0W-20 VW 508/508 oil analysis/comparison

[CamarosRus]

https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants...s/our-products/products/mobil-1-esp-x2-0w-20/

 

[GOLF NUTT]

Just called Gunther. They said Castrol 5w40 in the GTI. Think it’s dealer specific.

*saw good old Rotella T6 finally rebranded. Loved that stuff in my MKV and WRX. M1 used to sheer down really bad in the Florida heat. Guess it’s changed maybe

When will VW and VW dealers get there shirt together when it comes to oil?

 

[dequardo]

It’s their. What is your exact complaint?

 

[GOLF NUTT]

It’s their. What is your exact complaint?

NO complaint I do most of my own service.
And yes I use the 508.00 0W20 oil.
First time when I went to the local dealer parts dept.
they tried to sell me 502.00 5W oil.
Just saying.

 

[dequardo]

Understand. ‘Trust but verify.’

 

[TheMechanicDude]

Looking forward to doing my own changes. Stupid I know but I’ve always glad the dealer change when under warranty. It’ll also give them a chance to fix my rear speaker under the bump to bump

 

[Jeffs2013GTI]

@nonegiven did you look at the graphs linked on OP? If so, why would you say what you said? If not, you should look at them, especially HTHS graph.

I do not use 0w20 in my car and would not recommend anyone does in a tuned and performance vehicle. I use 0w40 FS Mobil 1 oil, and I do not have a link to oil analysis. I know how inaccurate and pointless the tests are because I have some chem/med training so don’t waste my money on it.

I did however read and research independent oil testing analyses similar to one linked and can tell you that Amsoil SS, Quaker SUD Dexos2, Mobil 1 FS are among the best oils you can readily buy in stores. I use FS cuz I want 40 weight oil otherwise I’d use Quaker SUD Dexos2 which is cheaper or Amsoil SS in 30w.

What have you got to contribute except your random thought which isn’t congruent w data presented in this thread. You didn’t even recommend an oil, just shot down the 2nd best HTHS performer, according to data in this thread.

A tuned performance vehicle? So a stock GTI isn't considered a "performance" vehicle? On this one I think the VW engineers know more than we do. Yes they have to meet many requirements but I seriously doubt they world recommend an oil that would cause catastrophic engine failure
I ran a 5w30 oil in my Evo 9 MR that made 400whp. Drove it like that for 5 yrs with zero issues and that was even being at the track every other weekend.
Only time I would switch recommend grades of oil is if I had my engine built and the person who built it recommend a different oil. Other than that show me failures due to oil related failures....oh wait a second you won't be able to

 

[Jeffs2013GTI]

You're obviously struggling here so I'll try to help you out. ONLY 0w20 oils were tested. The fact that you use 0w40 and base your Mobil 1 recommendation off of that fact is ridiculous when it comes to 508 0w20 oils and shows how little you understand about tribology.

Just so we are all on the same page you all know Mobil provides the 508 oil for VAG in North America... Castrol must have lost the bid

 

[jimlloyd40]

A tuned performance vehicle? So a stock GTI isn't considered a "performance" vehicle? On this one I think the VW engineers know more than we do. Yes they have to meet many requirements but I seriously doubt they world recommend an oil that would cause catastrophic engine failure
I ran a 5w30 oil in my Evo 9 MR that made 400whp. Drove it like that for 5 yrs with zero issues and that was even being at the track every other weekend.
Only time I would switch recommend grades of oil is if I had my engine built and the person who built it recommend a different oil. Other than that show me failures due to oil related failures....oh wait a second you won't be able to

The guy you quoted was banned over a year ago.

 

[Jeffs2013GTI]

The guy you quoted was banned over a year ago.

Ok Thanks now I see why spreading BS.
Thanks for letting me know

 

[Nineeightyone]

Man this is a lot of information to take in, I should just go back to my 8v that'll run on vinegar and spite

Really though, is there a reason to stay away from offerings like the Liqui-Moly? Is the Mobil 1 0w20 officially 508 rated? I tend to put it in my other cars, but they're a little more complacent than the GTI. Or, I'm a little more paranoid about the GTI. I did the Top Tec 6200 for my last oil change, but I've been learning all sorts of things that I didn't know, about different specs and tolerances and whatnot. Can anyone break down the information here into something a little more newbie-friendly?

 

[Jeffs2013GTI]

Man this is a lot of information to take in, I should just go back to my 8v that'll run on vinegar and spite

Really though, is there a reason to stay away from offerings like the Liqui-Moly? Is the Mobil 1 0w20 officially 508 rated? I tend to put it in my other cars, but they're a little more complacent than the GTI. Or, I'm a little more paranoid about the GTI. I did the Top Tec 6200 for my last oil change, but I've been learning all sorts of things that I didn't know, about different specs and tolerances and whatnot. Can anyone break down the information here into something a little more newbie-friendly?

I will give you m y ten cents on this. First, type of oil, and type of gas people like to run in their cars? OMG its a fight you will never win. Many people have their own personal experiences, and some think that because the oil costs more or if its from Germany its "better" oil or something. All of this is BS.

I have learned allot over the years. I began in the early 90's modding Honda's, then in the late 90's found forced induction through the way of Mitsubishi's. In the Early 2000's when I began to actually autocross and take SCCA Solo II more seriously after buying an Evo 8 in 2003. Then moved up to an Evo 9, Evo 9 MR and a X. The Evo I tracked the most was my 9 MR. I daily drove that car and tracked it almost every weekend for 5 yrs. About a month after I bought it new in 2006 I did all the bolt on's and made a respectable 360awhp, or about 400HP at the crank on 91 pump. I ran my car like that for 5 yrs. I was in the mindset of this oil is better for this, this gas is better for that, and ironically, I stuck with the same 30w oil that Mitsubishi recommended seeing ZERO differences on the track with temps or anything.

