of Granules with me...

 

[Merkle]

No joke! Its cliche but damn its fun. puttttputttputtttt*click*VVVVRRROOOOOOOOMMMMM. Its much more evolved now to keep the crossover a bit smoother, but the methodology remains the same. A simple Hondata tune can knock that crossover point down too.

I actually have a buddy running open VTEC all the time. Basically bypassed the spool valve, mechanically, to deliver constant pressure to the cam. VTEC ALWAYS KICKED IN

Doesn't that kill down low torque and RUIN your gas mileage?

I always thought 4,000 was a good place to kick it in, I usually never touch that range unless I'm up to no good.

 

[D Griff]

Anyone drive the B16B from the civic type r? I had it in my civic... no engine made as many sweet sounds as that. 9k factory redline ftmfw

Unfortunately no. I've driven a number of b series equiped cars but not a B16B or a B18C (ITR). Those things are legitimately racing engines in street cars.

There is a definitely a sense of raw attraction to the sounds of Honda induction. They actually sound more like a VVVRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMM than the GTI.

The sounds that come from my GTI are pretty disappointing. It kinda sounds like a diesel at idle, then the soundaktor takes over....

 

[Merkle]

The sounds that come from my GTI are pretty disappointing. It kinda sounds like a diesel at idle, then the soundaktor takes over....

Direct injection + soundakator just kicked in yo

 

[grambles423]

I really wanna go test drive a Focus ST and the Si back to back. I will bring a picture of Granules with me...

It'll be two VERY different...yet.....very similar experiences. That raw sense of immaturity will definitely be reflected, but you'll feel a lot more power out of the ST. The SI will feel like a damn hammer than you can throw around without breaking.

As for a picture of me..........does it need to be motivating? or noodz? Which one will provide the best adrenaline rush to keep you hammering down in those corners?

Doesn't that kill down low torque and RUIN your gas mileage?

I always thought 4,000 was a good place to kick it in, I usually never touch that range unless I'm up to no good.

Most certainly. But its also gutted and Auto-X'd ALOT! You don't need tons of torque for that. Depending on your tuning, you could account for the added air and mix the ratio a little better for MPGs......

4000-4500 is perfect. Normal cruising is roughly 2500RPM shift points.

Unfortunately no. I've driven a number of b series equiped cars but not a B16B or a B18C (ITR). Those things are legitimately racing engines in street cars.



The sounds that come from my GTI are pretty disappointing. It kinda sounds like a diesel at idle, then the soundaktor takes over....

B16 and B18 are absolute monsters. Much love for them here.

And definitely agree with the GTI sounds.

 

[grambles423]

Let's put it this way.....a 3.5L DI V6 MDX sounds much better at WOT AND has quieter injector clicks.

 

[Gunkata]

Beiber hair in full effect, plaid shirt, 4x6 photo, that I will carry in my pocket till the day I die.

 

[maxtdi]

Beiber hair in full effect, plaid shirt, 4x6 photo, that I will carry in my pocket till the day I die.

:wub:
















No homo

 

[Noize]

I've never been a fan of the 9th gen Si since the day it was announced. It's a "performance" trim of a vehicle that was designed with everything but performance in mind.

The only reason the 9th has a K24 is because Honda was too lazy/cheap to develop a performance engine that could meet economy/emissions requirements. So they grabbed an engine with similar power to the K20 from the shelf, threw it in there, and that's that.

Beside the K24Z7 being a long-stroke 4-banger (which has always been the basic template for building an economy engine), it contains other design features/compromises that purposely inhibit its performance, most notably the integrated exhaust manifold.

The K20Z3 isn't a purpose-built racing engine by any means. Afterall, it's a Honda K-series, which at its core is an engine family that was designed to perform a multitude of roles. But it's a fine engine in any form. However, while it may not be a racing engine, the K20Z3 is a pretty close copy thereof. Not bad, considering its roots.

In the K24Z7, on the other hand, the specific goal was economy. The 9th gen Si is the only car in which it serves as the "performance" option, and to me, that illustrates an attitude of sheer laziness and contempt on Honda's part, from engineering to marketing. If there had been a 2nd-gen S2000, and it came with a detuned version of the Accord V6, S2000 owners would be up in arms (in fact, many of them were, when Honda bumped the displacement to 2200cc).

Parts-bin performance that barely outperforms its predecessor, which at the time was still slow compared to the competition. The worst part is how they market it like a breakfast cereal ("Now with 30% more torque!"). As if no one would notice that they just stuck a slightly hopped-up Accord 4-cylinder in it, and called it a day. Sorry, but as a car enthusiast, it's an insult.

