2.0t HPFP swap on 1.8t

[xvibes]

MPI is dated technology. The only reason cars make the power they do today is because of DI. Adding more to the MPI or adding it to a car that doesn’t have it is just an inexpensive option vs upgrading the DI. So the cost is the only reason guys do it. A used 2.0 hpfp and vacuum pump is only around $100-150 usd. It is not just allowing more fuel, it’s increasing the pressure by 60+bar. That swap alone on an is20 1.8 netted over 20whp and 30wtq average and peak over the stock hpfp. On larger turbos and higher horsepower cars it’s probably more. So yeah you can get more fueling and power with mpi, but you are leaving power on the table for such a simple upgrade. No other hardware adds that much power per dollar. So yes to mpi and more ethanol, but definitely yes to the 2.0 hpfp as well.

Exactly why I bought the hpfp. Less than 200$ fitted...only took 30min or so, I had planned everything. Wiring, bolts, new seal, special cloth fabric tape (Tesa 51026 https://www.tesa.com/en/industry/tesa-51026.html ) etc.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/323830774828
You can see I made a "Y" harness so I can swap between pumps

ps. Stock 1.8 hpfp can go up to 200bar (2900psi) but its not working properly at that rate. (its rated at 180bar)

 

[jimlloyd40]

The only reason MPI has gone away is because with GDI they can more precisely control the fuel system for power and efficiency and emissions . And of course the downside is the valves get carboned up. VW had it correct by having both in Europe but finally cut the cost by eliminating MPI.

 

[MonkeyMD]

Yeap I know but no dealer as far as I know anywhere near me. T

Ι have also thought about that, I dont even have to swap to larger injectors (dont plan to go big just squeeze a few extra hp from the IS38).
I believe stock MPI is ok for a few extra ponnies. Actually I know a tuner that claims to do that, maybe I'll go down this route.

Try etuners. I think they've done a few pretty high hp 1.8's

 

[TwinDad]

Xvibes' car already has mpi. The best thing for Xvibes to do would be to upgrade the port injectors. Nobody with mpi upgrades their hpfp. Jeff at UM doesn't tell people with the 1.8t to upgrade their hpfp on top of adding mpi. Ed doesn't tell people to run an upgraded hpfp with mpi. A hpfp upgrade is useless for Xvibes. if MPI is a dated technology how come it is the key to making big power on the gen3 motors? A hpfp upgrade is only worth it on gen3 1.8t cars that do not come with mpi from the factory and that have very little tuning support.

These guys are also used to tuning the 2.0 when it goes mpi. Those engines already have a superior hpfp. The one thing I noticed was every 1.8 that is tuned for mpi is making far less power than they should be compared to a 2.0 with the same mods. The 1.8 hpfp does not flow nearly as much or make anywhere close to the same pressure. That additional pressure is free horsepower sitting on the table. The tuners just approach the 1.8 with the same mentality as a 2.0 and overlook this. Reflect saw the difference and made it work. With no other changes to the tune than just the hpfp upgrade, an is20 gold picked up ~20whp and 30wtq. It wasn’t just peak, it was across the range. So now let’s apply that to a 400+ whp car instead of a 300. There is easily 30+whp and torque in just the hpfp upgrade on a larger turbo car. My hpfp and vacuum pump cost around $100 from eBay.de. It’s a 20 minute install and I picked up 20/30 at the wheels with the tune for it. I don’t think it’s the tuners knowledge, it’s just that the 1.8 is always secondary to the 2.0 and nine of them really thought about it or care enough to think about it. I would guarantee that adding it to a bigger turbo car will produce positive results that they are all overlooking

 

[TwinDad]

Also, a car with a higher flowing DI system will outperform an equally modded mpi system all day long. The best is to run both, but the di portion of it is what’s allowing the power levels to be achieved. The additional mpi is just supplying the additional fueling needed. In a less efficient and effective way. The only downside of DI is the carbon. Everywhere else it is superior. It is the reason cars today are making more power than 10 years ago