One day while at Willow Springs, I am guessing this was around 2007 or 2008, I met a Mitsubishi Rep that worked in Cypress and a Product Engineer. He saw me parked in the well guess you can call it a "pit" area. I had my hood up, was checking tire pressures and this guy starts talking shop about my Evo. He was asking about the mods I did and why, and tuning and why. After finding out who he was (I have his business card still somewhere) I asked him about Oil and Gas and what not. It was interesting to hear his perspective. Basically, if your running stock internals? Run the specified Fluid that OEM wants. If you have a built motor? like a 2.2 or 2.4 stroker? Then go with what the builder recommends.

So hear is the deal. VW engineers know this car better than ANYONE. Yes they have certain criteria to meet. Reliability, longevity, and Fuel Economy. They study what works, then put out what they find out to bid to whatever oil company can produce said oil. To think, that you know better than they do? Because you spent a day reading an article at "Bob is the Oil Guy" or "My buddy says" is ridiculous. When VW switched over from a 40w oil (like my MK6 used VW 502) to the newer 0w20 or 508 they made some changes. Oil pump, Piston rings, and such were designed for use with this new lighter viscosity oil. You really have to have an understanding on how oil viscosity works, and how it applies to certain applications. Don't' forget some race cars out there run a 10w oil or even a 16w. Granted they rebuild there motors all the time, but they would with whatever weight oil was being used. The fact that the lighter viscosity lowers wear, easier cold starts and better fuel economy? Its a no brainer. To think that by doing this makes your engine not as reliable? or more prone to wear? Simply isn't true. People are just going off old school racing tech and think heavier viscosities are the ticket. If you are on track and your oil temps are going up? Best thing to do is get an external oil cooler, not change your viscosity of oil.

Brand of oil also is BS. The car needs a certain spec THATS IT. Why am I going to spend $15 a qt for Motul or AMSOIL plus shipping when I can go to VW 2 miles from my house and buy the VW (Mobil 1) oil for $8.15 a qt? Its all marketing folks. To say if I use Motul or Amsoil or whatever is going to make my engine last longer or whatever is all MARKETING. I learned that the hard way by wasting money on my Evo's. Stick to what the manufacturer recommends.

Now I am going to get flamed for this I am sure, because you know, there are people out on these forums that have more than the 20 yrs racing experience and actual hands on experience more than me, and they have their opinions that's cool. But for those 99% that just go by what they read, or go by "my buddy thats a this said" I don't listen. 99% of GTI owners will never need anything more than the standard 508 oil you can buy at the dealer, or over the counter if you can find it somewhere else. There are circumstances where you would need a change. When? As I mentioned, if you have your engine built and the engine builder recommends a different viscosity due to changes made to the block, or anything else that may require it. Other than that? As I mentioned, if you want cooler temps? Get an external Oil Cooler, and if your stock? Definitely only need 508. Tuned? Go with an external Oil Cooler.

It all comes down to how you treat your car, and how you maintain it. Try not to buy into that 1% that does this or that and recommends this or that? Why? because 99% of the time you just don't need it and your wasting your money.

I won't say anymore on the subject. Learn from other people's mistakes and save your money. Keep it simple folks.

Jeff

 

[krvnked]

I think it's funny that people insist the manual's information that came with your car is incorrect

 

[Nineeightyone]

Thanks @Jeffs2013GTI, that makes it FAR easier to process the information provided. A large reason I went with the Liqui-moly was due to the ease of buying two containers versus 6, and it being offered by Urotuning in a kit, with a new drain plug and an oil filter I trust (Mann).

I think you're absolutely correct, I'm good for overthinking things. It's my first GTI, and the GTI overall has been my dream car since I was ~14 -- I'm now 31 -- so I'm trying to do everything right, to take as good care of the car as I can. I'm looking at a tune in the future, and I'll discuss with the tuner what changes from factory recommendations I'll need to do, but otherwise following the manual seems to be the smart move. Thank you again for the information!

 

[tigeo]

It's not about thinking VW doesn't know what they are talking about or not believing the sticker under the hood or owner's manual w/r to the approvals required of the oil ran in your car. It's a lot of folks doing independent research on oil spedificaitons including HTHS etc. and seeing that the new VW508 00 oils (that are all 0W20) may not provide the best protection under more servere conditions as either the older VW502 00 oils (mostly 5W40) and the newer VW504 00 oils (mostly 5W30s and always backwards compatible with VW502 00). The engine itself hasn't changed, only the oil approval required which also gets folks all worked up. I have a 1.8 MQB car (Sportwagen) that calls for 502 so easy for me. Only the 2.0 MQBs in the GTI/GLI get the 508 oils; the R still holds out and gets 504 called for. Also, in general, folks don't really get the "0W" bit and think this equals water. I've even heard someone say they would never run 0W40..ahahahah. 0W and 5W are the same for all intents/purposes unless it way below zero. I would not feel comfortable running 508 oil in my car if it called for it based on my modifications and use. Will your car blow up b/c of it? Probably not but why run the risk if you are a "keep forever" owner like me? If you are a trade it in/part it out every 2 years then sure, fuck it.