Big deal, it has 170ft/lbs of torque. Last I checked that still wasn't a lot. If torque was something I was looking for, I wouldn't be buying a N/A 4 banger to begin with.

DATS MAH BOYEEEEEEee!
Dude, I've been yellin this shat since the day I heard the Si is getting neutered with the K24. It is a complete insult. No revs, no more performance motor, no VTEC on the exhaust side, and ricer VTEC lights. Fail, fail, fail.

With the retirement of the S2000 and the complete neutering of the Civic Si, Honda is dead to me until I see a real performance car on their lot again.

 

[adolan21]

DATS MAH BOYEEEEEEee!
Dude, I've been yellin this shat since the day I heard the Si is getting neutered with the K24. It is a complete insult. No revs, no more performance motor, no VTEC on the exhaust side, and ricer VTEC lights. Fail, fail, fail.

With the retirement of the S2000 and the complete neutering of the Civic Si, Honda is dead to me until I see a real performance car on their lot again.

I agree that the K24 isn't the most race inspired engine ever but it doesn't have to be. It has more torque than the K20 which is was everyone was bitching and moaning about. I agree they could have possibly done more with it but it is not a bad engine. During the 9th Gen Si's development, which I imagine started 4 to 5 years ago, Grambles let me know if I am wrong, the economy was in the shitter and they had no idea where the market was heading. There is only so much they can do with a NA motor that meets all of todays emissions and isn't crazy expensive to make. There's really no point in comparing the S2000 with the Si since it started at what 10K more than the cost of an Si today. Would I like to see more power in the Si? Of course I would but it's not like it's the slowest car in the world. I mean it's on par or pretty close to the GTI in terms of 0-60 like that really matters anyway. I imagine they are going to add direct injection to the K24 in the Si eventually so that should boost it to what around 210hp and maybe 190 ft/lbs, which would be a welcome addition.

 

[Noize]

I agree that the K24 isn't the most race inspired engine ever but it doesn't have to be. It has more torque than the K20 which is was everyone was bitching and moaning about. I agree they could have possibly done more with it but it is not a bad engine. During the 9th Gen Si's development, which I imagine started 4 to 5 years ago, Grambles let me know if I am wrong, the economy was in the shitter and they had no idea where the market was heading. There is only so much they can do with a NA motor that meets all of todays emissions and isn't crazy expensive to make. There's really no point in comparing the S2000 with the Si since it started at what 10K more than the cost of an Si today. Would I like to see more power in the Si? Of course I would but it's not like it's the slowest car in the world. I mean it's on par or pretty close to the GTI in terms of 0-60 like that really matters anyway. I imagine they are going to add direct injection to the K24 in the Si eventually so that should boost it to what around 210hp and maybe 190 ft/lbs, which would be a welcome addition.

In a world where these cars are kept stock, what you say makes sense. If you drive a stock Si, you probably don't really care about performance cars, or you're in an autox class that won't let you modify anything. Torque doesn't do much for FWD except make it tough to manage at low speed. Every person with a stage 1 and above GTI can attest to that.

You have to understand that guys like BlownFa5 are pissed because one of the best if not _the best_ performance four cylinder engine has been put out to pasture, and the replacement doesn't hold a candle ot it. I have a friend with an RSX-S with very mild cams, stock valvetrain, full exhaust and a tune, and it traps 103mph in the quarter mile, revs to 9100rpm, and will run away from a stage 2 GTI. And that's just a light NA setup, imagine a good boosted K20's capabilities! Those kind of accomplishments are just not gonna happen in a K24, as it's not a performance engine in the least.

Honda neutered the Si before, with the EP hatch. They thought the hatch was what killed sales, but people went running to the RSX-S because it had an extra 40HP, VTEC on both camshafts, and 1200 more rpm potential. They thought bringing back the coupe and the sedan saved sales, but the performance is what got people buying the Civic Si again. Now, here we are again twelve years later, but with no performance variant offered. The 2012 was received poorly and is regarded as a dismal car, so they've tried to really tart it up for 2013, but didn't address the most important part.

I don't agree with Grambles where he says nobody will give Honda another chance. Between my wife and I, we've owned 6 Hondas, four of them new. I'd come back if they'd get their head out of their butts from an R&D and design standpoint, but they've alienated their performance car customer base completely. Platform sharing and profit completely trumps innovation now, and I get that, really I do, but why not have both? Nissan and Toyota have crazy platform sharing, but at least there is some innovation, performance, and life in their lines. Nissan understands the benefit of a halo car and a dedicated sports car. The Toyabaru proves that you can have a budget sports car. Mazda has a sports car. Mitsubishi and Subaru have rally car DNA in a few of their cars with crazy performance, and the aforementioned BRZ. Honda doesnt have jack. And that's not coming from a hater. That's coming from a customer they abandoned because my demographic is too small. Worse, everything including styling has become so cookie cutter on the Honda and Acura side, that the only reason to buy now is reliability.