 

[dcgtimk7]

These guys are also used to tuning the 2.0 when it goes mpi. Those engines already have a superior hpfp. The one thing I noticed was every 1.8 that is tuned for mpi is making far less power than they should be compared to a 2.0 with the same mods. The 1.8 hpfp does not flow nearly as much or make anywhere close to the same pressure. That additional pressure is free horsepower sitting on the table. The tuners just approach the 1.8 with the same mentality as a 2.0 and overlook this. Reflect saw the difference and made it work. With no other changes to the tune than just the hpfp upgrade, an is20 gold picked up ~20whp and 30wtq. It wasn’t just peak, it was across the range. So now let’s apply that to a 400+ whp car instead of a 300. There is easily 30+whp and torque in just the hpfp upgrade on a larger turbo car. My hpfp and vacuum pump cost around $100 from eBay.de. It’s a 20 minute install and I picked up 20/30 at the wheels with the tune for it. I don’t think it’s the tuners knowledge, it’s just that the 1.8 is always secondary to the 2.0 and nine of them really thought about it or care enough to think about it. I would guarantee that adding it to a bigger turbo car will produce positive results that they are all overlooking

The lower hp isn't just due to the hpfp. The 1.8t here has "economy cams" compared to the gti and r. Xvibes’ car will gain more from an injector upgrade than a hpfp upgrade.Plus Xvibes' polo has valvelift and vvt on the exhaust cam. If your logic is right why don't other tuners recommend people to upgrade their hpfp when they add port injection? Your logic is flawed.A hpfp upgrade for Xvibes is pointless. Any high hp di car will run out fuel and will need port injection. Xvibes’ car already has dual injection the most logical upgrade would be to upgrade the stock port injectors. I’m sure any tuner in Europe will tell Xvibes to upgrade the port injectors over upgrading the hpfp. A hpfp upgrade works on your car because nobody really supports it and it doesn't have good fueling or good cams. Plus its more cost effective for you to upgrade the hpfp. For the ea888 the pi is what allows our cars to make 500whp+ it isn't the di system. Iroz doesn't tell ims gen3 guys to upgrade their hpfp and di injectors. Iroz and Unitronic also don't tell the owners of 2.5 daza/dnwa mqbs to upgrade their di system. You really don't know what you are talking about. If the gen2 ea888 with valvelift had port injection it would be a superior motor to the gen3 since it doesn’t have the integrated exhaust header which kills flow. Jeff at um had a proflex 1.8t sportwagen with a hybrid turbo, upgraded intake manifold, upgraded lpfp and mpi as a daily. I think he knows the 1.8t pretty well. You really can't compare the neutered 1.8t vwoa put in your car to the 1.8t in the polo gti. Any vw/audi tuner that is tuning a car with direct and port injection standard will tell the car's owner to upgrade the port injectors instead of upgrading the hpfp when the car needs more fueling. None of the row gen3 2.0t owners with direct and port injection stock upgrade their hpfp when they need more fueling.

 

[TwinDad]

Blah, blah, blah, blah. It’s 50 bar more pressure. It works tremendously. Mpi is way, way cheaper than DI. It’s also harder to tune larger DI injectors. They are working with limited tuning platforms because they don’t write there own tunes. So due to that and the cost of what a proper DI would cost, they go mpi. Plus the 2.0 already had a good hpfp, so they don’t do it.
As far as why he didn’t put the larger hpfp in his sportwagen was because he didn’t know how to make it work. I got 20 questions from them on how mine was doing it when my car was at A2B.
Yes Xvibes would benefit from larger mpi injectors and an lpfp, he would also benefit from the lpfp. If it didn’t work, my heavy, automatic sportwagen wouldn’t be as fast as it is

 

[dcgtimk7]