 

[MBorVW]

I loved my 2006 Si coupe. Best manual tranny ever IMO. Revving that engine was a blast and handling was amazing. Then Honda started making appliances. Excited for the next gen if they can actually make it exciting to look at.

 

[maxtdi]

I still don't get what the point is in chasing these famed engines from the past... there is nothing impressive about a 2 liter 4 banger with 200hp... Yet ppl are so hung up on the damn thing

Face it guys most ppl don't modify their cars period, so it doesn't matter If "my boy made 500whp at 25psi for 5000 miles and nothing broke, honda is a beast"

None of that shit is even smog legal in the biggest market (california) so really... we're just blowing up a bunch of smoke here...

 

[grambles423]

In a world where these cars are kept stock, what you say makes sense. If you drive a stock Si, you probably don't really care about performance cars, or you're in an autox class that won't let you modify anything. Torque doesn't do much for FWD except make it tough to manage at low speed. Every person with a stage 1 and above GTI can attest to that.

Stock for Stock it performs in a great spectrum of what is currently offered. However, how can ask an OEM company to design a car solely for the aftermarket? You simply cannot. Especially when that is a high volume car, and a FRACTION of the sales are its performance trim.

You have to understand that guys like BlownFa5 are pissed because one of the best if not _the best_ performance four cylinder engine has been put out to pasture, and the replacement doesn't hold a candle ot it. I have a friend with an RSX-S with very mild cams, stock valvetrain, full exhaust and a tune, and it traps 103mph in the quarter mile, revs to 9100rpm, and will run away from a stage 2 GTI. And that's just a light NA setup, imagine a good boosted K20's capabilities! Those kind of accomplishments are just not gonna happen in a K24, as it's not a performance engine in the least.

Again, not designed for the aftermarket. You're essentially asking Honda to make enough headroom for tuners to test its limits AND be held accountable for it.

Anyone can spend any money on their car and make it faster than the next. The logic behind comparing a fully decked out K20 motor against a stock K24 is very short sighted with no real agenda except to fault Honda's progress.

FACT. Stock for stock this 2013 SI is better than all of its predecessors. Allow the market to grow, and you'll see some good power made from it.

And for the record, whoever mentioned it in this thread, the Accord 4cyl (189hp) and the SI K24 are two completely different motors.

Honda neutered the Si before, with the EP hatch. They thought the hatch was what killed sales, but people went running to the RSX-S because it had an extra 40HP, VTEC on both camshafts, and 1200 more rpm potential. They thought bringing back the coupe and the sedan saved sales, but the performance is what got people buying the Civic Si again. Now, here we are again twelve years later, but with no performance variant offered. The 2012 was received poorly and is regarded as a dismal car, so they've tried to really tart it up for 2013, but didn't address the most important part.

Again, 2013 is not a netured SI. its the best one yet. Again, expectation of design for the aftermarket..........

And also, again, you cannot scrap a platform only after 1 year. You cannot develop another engine in a year. If anything, Honda is trying to get by right now in preparation for what's to come.

I don't agree with Grambles where he says nobody will give Honda another chance. Between my wife and I, we've owned 6 Hondas, four of them new. I'd come back if they'd get their head out of their butts from an R&D and design standpoint, but they've alienated their performance car customer base completely. Platform sharing and profit completely trumps innovation now, and I get that, really I do, but why not have both? Nissan and Toyota have crazy platform sharing, but at least there is some innovation, performance, and life in their lines. Nissan understands the benefit of a halo car and a dedicated sports car. The Toyabaru proves that you can have a budget sports car. Mazda has a sports car. Mitsubishi and Subaru have rally car DNA in a few of their cars with crazy performance, and the aforementioned BRZ. Honda doesnt have jack. And that's not coming from a hater. That's coming from a customer they abandoned because my demographic is too small. Worse, everything including styling has become so cookie cutter on the Honda and Acura side, that the only reason to buy now is reliability.

Honda isn't lazy. Honda is hoarding at this moment.

 

[grambles423]

I still don't get what the point is in chasing these famed engines from the past... there is nothing impressive about a 2 liter 4 banger with 200hp... Yet ppl are so hung up on the damn thing

Face it guys most ppl don't modify their cars period, so it doesn't matter If "my boy made 500whp at 25psi for 5000 miles and nothing broke, honda is a beast"

None of that shit is even smog legal in the biggest market (california) so really... we're just blowing up a bunch of smoke here...

Looks like someone gets it.