Blah, blah, blah, blah. It’s 50 bar more pressure. It works tremendously. Mpi is way, way cheaper than DI. It’s also harder to tune larger DI injectors. They are working with limited tuning platforms because they don’t write there own tunes. So due to that and the cost of what a proper DI would cost, they go mpi. Plus the 2.0 already had a good hpfp, so they don’t do it.
As far as why he didn’t put the larger hpfp in his sportwagen was because he didn’t know how to make it work. I got 20 questions from them on how mine was doing it when my car was at A2B.
Yes Xvibes would benefit from larger mpi injectors and an lpfp, he would also benefit from the lpfp. If it didn’t work, my heavy, automatic sportwagen wouldn’t be as fast as it is

You really hate being wrong don't you? Like your tuner writes his "own" tunes. Has he set any records? Nope. You were giving someone with a significantly different motor than you the wrong advice. You should stop being an armchair expert. Nobody really makes larger di injectors for the ea888 anyway. The nostrum injectors haven't shown much promise. Your wagon isn't even fast. You are mostly just jealous of other gen3s that have way more support so you act like a know it all online. I'm glad you've come to your senses and have realized that the best fueling upgrade for Xvibes at the moment would be to upgrade the port injectors and not the hpfp.

 

[TwinDad]

Have you priced the Nostrum injectors. Now for the tuning platform to control them correctly. MPI is like 1/3 the price and easier. It’s plain and simple. That being said, the 1.8 hpfp is still inferior and should be upgraded.
Go search the MK6 records. Especially when he big turbo GLI ones

 

[dcgtimk7]

Have you priced the Nostrum injectors. Now for the tuning platform to control them correctly. MPI is like 1/3 the price and easier. It’s plain and simple. That being said, the 1.8 hpfp is still inferior and should be upgraded.
Go search the MK6 records. Especially when he big turbo GLI ones

Yeah I have. https://www.uspmotorsports.com/Nost...ljIT9B7cPO58RiwwSfcF08hoyIFfceghoCGKgQAvD_BwE. It isn't super expensive when you price out what you need to convert a di only car to mpi. Most people like myself got intake manifolds that are pre drilled since the stock manifold is prone to cracking when you drill out the port injection holes yourself. Eqt sells their mpi ready manifolds for 200 bucks. I got my mpi ready manifold off ebay. My mpi manifold came off a euro passat. I paid $150 for the manifold. So when you add that to the price of the mpi kit cts/precisionraceworks/a2b sell it comes out being more expensive than the nostrum di injectors. A hpfp upgrade may be worth it for you but it isn't worth for a car that already has port and direct injection. A car with dual injection can just upgrade their port injectors.

 

[danbfree]

Having DI w/MPI also is like what we called on other platforms "aux fuel" so it can be utilized and tuned for as well as keeping your intake valves clean. The Ecoboost platform actually has Aux fuel kits to get around fueling limitations which would require require HPFP,LPFP and injector upgrades AND tuning vs. a simpler single or quad aux fuel rail with tuning.

 

[zwalk]

Sorry to resurrect this thread, I will need a 2.0 vacuum pump as well with the HPFP correct?

 

[dcgtimk7]

Sorry to resurrect this thread, I will need a 2.0 vacuum pump as well with the HPFP correct?

Yeah if you want to head down that route. Who is tuning your sportwagen?

 

[zwalk]

Yeah if you want to head down that route. Who is tuning your sportwagen?

Its EQT, I am on my base tune for the custom route, I either had a boost cut or a fuel cut this morning. Leaning toward it being fuel as I got no codes so I was debating HPFP out of a GTi. I for some reason thought I could just drop the little HPFP in there, the vacuum pump seems more complicated and prone to leaking so id rather not mess with it

 

[dcgtimk7]

Its EQT, I am on my base tune for the custom route, I either had a boost cut or a fuel cut this morning. Leaning toward it being fuel as I got no codes so I was debating HPFP out of a GTi. I for some reason thought I could just drop the little HPFP in there, the vacuum pump seems more complicated and prone to leaking so id rather not mess with it

Just add mpi instead if you're eqt tuned. Yeah you can't just swap over the gti hpfp you need the vaccum pump as well.